VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner
  • Rejoining the VWVortex Community - Please review the following thread: Here

41 - 60 of 397 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,389 Posts
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the possibility that this is a conspiracy against Ghosn. As an outsider, promoted to CEO of a Japanese corporation, it wouldn't be surprising that he has made a lot of enemies along the way. Some senior Nissan execs could have framed him and made him look guilty, especially if a bunch of high ranking execs worked together to oust him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
Everything that has happened since Ghosn's initial arrest has made me considered his claims of innocence more.

Last summer, if I had posted a theory that taking Ghosn out of the picture would have caused FCA to approach Renault and shake up two of the industries largest alliances, it would have sounded like conspiracy talk. But just look at how much money is up in the air just because accusations were made against a few people.

As others have said, none of the financial dealings seem that out of the ordinary to me. While preemptively trapping Ghosn seems unlikely, going in after the fact and changing the paper trail to make him look guilty seems just as likely to me as Ghosn actually committing the embezzlement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,523 Posts
What can't be unseen.


:laugh:
LOL

Too true dat iz.

Phantasy the plane,
the pplane.
Boss!

Hey,
I need an encapsulated summary here as I was distracted early on by Sporin quoting the nik 'o jalop article wherein it was stated:

...replaced by former head of Daimler’s Smart brand Annette Winkler...
and I went immediately off topic in my brain by conjuring up Beach Blanket Bingo plus The Fonzie:



+



Poppish cult for test tube teevee up th twitter,
like not guilty your officer,
or vive Franco.

In short,
I could care less.

But,
if new A110 came USA,
then I would care more.

Much much more.

Crub my burshes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,794 Posts
WSJ is paywalled for me so:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/30/ous...st-in-tokyo-lands-in-lebanon-reports-say.html

CNBC said:
Ousted Nissan Chairman Carlos Ghosn reportedly flees house arrest in Tokyo for Lebanon
Published Mon, Dec 30 20194:24 PM ESTUpdated an hour ago

Carlos Ghosn, Nissan’s ousted chairman who was awaiting trial on criminal charges in Japan, flew into Lebanon on Monday evening, France’s Les Echos newspaper reported.

The newspaper cited its own unnamed source and a report in Lebanese newspaper L’Orient-Le Jour. There was no immediate confirmation from official sources. Whether Ghosn has struck a deal with prosecutors or fled is unknown.

The Financial Times also reported that Ghosn was in Lebanon, according to a source close to his family and “a professional associate.”

Ghosn’s attorney did not have an immediate comment, but a person close to Ghosn who asked not to be identified confirmed he was in Beirut as of Monday.

Japanese public broadcaster NHK said it spoke to a member of Ghosn’s defence team and that the lawyer was unaware the former Nissan executive may have left Japan and would confirm whether it is true. The broadcaster also said prosecutors were not aware Ghosn may be outside the country and are seeking confirmation.

A spokesman for the Tokyo prosecutors office had no immediate comment to Reuters and officials at the Lebanese embassy in Tokyo could not be reached to comment. A Nissan spokesman in Tokyo declined to comment.
The Japanese government treated him so badly in terms of holding him without charges, refusing him legal counsel, and other basic human rights violations that I can't even blame him. It was at best accounting fraud, and potentially it was basically just a sloppy attempt at creative tax benefits for his income. The way Japan / Nissan has gone about things though was just bad. I get that he very much did something he wasn't supposed to have, but he wasn't getting justice in Japan as it was so I don't blame him for skipping out once the opportunity apparently presented itself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,794 Posts
Oh, and separately, Lebanon wanted to extradite Ghosn way back in 2018 to face charges anyway so I'm not sure this was a bail-jump. Lebanon may have simply gotten a hold of him to face trial on home soil, so to speak. Still, I suspect Ghosn, a Lebanese citizen, will get a more fair trial in his home country than he would in Japan.

EDIT: He issued a statement

Carlos Ghosn said:
I am now in Lebanon and will no longer be held hostage by a rigged Japanese justice system where guilt is presumed, discrimination is rampant, and basic human rights are denied, in flagrant disregard of Japan’s legal obligations under international law and treaties it is bound to uphold.

I have not fled justice — I have escaped injustice and political persecution. I can now finally communicate freely with the media, and look forward to starting next week.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,730 Posts
LOL!!


Good for him for escaping the kangaroo court. This whole thing was a absolute hit job from the beginning.

If there was any doubt he is a BAMF, escaping under the cover of dark, to his homeland with no extradition treaty seals the deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
Hmmm, if Ghosn felt so strongly about the Japanese judicial system why did he set up shop and live there for almost 20 years? What changed? I mean, I wouldn't go to China, Russia or North Korea to run a multinational firm in any of those countries. Why? because the law is malleable (or non-existent) and I simply don't trust I'd get a fair trial should things go south. But Ghosn was in Japan for decades and said nothing about the judicial system until he found himself on the wrong side. It'll be interesting what Lebanon does. We know he won't go to France (wants to maintain good relations with Japan/Nissan) or Brazil (could be sent straight back to Tokyo and transit areas may hold him hostage) so Ghosn may as well enjoy whatever freedom Lebanon offers because he's not going anywhere. Also, he's forfeited his bail money and compensation from Nissan. Finally, fleeing gives off a strong guilty stench so nobody is going to believe him.

