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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
don't know why, the IMG Html tag thing or function worked all night and most of today, but here be the links to the pix at villagephotos
if anyone has any insight what could have changed, i'd appreciate
first pix is of the lower half of the VW OEm airbox and the ram air horn and upper duct (the red light is simply a red LED flashlight inside to try to give the air horn some depth or whatever
http://img.villagephotos.com/p...1.jpg

next image is view from the front of the ram air horn and the upper duct joined (that brown metal object is just a weight i put there to hold the pcs upright
and in case you're wondering, the lower ram air horn outside surface isn't shiny black glossy as it didn't get a gel coat
the outside of the ram air horn is 6 oz "E" glass with the CF on the inside surface as that is what would show thru the opening on the front bumper valance
the upper duct has the "E" glass on it's inside surface
image is rotated 90 degrees counterclock wise

http://img.villagephotos.com/p...3.jpg

ram air horn + upper duct side view (from driver's side

http://img.villagephotos.com/p...2.jpg

close up view of where the upper duct joins the VW OEM lower airbox, view from the front

http://img.villagephotos.com/p...4.jpg

this is view of bottom of the airbox with the upper ccf air duct joining to it

http://img.villagephotos.com/p...5.jpg
view of bottom side of OEM VW airbox,
that golf ball sized dimple you saw in the carbon fiber duct is also in the airbox - between that dimple and the little extension tube that goes into the fitting on the fender wall, the upper duct really doesn't need any fastners to hold it to the airbox

http://img.villagephotos.com/p...6.jpg

this is a view of the airbox where the stock snorkel joins it and the ccf upper duct covers - the yellow tape, just to the inside edge of the area outlined is what i cut out or the opening i created for unrestricted air flow

http://img.villagephotos.com/p...pgand
this is a view of the upper duct by itself

http://img.villagephotos.com/p...8.jpg
and for comparison purposes, here is pix of the stock Vw snorkel and the CCF upper air duct side by side
the snorkel, at it's front end is approx 2.75 X1.1"


http://img.villagephotos.com/p...k.jpg
the cross section on the CCF air duct, at it's narrowest, just where it joins the airbox is (from memory) 4.5" X 2.75" which is far larger than even a 3.5" round CAI inlet tube
at it's front end is approx 4.95 X 4.5"

Modified by larryccf1 at 1:54 AM 11-17-2004

Modified by larryccf1 at 1:58 AM 11-17-2004

Modified by larryccf1 at 6:51 PM 11-17-2004

Modified by larryccf1 at 7:02 PM 11-17-2004

Modified by larryccf1 at 7:05 PM 11-17-2004

Modified by larryccf1 at 7:28 PM 11-17-2004


Modified by larryccf1 at 8:08 PM 11-17-2004
 

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Re: CCF Ram Air Horn pix - finally got the camera out (larryccf1)

I can see the pic. Looks like the project is really coming along.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: CCF Ram Air Horn pix - finally got the camera out (j-dub)

actually project is finished
i learned a lot from making these molds
had a few problems early on - mainly the gloss gel coat was leaving little dry "craters" that i couldn't under stand
till i studied it
we had changed or rather used a higher temp tolerant epoxy resin for the upper duct as it will be in the engine compartment where i guesstimate temps can climb to 235 - 250 after engine shut down on a hot day
that higher temp resin was much thicker viscosity ( like thinned out honey) and the carbon fiber pulls heat from it fast so it would thicken even more when used to wet the CF out
it wasn't flowing as well as it should and didn't quite fill all the pinholes in the weave
we started using a heat gun while wetting the CF cloth out, that thinned the resin so it flowed better and ergo, no more little craters
my experience (besides the experimental aircraft) has been limited to our suppressor tubes and for those, we get the cloth already impregnated with resin and frozen, in 7" wide rolls
we have a set of mandrels (25) and simply wrap the mandrels, cure at room temp for 6 hours, then in the autoclave for 4 hours
and the tubes are kind of 2 dimensional
no compound curves like that upper duct
actually ended up building 3 upper duct molds, each "generation" curing some of the problems i saw to getting a consistent casting
worked a lot out, learned a lot
but am rethinking the idea of the auto supply website
in fact, just got in a ship of blue flame exhaust (with the titanium tips) and am thinking to just blow them out - there are more and more frigging exhaust system mfgrs showing up for the R32 than i think there are actual cars
 

