[scottnbarb]

I have never been into the bottom end of my engine, reallllly wanted to avoid doing so but.......
I seem to remember reading somewhere that I can change my piston rings through the oil pan area. Anybody know if this is possible?
Running up to 15psi so what else should I change while I am there?

 

[Agaeris]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (scottnbarb)

Quote, originally posted by scottnbarb »

I have never been into the bottom end of my engine, reallllly wanted to avoid doing so but....... I seem to remember reading somewhere that I can change my piston rings through the oil pan area. Anybody know if this is possible? Running up to 15psi so what else should I change while I am there?

Ehhh, thats gonna be a *****. Frankly its easier to pull the head and yank em out the top! While yer at it, if not already done, I stronger head gasket, arp head studs, and arp rod bolts.

 

[ValveCoverGasket]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (scottnbarb)

id love to see someone change rings through the pan....

pulling the pistons and rehoning the bores is required, and i dont know how youd pull the pistons from underneath..unless the tranny was off and you could just drop the crank, at which point you may as well just take the head off.

 

[Jetta2dr]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (ValveCoverGasket)

Unless the crank is out and you take the oil squirters off, you wont be able to get the pistons out the bottom. Pulling the head only takes a couple hours. But if your doing rings you need to at least hone the bores, and after that you need to clean the block good (hot tank, aka engine out) to make sure all the little metal dust is out.

 

[Mortal_Wombat]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (Jetta2dr)

if you have the engine outta the car it takes all of 5 minutes to get the head off hehe

 

[scottnbarb]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (Mortal_Wombat)

Alright, I get the hint. As to pulling the head off my car in 2 hours.......not when you have all of the extras I have in order to run a custom turbo setup.

Since this is a job I have never done before I like to ask a lot of questions before hand.
In order to pull the pistons I have to take the oil pan off in order to get at the crank and bottom of the pistons. In order to rehone the bores I should have the block right out of the car. Which means I have to drop the tranny!

Did this once before, not a fun job.
Here is a list of the different jobs that come out of this and parts:
1) Rehone the bores
2) Hot tank the block
3) ARP rod bolts
4) New pistons? 9:1 compression?
5) Gastets
Any other items I should be looking at?

 

[ValveCoverGasket]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (scottnbarb)

when youre shopping for arp rod bolts, be sure to get the non-waveloc ones for a ford 289/302. half the price and twice as many bolts. i have them in my motor and theyve been working great.
i made a post about it with PNs and stuff if you cant find em

 

[scottnbarb]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (ValveCoverGasket)

Quote, originally posted by ValveCoverGasket »

when youre shopping for arp rod bolts, be sure to get the non-waveloc ones for a ford 289/302. half the price and twice as many bolts. i have them in my motor and theyve been working great. i made a post about it with PNs and stuff if you cant find em

From what I understand these bolts "can" work but with modification only. Appreciate the tip but this is one area of the engine I don't want to have to worry about modifications.
Looking for advice on what else I should replace while I have the bottom end apart. Here is what I am thinking of.
1) JE Pistons w/moly rings - 83.5mm & 9:0:1 comp ratio
2) European metal headgasket - 83.5mm bore
3) ARP rod bolts
Maintenance Items?
1) Rear crankshaft oil seal
2) Front crankshaft oil seal
3) Additional oil seal in front of 2)
4) Upper and lower main bearing shells????? This is new to me!
- is there bearings that should be replaced at this stage?
5) Flywheel & clutch bolts
6) Balance crankshaft, rods, flywheel (after resurfacing) and clutch
The block will be properly cleaned, checked then bored/rehoned for the new pistons. Anything else you guys can think of?

 

[ValveCoverGasket]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (scottnbarb)

have them align bore the main bearing races, and have them bring the big ends of the rods back to round.
those rod bolts fit like stock, if you take them and your rods to a semi competant machine shop, theyll be able to put them in http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
like i said have them in my motor and they fit fine.

 

[E60]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (scottnbarb)

Quote, originally posted by scottnbarb »

From what I understand these bolts "can" work but with modification only. Appreciate the tip but this is one area of the engine I don't want to have to worry about modifications.

Just a couple minutes on a bench grinder is all of the modification you need.
I am using these bolts too with 10k and counting... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

 

[G_T_I]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (E60)

What needs to be modded on them?
Also I heard there are 2 types of main bearings offered, 1 peice and 3 peice. Which ones are you using and why?

 

[scottnbarb]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (G_T_I)

4) Upper and lower main bearing shells????? This is new to me!
- is there bearings that should be replaced at this stage?
Looking for info on bearings that can be / should be replaced as well. Anyone?

 

[Jetta2dr]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (scottnbarb)

Rod and main bearings, definitely if you're in there. Main bearing set is like $40, rod bearings are like $30. IM shaft bearings are prone to failure too, and only $20. The parts are cheap, its the labor involved in measuring and machining (if nessisary) that gets expensive. I spent about $700 replacing rings, main and rod bearings, and all other incidentals, but I did all my own work including the honing.


Modified by Jetta2dr at 12:46 PM 8-20-2006

 

[Kiff]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (Jetta2dr)

Any more info on the 302 head studs? what needs to be done? Would they not be imperial threads?

 

[ValveCoverGasket]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (Kiff)

not head studs, rod bolts.
and again, theyre the 289/302 normal arp bolts, the NON wavloc kind.

 

[scottnbarb]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (ValveCoverGasket)

UPDATE - Found out that it is quite easy to drop the engine and transmission as one unit out the bottom of the car. Of course, everything possible was already detached from both.
Only had time last night to take the #3 piston out of the block to see if we could tell what was causing the problem. The piston had old damage by the wrist pin, no sharp edges but you could tell a small piece had broken off at one point. The piston was recently damaged between the rings though in the same area. A number of pieces were loose between the rings. This damaged area obviously could not hold up to the extra stress I was putting on it. Will try to take a couple of pics and post them.
The mechanic /friend working with me mainly deals with N/A cars and suggested I check to see if I should replace the oil pump and if so get a high volume one. Any thoughts on this one?

Hot Tanking the block - do the freeze plugs need to be removed? Anything else that is not obvious?


Modified by scottnbarb at 12:24 PM 8-22-2006

 

[ValveCoverGasket]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (scottnbarb)

Quote, originally posted by scottnbarb »

The mechanic /friend working with me mainly deals with N/A cars and suggested I check to see if I should replace the oil pump and if so get a high volume one. Any thoughts on this one? Hot Tanking the block - do the freeze plugs need to be removed? Anything else that is not obvious?

definetly pull the freeze plugs and then hot tank it. get a new oil pump regardless, at this point it sounds like things could have been floating through the oil system for a while
check the bearings too out of curiousity

 

[scottnbarb]

Re: Changing Piston Rings (ValveCoverGasket)

Getting close to dropping the block off for hot tanking, but...... what do I do with the oil pump bearings that are in the block. There's two of them and they are one piece. I don't think I can get them out without wrecking them. Does the Dealership sell replacement bearings the machine shop can install? I assuming that hot tanking these bearings will wreck them.
Got my answer, Bow-wow does sell replacement bearings. The Dealership on the other hand will only sell you a complete oil pump kit which cost a lota $$$$$'s!


Modified by scottnbarb at 10:33 AM 8-23-2006