WSJ is paywalled for me so:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/30/ous...st-in-tokyo-lands-in-lebanon-reports-say.html



The Japanese government treated him so badly in terms of holding him without charges, refusing him legal counsel, and other basic human rights violations that I can't even blame him. It was at best accounting fraud, and potentially it was basically just a sloppy attempt at creative tax benefits for his income. The way Japan / Nissan has gone about things though was just bad. I get that he very much did something he wasn't supposed to have, but he wasn't getting justice in Japan as it was so I don't blame him for skipping out once the opportunity apparently presented itself.
Accounting fraud can lead to companies going under, which puts people out of a job and onto the streets. So, don't dismiss economic crimes as something harmless and should be taken less seriously than those that cause bodily harm or death. They're just as serious.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,761 Posts
The fact that they flipped the script on him after 20 years at the helm reflects more poorly on Japan than him. I doubt his improprieties were a new development or more importantly outside of the norm for such execs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,935 Posts
Ninjas On Motorcycles, Car Chases, Huge Explosion, Gets The Girl

I think the consumption of Hollywood movies has changed my perspective :laugh:. We're background characters who don't know the full story.

I don't think Ghosn is clean, nor do I think Nissan is either. CEO improprieties are normally delt with privately so long as nobody died. It was an extreme step to take Ghosn to court. So it does look like a personal attack.

The other part for me is how the hell did he get out? He was being watched. Was the Yakuza (notorious Japanese organized crime syndicate) involved? It must've costed a lot of money to pull this off.

Ghosn said he's going to talk next week. I hope he does. It's one side of the story but it's interesting.

Edit: I wanted to emphasize the point, he got out on a private jet. Who in Japan would stick their kneck out to help him escape?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
The fact that they flipped the script on him after 20 years at the helm reflects more poorly on Japan than him. I doubt his improprieties were a new development or more importantly outside of the norm for such execs.
Well, he was thieving...But the real culprit is Macron, the President of France. When he was Economy Minister he put the screws on Ghosn to force a merger between Renault and Nissan. Ghosn, understanding Japanese sensitivities, was hesitant. When Macron became President he was now in a more powerful position to get Ghosn to do what he wanted or he could replace him as head of Renault. Feeling the heat, Ghosn try to engineer a merger but the Japanese were having none of it. As grateful as they were for Ghosn, they kept a list of his faults and weaknesses in case they were ever needed. The rest, as they say, is history.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44,091 Posts
Hmmm, if Ghosn felt so strongly about the Japanese judicial system why did he set up shop and live there for almost 20 years? What changed? I mean, I wouldn't go to China, Russia or North Korea to run a multinational firm in any of those countries. Why? because the law is malleable (or non-existent) and I simply don't trust I'd get a fair trial should things go south. But Ghosn was in Japan for decades and said nothing about the judicial system until he found himself on the wrong side. It'll be interesting what Lebanon does. We know he won't go to France (wants to maintain good relations with Japan/Nissan) or Brazil (could be sent straight back to Tokyo and transit areas may hold him hostage) so Ghosn may as well enjoy whatever freedom Lebanon offers because he's not going anywhere. Also, he's forfeited his bail money and compensation from Nissan. Finally, fleeing gives off a strong guilty stench so nobody is going to believe him.



Accounting fraud can lead to companies going under, which puts people out of a job and onto the streets. So, don't dismiss economic crimes as something harmless and should be taken less seriously than those that cause bodily harm or death. They're just as serious.
You've answered your own question.

Well, he was thieving...But the real culprit is Macron, the President of France. When he was Economy Minister he put the screws on Ghosn to force a merger between Renault and Nissan. Ghosn, understanding Japanese sensitivities, was hesitant. When Macron became President he was now in a more powerful position to get Ghosn to do what he wanted or he could replace him as head of Renault. Feeling the heat, Ghosn try to engineer a merger but the Japanese were having none of it. As grateful as they were for Ghosn, they kept a list of his faults and weaknesses in case they were ever needed. The rest, as they say, is history.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,429 Posts
I am dying of laughter here. Japan has one of the highest domestic savings rates in the world with near non-existent poverty and crime rates. While people think of them as stagnating and dying, the reality is they have chosen a different path. Yes, they had alarming levels of debt during the financial crisis, but it was almost all government bonds that were owned domestically. Their banks are also extremely well insulated from global financial institutions and can weather recessions better than most. The yen was appreciating like crazy against the USD during the economic downturn and that hurt them, but now it's starting to stabilize. December 2012 to 2017 was the second-longest continuous economic expansion in Japan's post-war history. 2018 was another growth year and 2019 performance will be tightly linked to whether Dictator Xi and the Mango Mussolini can call it quits on the trade war.

Yes, their population is going to shrink (perhaps even dramatically!) in the next 50 years, but that's something every developed nation with tight immigration policies is struggling with. No, they are not growing and spending like the 80's and 90's boom days, but few economies are. The IMF pegs them at a weak medium to long-term outlook, but powerhouses like Germany and the Nordics are also in that basket. Japan is the world's 3rd largest economy and the US is not going to let them become subsumed by Pax Sina.

TL;DR: Japan is remarkably stable, has been growing consistently for the last decade and their economic outlook is relatively healthy. They are struggling with the same problems as many highly developed nations, but it's laughable to suggest they're going to fade into some Chinese vassal state.
What Japan needs is lots of illegal immigration from third world countries. That will fix her up just right.
 
41 - 60 of 397 Posts
Top