[KarstGeo]

Following...with interest.
I'm considering BIlstein B4 front and Atlas rears with a lift, soon. So far the Alltrack specific Bilstein B4 is the only OEM replacement for original ride height...and I hope in tandem with stiffer longer Atlas rears (that make up for lost droop length on extension in rear when lifted) hopefully will reduce the objectionable poor rebound up front on big long dips at highway speed.

You can get the Atlas shocks and mounts at VW dealer for $400+ or some knowledgeable after market sellers like Bearded Detailer for less:

The Bearded Detailer - OEM VW Atlas Rear Shocks

These are genuine Volkswagen Atlas rear shocks that can not only be used for replacing your worn out Atlas shocks, but can also be used with the Bearded Elevation System since these are the longest MQB chassis rear shocks. Price is for a set of two and also includes new M12x1.5 OEM nuts (N-909-429

www.thebeardeddetailer.com

Why not run B6s up front to get a bit firmer damping?

 

[Foodogg]

Why not run B6s up front to get a bit firmer damping?

Good question.
Couple years ago I checked with Bilstein to confirm B6 ok front for GSW not for AT. The AT springs are slightly longer than GSW springs inside front strut.

Thats why most reseller sites would show B6 only available rear on ATs but ok front and back on GSW.

Most guys running B6 struts/shocks are replacing OEM Sachs to lower their Alltracks, in combo with for example R front, R variant rear springs.

The shorter B6 is I believe to be part* of the problem for the guy who had sudden failure of B6 front on GSW with Alltrack springs; which are longer than GSW OEM...along with over-torquing the bolts.

If Bilstein now has an OEM replacement for Alltrack front, that is longer then thats updated info, and if so I'm looking to see it validated on install as that Alltrack specific B6 front strut would then work on a lift just fine as you are just spacing front strut/spring combo off body,
vs
over springing the strut for ride height.

* Correct me if I am wrong wont be first time...🤣

 

[KarstGeo]

Good question.
Couple years ago I checked with Bilstein to confirm B6 ok front for GSW not for AT. The AT springs are slightly longer than GSW springs inside front strut.

Thats why most reseller sites would show B6 only available rear on ATs but ok front and back on GSW.

Most guys running B6 struts/shocks are replacing OEM Sachs to lower their Alltracks, in combo with for example R front, R variant rear springs.

The shorter B6 is I believe to be part* of the problem for the guy who had sudden failure of B6 front on GSW with Alltrack springs; which are longer than GSW OEM...along with over-torquing the bolts.

If Bilstein now has an OEM replacement for Alltrack front, that is longer then thats updated info, and if so I'm looking to see it validated on install as that Alltrack specific B6 front strut would then work on a lift just fine as you are just spacing front strut/spring combo off body,
vs
over springing the strut for ride height.

* Correct me if I am wrong wont be first time...🤣

Bilstein's site has a separate part no. for the B6 on the Alltrack (not the same as the GSW).

 

[Foodogg]

Bilstein's site has a separate part no. for the B6 on the Alltrack (not the same as the GSW).

Thanks.

 

[KarstGeo]

Thanks.

They just don't make an AT B8 which is just a shorter B6, same damper.

 

[ONE8TURBSKI]

Tire rack is currently showing these options specifically for Alltrack:

Bilstein B4

F: 22-274182
R: 19-274195

Bilstein B6

F: 35-273806
R: 24-267137


There is also a new Sachs rear shock option listed for Alltrack- part number 315 913

What's interesting about the Sach's is that it's the same part number that is shown to be compatible with a 19 GTI and there is a front strut listing when you search with GTI, part number 315 910.

I can't find any info on the new Sachs parts but I'm guessing they are similar to Bilstein B4.

 

[KarstGeo]

Tire rack is currently showing these options specifically for Alltrack:

Bilstein B4

F: 22-274182
R: 19-274195

Bilstein B6

F: 35-273806
R: 24-267137


There is also a new Sachs rear shock option listed for Alltrack- part number 315 913

What's interesting about the Sach's is that it's the same part number that is shown to be compatible with a 19 GTI and there is a front strut listing when you search with GTI, part number 315 910.

I can't find any info on the new Sachs parts but I'm guessing they are similar to Bilstein B4.

