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Discussion Starter #1
Looking to get connecting rods for my 1.8L 16v Mk2 88 GTI. I will be running forged JE pistons. There is a fair amount of concern, obviously, when spending a large amount of money on something like this.
My questions are, what differentiates the brands? I've looked at Carillo, Pauter, Crower, etc. What makes one brand better than the other? I've seen most of them do the 4340 rods, Carillo makes light weight rods, but does that compromise the strength of the rod? I'm going to be running 350+ HP, so I need rods. I will not accept stock shot peened rods, i've already talked to the folks about NGP about this, and Ed recommends aftermarket for anything more than 300-350, or so... just for safety. Why build a motor, spend all that money, then have a rod fail because you're running 400hp.
What effects will a lightened rod have on the engine? I assume it will rev faster if it is light weight. I just need a general education lesson on connecting rods. I have heard to use ARP rod bolts, are these better than the ones that come with the carillo or pauter rods? What are some key things that can help me decide between which rods to get?
Some of you will say stock rods are fine, but i'm not building a $3k engine to have OE rods snap off. These will be going in a 1.8L 16v.
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Justler)

I have a stroker with Carillo rods. They came in at over 100 grams lighter than a seriously lightened stock rod. I also was able to get a 22mm pin since I got JE pistons as well. With a 94.5 stroker crank I had to remove the piston jets. There simply was not room. They are strong, one of the best rods you can buy, they are light, they are expen$ive at over $200 each for a set. They can be resized, etc by Carillo if need be. Not cheap but tough to beat. Carillo rods come with bolts, there is no need to buy other bolts.
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Justler)

sorry to burst your bubble but theres no way your "$3000" engine is gonna break a stock rod. Its obvious that youre just learning about this stuff, I recommend investing some of that hard earned cake into some engine building books and start from the beginning exploring the limits of the surprisingly strong stock parts before getting in way over your head.


[Modified by 2035cc16v, 7:37 AM 3-19-2003]
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (2035cc16v)

I still want them for added security. Seeing as i've never built nor tuned a motor, building in some safety isn't a bad idea.
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Justler)

Just curious, how do you figure you're going to get 350-400 hp? You'd need about 28psi of boost with stock cams, IF everything is done right, or you'd need to rev that 1.8 to about 14-15,000 NA.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Dumitru)

Garret GT30 or +, JE forged, Quaife, etc. Maybe dual ball bearing, but i'm sure single ball bearing will be enough.
I'd like to keep this thread on track with just specifics about rods, not question about my setup. I searched the recent posts, and the archives in the 16v forum and really found nothing.


[Modified by Justler, 4:36 PM 3-19-2003]
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Justler)

quote:[HR][/HR]Garret GT30 or +, JE forged, Quaife, etc. Maybe dual ball bearing, but i'm sure single ball bearing will be enough.
I'd like to keep this thread on track with just specifics about rods, not question about my setup. I searched the recent posts, and the archives in the 16v forum and really found nothing.
[Modified by Justler, 4:36 PM 3-19-2003][HR][/HR]​

hmmmk

Nobody here has tried to ridicule you, but keep 2 things in mind: 1 stuff like "Quaife, etc. Maybe dual ball bearing, but i'm sure single ball bearing will be enough. " sounds awesome around coffee shops, but neither has flock-all to do with how much your engine puts out. 2. Unless you're building a drag car and you're running massive slicks, OR all you care about is top speed, 400 FWD HP is utterly flucking pointless.
gl
edited for spelling



[Modified by Dumitru, 5:35 PM 3-19-2003]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Dumitru)

Doesn't matter if they want to ridicule me. I just want information on connecting rods. Art is the only one who has supplied me with any information on aftermarket connecting rods.
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Justler)

justler this is a technical forum with some very intelligent people in it. They are telling you things not to discourage you rather to guide you towards something more in line with your level of experience.
youve already admitted to never building a motor before let alone one that you want to boost heavily, this requires a building skill several notches above the average shadetree mechanic let alone a novice.
What will likely result from your adventure is that you will get in way above your head and end up disgusted, broke, and engineless. Give yourself a little time to get some experience under your belt before diving off the high dive.

we are always happy to help but you have to be realistic...
(there is always the option of having your motor built for you though)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Evil16vGLI)