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Re: CCF Ram Air Horn pix - finally got the camera out (KIYO)

Not bad:
A for effort
B for overall design
B for finish(but maybe the pictures dont do it justice
Why would you have not just made your own classic cold air intake with a one peice smoother flowing scoop?
It looks like it was a fun project, and you said you learned a lot, which is the most important thing. Personally, I would probably have done a little more research into what the intake should be designed like for best results (i.e. making an entirely new intake system) but i guess for the freetime you have this worked out to be best for you (i assume).
Goodluck with it and keep the custom projects coming...maybe some companies will spark some ideas and mass produce some
 

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Re: CCF Ram Air Horn pix - finally got the camera out (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)

Quote, originally posted by GTIVR6RACER4EVER »
Not bad:
A for effort
B for overall design
B for finish(but maybe the pictures dont do it justice
Why would you have not just made your own classic cold air intake with a one peice smoother flowing scoop?
It looks like it was a fun project, and you said you learned a lot, which is the most important thing. Personally, I would probably have done a little more research into what the intake should be designed like for best results (i.e. making an entirely new intake system) but i guess for the freetime you have this worked out to be best for you (i assume).
Goodluck with it and keep the custom projects coming...maybe some companies will spark some ideas and mass produce some

I'll have to say wow. I have seen how this project has been coming together and it looks pretty good!!! I can't wait to see some performance #'s or hear some real world feedback.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: CCF Ram Air Horn pix - finally got the camera out (KIYO)

Kiyo - power increase has been tremendous - i've become thoroughly convinced that engine can't get enough air - i'll do a search in a few minutes to link my initial description on it
but i had already done the Blue Flame exhaust and that had eliminated the hesitations in the RPM band, and made it accelerate or rev "angrily"
this just magnified all the benefits t he exhaust gave - in 2nd gear you can feel the acceleration increase real strong but especially at speed you feel it's a lot quicker to respond to WOT throttle inputs - keep in mind that front opening on the lower ram air horn is 12.5 X 6.5" that is constantly necking down to it's final dimensions at the air box and then with the airbox end opened up and the partition inside the airbox removed, i've got the full filter area for airflow
it's definitely more power than i expected but i hadn't allowed for the MAF and ECU engine management increasing fuel flow to maintain the air/fuel ration (i'm old fart, mechanic'd on datsun/nissan's in the late 60's and early 70s when fuel injection was just becoming common, much less ECUs)
in 4th, 5th & 6th gears it's probably the most noticeable and easiest to demo when rolling at 1800 - 2000 RPM and you nail it -
the combo of speed ram feeding air gives it a some "free supercharging" - it just pulls like it never did before
have had a few R32 drivers drive my car and one, chipped, exhaust system and running a CAI looked over after running thru the gears and his smile said it all - and then said with two of us in the car mine pulled better than his did with just him in his
sorry i didn't take pix with the bumper off, but that ram air horn starts out just just at the rear edge of the driver side balance opening
here's a pix from an earlier posting when the upper duct didn't have a gloss gel coat

this one is of the one in my car before the gel coat, but showing the 3 horns built into the ram horn - the ram horn serves somewhat like a megaphone -


and this one was posted sometime back, shows the dimensions of the upper duct upper opening where it joins to the airbox

only thing now pictured is the air temp sensor - it's still in the same spot on that little plastic slotted bracket in the opening of the valance - and only reason, figure if i go into dealer's for svc, if they have to check it for any reason, i won't be billed 2 hours for removing the bumper to get to it
GTIVR6RACER4EVER
"Why would you have not just made your own classic cold air intake with a one peice smoother flowing scoop"