I would cross-ref this to the Bilstein website to make sure.

 

[ONE8TURBSKI]

I would cross-ref this to the Bilstein website to make sure.

 

[Foodogg]

Thanks guys. Now my questions are:

1. How long are the B6 front struts vs OEM Alltrack Sachs struts (I'd like the better design of B6 but dont want to give up any ride height and surprisingly Bilstein Poway could not say- young guy manning the phone in a saturday recc I buy and compare laying side by side")

and

2. how does B4, B6 damping rates match up with that of Atlas shocks on rears. Again, Bilstein wasnt much help and I understand why...the value-add of aftermarket resellers and indy shops is for me to pay to find out...🤣

But, I read someplace here, (by jjvincent I think) that "you want about 150% more stiffness in rear, relative to front"

Any thoughts and of course pls correct me if wrong.

plus leg days advice...🤣

Next: Once thats confirmed (ideally by someone else first being beta tester🤣)

I'll install either B4 or B6 front plus Atlas rears on a one inch Rallywag* lift...I want that extra articulation to keep tire tractioning in the dirt, and not top out the shock internally with a clunk whilst leaving wheel in air...soft roading, again.

(*I really like BES too, just dont see the need to pay more. And I'm agreeing with Christof; avoiding Forge 1.5 front lift out of an abundance of caution on over torquing left front cv joint on an angle, and popping that CV joint out soft roading far from a tow...

and then its:
APR1, plus new brakes and clutch, plus carbon cleaning, new plugs and coils...

all at about 100k miles...
(I got a couple long biz trips to do first, then hoping for time and COVID to end and open Canada border to AK
For a long vaycay casual camping bucket list trip...so no rush)

 

[KarstGeo]

Thanks guys. Now my questions are:

1. How long are the B6 front struts vs ORM Alltrack Sachs struts (dont want to give up ride height and surprisingly Bilstein Poway could not say- young guy manning the phone in a saturday recc I buy and compare laying side by side")

and

2. how does B4, B6 damping rate match up with that of Atlas shocks on rears.

I read someplace here, (by jjvincent I think) that you want about 150 more stiffness in rear, relative to front
(but correct me if wrong).

Once thats confirmed (ideally by someone else first being beta tester🤣)

I'll install either B4 or B6 front on a one inch Rallywag lift...(I really like BES too, just dont see the need to pay more.) I'm avoiding Forge out of an abundance of caution on over torquing left front cv joint on an angle, and popping that CV joint out soft roading far from a tow...

and APR1, plus new brakes and clutch, carbon cleaning plugs and coils...all at about 100k miles...got a couple long biz trips to do first, then hoping for time and COVID open border to AK casual camping bucket list trip...

B6s are stock replacement struts/shocks so should be the same lenght/not alter ride height. They are just the sport damper vs. the B4 which is the stock replacement damper in terms of damping rate.

 

[Foodogg]

B6s are stock replacement struts/shocks so should be the same lenght/not alter ride height. They are just the sport damper vs. the B4 which is the stock replacement damper in terms of damping rate.

Thanks. I'd really like for the apparently "new B6s for ATs" to fit up front, as anecdotally the B4's are stiifer than the OEM Sachs by about 10%,
which may or may not help the poor rebound control even new on the big whoops at highway speed...that "bouncy house" is a bit disconcerting first couple times...🤣, especially when heavy loaded cargo bay...

I'd like to think the stiffer B6 and tube design would do more to damp that upward travel, and
Will happily pay more if I'm gonna spend the time and money, to git-r-done right,
especially if later going up an inch in lift plus c.g. change...
I'm assuming that extra B6 stiffness might help reduce some lifted body roll too...
plus
Better work in tandem with rear Atlas shock, thats made for a 500# heavier vehicle making it presumeably stiffer when installed on the AT, rigjt?

Shout Out To the forum: "anyone out there put B6s on an alltrack, front and rear, at stock height on stock springs?
Before and after review?"

 

[maxeymum]

Shout Out To the forum: "anyone out there put B6s on an alltrack, front and rear, at stock height on stock springs?
Before and after review?"

That's the million dollar question isn't it? For me anyways. I'd have done it already if not for the contract work I do being pretty feast or famine lately. I'd love to be the guinea pig, but have been trying to watch my pennies lately. If things return to normal any time soon I'll pull the trigger.