My neighbor and I are pulling everything, tearing it down, getting gaskets, seals etc, but are getting the machine shop to assemble the rods, rings, pistons and everything. I have the tools to do it, but want to have someone do the "harder" parts of the job. I am just looking for the aftermarket pieces to put in the block. My friend and I have pulled engines, he has rebuilt V8s, put together heads and everything. I think we are capable, but will definetly need help on some of the harder parts.
I will also be getting help from the guys @ NGP. I am not starting off the bat at 20psi, and I will be reading everything about SDS' systems that I can. We both can follow instructions very well. If Ed says I need rods for 300-350whp for safety, i'm going to believe him... I trust the guys there in that they know what they are doing and talking about. Not that I don't trust you all, but I can come to the people and talk to them in person, and also see the end product infront of my face.
I can take criticism, and love to learn everything I can, but I want to be safe, and I just don't feel safe with stock rods. Who knows where this motor will be in a year? Maybe i'll really need those rods at that point?
I understand that you guys are trying to help me out, and I appreciate it. I just don't see any technical data that should sway me between stock, pauter, carillo, crower etc. Besides money, of course.


[Modified by Justler, 1:10 PM 3-20-2003]
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Justler)

There are many people that have made silly power on stock bottom ends. Remember that improper tuning will kill a motor just as easily as big boost will.
Stock motors are more readily available and cheaper when you're learning the ropes. It's rough on the pockets to melt built motors learning.
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Justler)

WOW!

you 16V guys are harsh.
Pauter & Corillo are both very nice & I have had no problems with them on a few engines I have built.
Building a rock solid bottom end is very important. You can never go wrong taking this route when building your engine.




[Modified by G60COUPE, 5:42 AM 3-20-2003]
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (G60COUPE)

They're just looking out and trying to show me their experience (No one has actually said they did this with xx motor). I feel rods and pistons are like full coverage insurance for your fully paid brand new car. Yeah, you paid it off fully and could get liability, but why risk it?
Thanks for the support, G60Coupe.


[Modified by Justler, 1:48 PM 3-20-2003]
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (G60COUPE)

I do think you should have someone else work out your Turbo/SDS stuff .
These guys are correct it's very easy to cook an engine when you are not very familiar with managment & turbo setups.
If you really want that much hp then leave it to the pros! Spend the money to have a good shop do it. It actually ends up being less expencive after you blow the engine a few times.

 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (G60COUPE)

there is no insurance on a improperly fueled turbo set up!
run it lean.....and buy a new engine JE, Bad Ass Rods and all http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (G60COUPE)

quote:[HR][/HR]there is no insurance on a improperly fueled turbo set up!
run it lean.....and buy a new engine JE, Bad Ass Rods and all http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif [HR][/HR]​
Exactly, and melting a few 1.8L 16v bottoms is MUCH cheaper than ONE built one.
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (need_a_VR6)

Justler, after re-reading the tread I recognise some (including myself) have been unnecessarily quick and yes, harsh. Allow me to backtrack: I think most people have reacted to the fact that you're proposing to build a 400 hp 1.8 16v on 3,000. That's just not reasonable mate!, you might as well have said, I think I'm going to go the moon today. The bottom end you're proposing, i.e. Carillo, etc and JE pistons, will cost an easy 1500 before it's ready to run. The BB turbo you're proposing is another 1500 before it's in your hands. there's 3K, and the list is only started: Standalone fueling (CIS is NOT going to flow enough go juice for 400HP), intercooler, manifold, downpipe, Quaife, clutch, better tires etc, etc, etc ad nauseaum.
A good reason nobody has alot of factual experience on Carillo rods and such is BECAUSE the OE stuff is quite strong. 8,000 RPM is not a problem with proper bolts, and I think they can also take a reasonable amount of boost (maybe 15psi, I don't know). Like many people have said, start with a stock bottom end. You will find it stronger than you think, and you may also find you don't NEED 400 hp.
good luck
d out.
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Dumitru)

i have a set of cunningham connecting rods. they were $800. find some that use arp rod bolts. my cunninghams use stretch bolts. 1 time useage is all you get out of them. dont get me wrong i like em, but i dont like the bolts, even tho they are the strongest out there. 296,000 compared to arp's 220,000
 

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Re: Connecting rods, brand to get, and effects of aftermarket rods. (Dumitru)

There are alot of people out there that make big power on stock bottom ends. Brady (oversteervw) made 270something (if i remember correctly) hp on a stock 2l bottom end and head using 2 aba head gaskets and a copper. I remember hearing he had issues when he was dynoing, should have made more power. He still ran 11's, the car was impressive in person http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Kevin (lugnuts) has said on here several times that he helped with a 340whp aba 16v. Stock bottom end, schrick 276 cams, tec 2 and 550cc injectors.

1.8l 16v bottom ends are dirt cheap, i have 5 of them laying around. Use 2 aba headgaskets, arp studs and a good motor and sds and learn how to tune the motor first. If you blow it up, you probably spent 250 in parts for the motor. This is the way im going with my rocco.
 
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