A) - all interior wall surfaces are gel coated and glass smooth,
and to have been any smoother in flow would mean smaller cross section which translates into less airflow - otherwise any irregular surfaces are on the back side of the upper duct where it follows the fender wall - there's one small pocket that looks like a dimple the size of a quarter that gets drilled out for installation as that is where a stud on the fender goes - it's near the upper end of the air duct so user can see that stud to reach in and put the OEM plastic nut on to help secure the upper duct to the car
B) the whole idea here was to get as much air as possible to the stock airbox - reason for the stock airbox - 1) that filter has plenty of area for airflow once the partition is removed 2) wanted to keep it as stock as possible to prevent dealer from being able to say "we don't know the oil from that K&N or whoever's cloth filter didn't contaminate the MAF or O2 sensor
C) it could have been one pc but then 1) customer would need a lift to be able to install - it's big enough now that the upper duct needs to have the bumper off and be installed from underneath that square opening next to the battery and turn thru a number of gyrations to get it thru and up - making it one pc, with that ram horn attached, car would have to be in the air and 3) some folks expressed some concern about hydrolocking, which is a valid concern and they wouldn't want the ram horn at all - the upper duct probably gives 75 % of the "free supercharging" as the chamber behind that driver's side valance is pressurized with the grill cut open or removed
as to the quality of the finish, not sure what you saw - the guys here in the shop were all slack jawed when they first saw it - there are a couple of small imperfections but they are on the underside where they can't be seen when installed
you might be seeing some of the reflections from lighting where the surface turns etc to follow the fender wall
- the ram air horn, the outside of it isn't treated for cosmetics as it will never be seen when bumper is on the car - same reason the backside of the bumper isn't as pretty as the front side
we did do some elementary flow testing and just measuring the upper duct saw no decrease in air flow between the source of our air and the outlet at top end where it meets the airbox and we had some strong air feeding to the lower end of that duct


Modified by larryccf1 at 9:32 AM 11-17-2004
 

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Yeah man; that is gorgeous. If you end up selling 'em I'd love to be in line for one of my own.
The finish ain't pristine, but the concept far outweighs that.
So is there a filter in it anywhere? Are you using the stock airbox's filter and just pushing air into it? I'm confused about that.
 

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Re: (scoopR32)

Ah Ok, thanks for the explanation.
You still won't get any Ram air effect out of it. You might get less of a restriction at the airbox then stock, but there won't be any "air rammage" haha.
It is a cool project, and I understand where you are coming from with not having the dealer get in a pissy fit...but if you already replaced the exhuast, and are planning more mods, why worry about an intake?
I had warranty work done on my 96.5 gti vr6 with cams, software, cai, catback, manifol work, tranny work, etc. If they cannot show that the problem you are experienced is directly related to the modification (or unless explicity written in the warranty guidelines) then you can fight it and they will usually do the work...especially if you make friends
They still get paid for the work, just vw loses on parts, most of the time they are willing to do this, especially if its only something like an intake or exhuast....hell i have even seen a supecharged vr6 been worked on under warranty by the dealer.
But I am glad that someone is doing custom work, it should be a lot of fun once you get a bunch of custom products on the car.
Have you thought about going to dyno the car?
You mentioned you did some flow testing What kind of Flow tests did you do?
Thanks
 

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Re: (scoopR32)

Quote, originally posted by scoopR32 »
n3mesis said:
Are you using the stock airbox's filter and just pushing air into it? [/m QUOTE]
Yes, he is.
n3mesis said:
Eh Not quite. Nothing is really being pushed, there is just less restriction on the ducting leading to the airbox.
Anyone thought about some cowl induction..or a nice naca duct in the hood
very clean and efficient way to get good flow into that area.
 

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Re: (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)

Quote, originally posted by GTIVR6RACER4EVER »

Eh Not quite. Nothing is really being pushed,

Well I was really referring to the use of the stock filter, but as you mentioned it I'm not sure I agree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: (GTIVR6RACER4EVER)

(GTIVR6RACER4EVER "You still won't get any Ram air effect "
i haven't got a clue how you can feel it doesn't get any ram air
at speed you're not only getting the straight pressure increase from the movement of the car INTO motionless air
but the ram effect of a initial volume area of 12.5 X 6.5" being reduced down to it's final size
as opposed to a CAI that is SUCKING air from an environment of motionless air


Modified by larryccf1 at 11:15 AM 11-17-2004
 
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