I thought about going the B4 route, but am concerned the damping won't be much better than stock -- unless, that is, someone at Bilstein drove a stock Alltrack and said 'wir müssen diese Scheiße beheben' (we need to fix this ****) when they were readying the B4s. Would be cool to have a couple of people who can comment on B4s and B6s they've installed at all four corners. Really surprised no one has stepped up yet, though I can hardly talk.

 

[goodvibes]

It's not like the the stock shocks are nor B4s will be underdamped it the positive stroke. The issue is the rebound damping of stock. They have plenty in the positive direction. If the B4 has a proper amount of rebound, there's no need to go to very stiff B6s. I wonder if the soft rebound damping is there as an attempt to keep the tires in contact with an odd surface since the Alltrack is designed for some off-road capability. It's likely that way for a reason but I really didn't care for it on the road, where mine stays. Couldn't wait to swap shocks. A good question to ask is whether a B4 replacement will have similar spec. I suspect it will have more normal rebound control but it would be good to find someone that's swapped to make certain. 10% more rebound than stock would still be much to little.

 

[Bmanx]

So just a quick recap in regards to the Bilstein for the Alltrack.

B4 - direct replacement for stock.
B6 - direct replacement for stock but more performance orientated.
B8 - Performance lowering dampeners for lowered Alltrack and pairs very well with H&R and Eibach lowering springs.

Am I missing anything?

 

[KarstGeo]

So just a quick recap in regards to the Bilstein for the Alltrack.

B4 - direct replacement for stock.
B6 - direct replacement for stock but more performance orientated.
B8 - Performance lowering dampeners for lowered Alltrack and pairs very well with H&R and Eibach lowering springs.

Am I missing anything?

Bilstein doesn't make an Alltrack-specific B8 - so you would have to use the B6 from the R to get this work - at least that's how I see it. The B8 from the R will be too short.

 

[PLF8593]

So just a quick recap in regards to the Bilstein for the Alltrack.

B4 - direct replacement for stock.
B6 - direct replacement for stock but more performance orientated.
B8 - Performance lowering dampeners for lowered Alltrack and pairs very well with H&R and Eibach lowering springs.

Am I missing anything?

You’re right!!

 

[PLF8593]

Bilstein doesn't make an Alltrack-specific B8 - so you would have to use the B6 from the R to get this work - at least that's how I see it. The B8 from the R will be too short.

He said “performance lowering damper for lowered Alltrack.” So while the B8 may not be Alltrack specific, he can use Golf R B8’s with appropriate lowering springs.

 

[KarstGeo]

He said “performance lowering damper for lowered Alltrack.” So while the B8 may not be Alltrack specific, he can use Golf R B8’s with appropriate lowering springs.

But that's just it, you can't b/c the R B8 is going to be way too short b/c the R has shorter stock springs so the lowering springs are even shorter which may cause issues. The shorter damper going from 6 to 8 is simply for preload on teh spring at extension; the damper is exactly the same otherwise. It would make more sense when using R springs to lower an to use the R B6.

 

[Bmanx]

With the Eibach Pro Kit installed and lowering the car 2" it basically is the same ride height as the R in stock trim. So sticking with the B6s they would be the same height as the stock Alltrack but not as soft correct? So what is the best option to use on a lowered Alltrack that would stiffen up the suspension and not have as much compression as the stock dampeners?

 

[ONE8TURBSKI]

With the Eibach Pro Kit installed and lowering the car 2" it basically is the same ride height as the R in stock trim. So sticking with the B6s they would be the same height as the stock Alltrack but not as soft correct? So what is the best option to use on a lowered Alltrack that would stiffen up the suspension and not have as much compression as the stock dampeners?

Depends on the product used to lower it- if you used an Alltrack specific lowering kit then there is no current solution and that is what KarstGeo is trying to illustrate.

If you lowered it with oem R springs then any oem R compatible damper will work.

The only true solution to lower the Alltrack with a higher performance damper is to use coilovers or oem R springs with an R compatible damper.

There is no Alltrack specific coilover kit, so you are stuck using GTI/R coilovers which tend to drop the vehicle lower than most seem to want to go.