I recently added spacers and the negative camber in the rear is now obvious to the extreme. Have been looking at the kits offered by ECS and Streetwerke. ECS is adjustable in the center of the rod while the one at Streetwerke is adjustable on the end. There is also a $100 dollars difference in price. Would like to hear why one design is favored over the other. Thanks
Comparing Camber kits
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Re: Comparing Camber kits (D-Witt)
Don't know much about the two brands you mentioned although they seem to be very popular. I went w/ Custom Performance Products or CPP carried by Evolution Motorsports here in Phoenix. They were just a tad over $300 and are adjustable at both ends, I am very happy with them and they easily took care of the neg camber induced by a 2" drop. Just my 2cents. Good luck.
Don't know much about the two brands you mentioned although they seem to be very popular. I went w/ Custom Performance Products or CPP carried by Evolution Motorsports here in Phoenix. They were just a tad over $300 and are adjustable at both ends, I am very happy with them and they easily took care of the neg camber induced by a 2" drop. Just my 2cents. Good luck.
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Re: Comparing Camber kits (phxdubr)
D-Witt, you are refering to the CPP lower control arms on our website.That is all we run in our R32's, and really all we reccomend. We have quite a bit of track time on them, and they have performed flawless. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
D-Witt, you are refering to the CPP lower control arms on our website.That is all we run in our R32's, and really all we reccomend. We have quite a bit of track time on them, and they have performed flawless. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Re: Comparing Camber kits ([email protected])
Thanks for the response and it sounds like the cpp design is the way to go. You will hear from me. Thanks again
Thanks for the response and it sounds like the cpp design is the way to go. You will hear from me. Thanks again
Re: Comparing Camber kits (Jman5000)
The nice thing about the adjustables is you can really dial in the alignment to your preferance where as the bushings are cheaper but don't allow for the precise adjustment as I understand it. To me it was a no brainer, the little bit more I paid for the arms was cheaper than one new tire. I didn't want to risk still having too much negative camber after having to lower the rear so much to get rid of the 4x4 look. They were a breeze to install and the tech at VW loved how easy they were to adjust on the alignment rack.
The nice thing about the adjustables is you can really dial in the alignment to your preferance where as the bushings are cheaper but don't allow for the precise adjustment as I understand it. To me it was a no brainer, the little bit more I paid for the arms was cheaper than one new tire. I didn't want to risk still having too much negative camber after having to lower the rear so much to get rid of the 4x4 look. They were a breeze to install and the tech at VW loved how easy they were to adjust on the alignment rack.
Re: Comparing Camber kits (D-Witt)
i have installed several kits on different r's as well as correcting botched alignments . the adjustable control arms tend to twist over time changing the natural geometry of the suspension..."not a good thing!!!" the cpp arms are made completly of alloy and the locknuts are soft and tend to roud off! you are best off keeping your stock arms and installing ecs adjustable inner bushings! also youcan fine ttune them contrary to an earlier post! good luck, dr.dodds
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i have installed several kits on different r's as well as correcting botched alignments . the adjustable control arms tend to twist over time changing the natural geometry of the suspension..."not a good thing!!!" the cpp arms are made completly of alloy and the locknuts are soft and tend to roud off! you are best off keeping your stock arms and installing ecs adjustable inner bushings! also youcan fine ttune them contrary to an earlier post! good luck, dr.dodds
Re: Comparing Camber kits (dr.dodds)
Unfortunately, adjustable control arms are illegal where I live.
I have found some information on the German Golf forums where they actually use the control arms off the 4-motion "heavy duty suspension" option and reverse the arms i.e. switch the top and bottom arms to correct camber and toe when they lower theirs.
The HD version of the Golf/Bora etc actually have higher suspension settings compared to a standard Golf.
I am still waiting fo a definitive answer as to whether it actually does work.
This is what I know so far (all these part numbers are for Euro spec cars!):
I have the standard equal length rear arms fitted (1J0 505 323 L top and bottom).
There are others available from VW/Audi:
1J0 505 323 N fitted to lower arm of Audi TT 3.2 (the top uses 1J0 505 323 L)
On 4 motion with heavyduty suspension they fit:
Top: 1J0 505 323 M
Bottom: 1J0 505 323 N
My arms are 517 mm measured from middle of bolt to middle of bolt when mounted.
I believe the Audi TT lower arm is 521 mm long (from middle of bolt to middle of bolt)- this is from CPP's own installation instructions, where they mention that the VW arm is 20 3/8" long (i.e. 517 mm) and some Audis have 20 1/2" (521mm) long lower arms. I have not had the opportunity to actually measure an Audi TT control arm yet.
Maybe HPA or "underground Jeff" have some of these odd arms lying around and can enlighten us??
The part number is stamped around the end of the control arm where the inner rubber bush is.
OEM+ mods! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
.
Unfortunately, adjustable control arms are illegal where I live.
I have found some information on the German Golf forums where they actually use the control arms off the 4-motion "heavy duty suspension" option and reverse the arms i.e. switch the top and bottom arms to correct camber and toe when they lower theirs.
The HD version of the Golf/Bora etc actually have higher suspension settings compared to a standard Golf.
I am still waiting fo a definitive answer as to whether it actually does work.
This is what I know so far (all these part numbers are for Euro spec cars!):
I have the standard equal length rear arms fitted (1J0 505 323 L top and bottom).
There are others available from VW/Audi:
1J0 505 323 N fitted to lower arm of Audi TT 3.2 (the top uses 1J0 505 323 L)
On 4 motion with heavyduty suspension they fit:
Top: 1J0 505 323 M
Bottom: 1J0 505 323 N
My arms are 517 mm measured from middle of bolt to middle of bolt when mounted.
I believe the Audi TT lower arm is 521 mm long (from middle of bolt to middle of bolt)- this is from CPP's own installation instructions, where they mention that the VW arm is 20 3/8" long (i.e. 517 mm) and some Audis have 20 1/2" (521mm) long lower arms. I have not had the opportunity to actually measure an Audi TT control arm yet.
Maybe HPA or "underground Jeff" have some of these odd arms lying around and can enlighten us??
The part number is stamped around the end of the control arm where the inner rubber bush is.
OEM+ mods! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
.
!stvwparts shows the following and if true, both the upper and lower on our cars uses the same control arm.
1J0505323L $209.77 $0.00 $153.55
Rear suspension - Suspension components - Lower cntrl arm
Lower cntrl arm Back - W/r32 2004
1J0505323L $209.77 $0.00 $153.55
Rear suspension - Suspension components - Upper cntrl arm
Upper cntrl arm Back - W/r32 2004
1J0505323L $209.77 $0.00 $153.55
Rear suspension - Suspension components - Lower cntrl arm
Lower cntrl arm Back - W/r32 2004
1J0505323L $209.77 $0.00 $153.55
Rear suspension - Suspension components - Upper cntrl arm
Upper cntrl arm Back - W/r32 2004
Re: Comparing Camber kits (dr.dodds)
When you say entirely of alloy, do you mean aluminum?? My CPP's "tube" would appear to be made of an aircraft grade aluminum alloy and the rest of the components (heim joint, jam nuts etc.) are made of steel and the heim joint boot is made of rubber??
Please explain the "twist" phenomena? Do you mean the Nuts get loose and the length changes because the tube rotates??
Modified by Arizman3 at 10:48 AM 7-10-2006
| Quote, originally posted by dr.dodds » |
| i have installed several kits on different r's as well as correcting botched alignments . the adjustable control arms tend to twist over time changing the natural geometry of the suspension..."not a good thing!!!" the cpp arms are made completly of alloy and the locknuts are soft and tend to roud off! you are best off keeping your stock arms and installing ecs adjustable inner bushings! also youcan fine ttune them contrary to an earlier post! good luck, dr.dodds
|
When you say entirely of alloy, do you mean aluminum?? My CPP's "tube" would appear to be made of an aircraft grade aluminum alloy and the rest of the components (heim joint, jam nuts etc.) are made of steel and the heim joint boot is made of rubber??
Please explain the "twist" phenomena? Do you mean the Nuts get loose and the length changes because the tube rotates??
Modified by Arizman3 at 10:48 AM 7-10-2006
Re: Comparing Camber kits (Arizman3)
the suspension is held in place by an idependent swing axle as well as two control arms! these arms need to be rigid and true "torsion" . the stock arms keep the knuckle in a geometric center. the adjustable arms deviate naturally as soon as you attemp to make an adjustment. this caused the toe to change adversly and constantlly durung suspension travel.(ever tried to walk with a twisted ankle?) thats what they do to your car! ok for the track if you have an unlimited tire budget... yes the cpp arms joints are steel but the centers and the jam nuts are alloy! lates!!!
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the suspension is held in place by an idependent swing axle as well as two control arms! these arms need to be rigid and true "torsion" . the stock arms keep the knuckle in a geometric center. the adjustable arms deviate naturally as soon as you attemp to make an adjustment. this caused the toe to change adversly and constantlly durung suspension travel.(ever tried to walk with a twisted ankle?) thats what they do to your car! ok for the track if you have an unlimited tire budget... yes the cpp arms joints are steel but the centers and the jam nuts are alloy! lates!!!
didn't want to start a new thread for this. just bought the ingalls camber kit but it was stocked incorrectly so waiting on the correct one to be sent... but here;s my question, do i even really need it? my alignment shop said they got to the point where they don't think i really do. reason I ask is because i've gone through 1500$ in tires in the past year alone ( two front tires wear out on the inside seem down to the radials). alignment shop says i just need to rotate more. so... question is... if i do rotate more, will my tires still wear out without the camber kit??
and if i do need the kit, is the ingalls one ok?
tia!
:n
p.s.
I'm on H&R coils. And they've settled alot, seems like they keep settling
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(installed in 04 when vehicle was purchased) but here's my numbers for my last alignment, if that helps at all...
FRONT..........................LEFT......................Right
Camber...................... -1.0° ..................... -1.0°
Cross Camber...............................0.0°
Caster.......................... 7.5°....................... 7.5°
SAI
Toe..............................0.04........................0.04
Total Toe.....................................0.08°
REAR..........................LEFT......................Right
Camber.......................-2.6°........................-2.6°
Toe.............................0.14........................0.08
Total Toe.....................................0.22
Thrust Angel.................................0.06°
and if i do need the kit, is the ingalls one ok?
tia!
:n
p.s.
I'm on H&R coils. And they've settled alot, seems like they keep settling
FRONT..........................LEFT......................Right
Camber...................... -1.0° ..................... -1.0°
Cross Camber...............................0.0°
Caster.......................... 7.5°....................... 7.5°
SAI
Toe..............................0.04........................0.04
Total Toe.....................................0.08°
REAR..........................LEFT......................Right
Camber.......................-2.6°........................-2.6°
Toe.............................0.14........................0.08
Total Toe.....................................0.22
Thrust Angel.................................0.06°
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