VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner

Dealer Reflashing Information and How/What Chips are Affected!

7K views 128 replies 46 participants last post by  16vjunkie 
Re: (Jolf GTI)

Quote, originally posted by Jolf GTI »
Maybe I mis-understood my local tuner, but why do I have to purchase the GIAC's stock module, if I have the stock chip in my little black GIAC box?
Can't they just swap things back the way they were?

Becuase when the perfromance chip is installed there is a row of male pins soldered to the ECU board in place of the stock chip. The performance module then attaches to these male pins with its female connectors. This design is removeable. The stock chip you have without being attached to a similar board, minus the encryption cannot be installed back on the board unless you have the pins removed and the stock chip reinstalled, which is generally about 75 bucks, so the 50 stock chip module allows you to do this.
see this link for a better idea of how it works.
http://www.awe-tuning.com/page...AQ=24
 
Re: My limited REVO experience...(long) (irving)

Quote, originally posted by irving »
True, I'm going by what the dealer said. However, what do they actually do with old ECU's replaced under warranty? Does Bosch repair and/or check the ECU, or does it simply end up on Bosch's scrap pile?
If they do go to Bosch, what happens if Bosch opens it up and finds it's been tampered with? The way the dealer explained it to our customer was that it's being replaced under warranty, but if it's discovered it was tampered with then he has to pay for it later on. This sounds like what you're saying about Bosch not paying VW for the unit unless it's returned intact (not opened).
If old ECU's end up in the scrap pile, then no-one in North America has anything to ever worry about regarding chipping because it would be 100% impossible to deny a warranty claim for being chipped (no open ECU, no physical proof you're chipped, no denied warranty).

Well a few things, I know of people who have had chipped ECUs warrantied and nothing ever came back to them. I have seen "brand new" ECUs come from dealers that had obviously had the chip removed before, whether it wasnt' brand new (they had no buy back stickers) or it was chipped sent back to Bosch and returned to stock then sold I dont' know. As far as I know the ECUs end up back at Bosch where they are repaired if possible and sold as rebuilts, which are what most of the ECUs sold over the counter are considered, even though many are brand new, its really just to get a core back to rebuild those. But once they get back to Bosch they are pretty far down the road and its not really worth anyones time to track it al the way back to some guy in wisconsin or wherever.
 
Re: My limited REVO experience...(long) (irving)

Quote, originally posted by irving »
- The dealer is going to have his ECU physically inspected (this seems prudent for VW, since they had to replace it) to make sure it wasn't tampered with.

The dealer is not going to have the ECU inspected. There is no one on this side of the ocean with the powe to make the decision to open an ECU and inspect for tampering. This is what the dealer may have said however in the grand scheme of things there is no truth to what they said. Yes of course someone can open it, however as far as VW is concerned its a sealed unit from Bosch with nothing serviceable on their part and it must be returned to Bosch as a whole un opened unit or they won't even get paid for it. Its kind of like when you buy a VCR and it says no end user serviceable parts, if you break the seal on the case the warranty is void, well same goes for VW to Bosch.
 
Re: (Tuba_Transport)

Quote, originally posted by Tuba_Transport »

An APR rep could just as easily lay a seed of doubt with GIAC chips which bring the K03sport over 1 bar of boost. They could go on about mass turbo failures and expensive repair claims due to overaggressive boost and timing mapping in Xchips. Could also discuss surging which has made so many cars nearly undriveable. But this would all be overhype and marketting spin.

If you are going to use an example at least use one that has some truth behind it. Last I recall the boost was similar between the GIAC and APR for KO3 sport equipped cars and no one is having problems having them blow up.
As for this being a scare tactic, no its not its an information post. He possed it as a question and up to this point, this threads been around over a week, no other tuner has dropped in and given any real information on what will happen if you try to flash their software. So that would have me assume that what jeff orginally posed would be true, till someone comes here says its not that has the authority to say.
Also until you actually work in a dealer environment or a peformance shop for that matter even, you definitly have no way to comment on how things are done. Yes VW is not going to do a mass recall for cold start misfires and it has nothign to do with them not wanting to spend money it has to do with them not wanting to waste money because that is all it would eb in this situation. Also when working on a car with issues such as cold start misfires there it not much you can do for testing. IF it was not for that bulletin informing techs that flashing a chipped ECU can be damaging to the ECU we would be seeing hundreds of wrecked ECUs. Cars under warranty dropped off for repair they dnot' have to inform you what they are donig, you dropped it off for VW to fix for you for free. The tech is gonna toss all he's got at it till its fixed and then park it outside for you to come pick up for free. If its cold a bunch of sporadic misfires and it shows misfireds when its cold, the tech is gonna flash the ECU, put it outside, wait till it cools off and then test it again, if it works out the door the car goes. AT least VW had the common sense to inform the techs who are not into aftermarket that chips exist and doing that sort of work can be damaging. THey are not donig this ti figure out the masses of people who have chips and J moss isn't using this information to make money. You have to remember jeff has been around longer then 90% of could drive and before APR even thought about opening a shop or turning a wrench on a car, he is looking out for people here.
Then again I didnt' grow up reading SI wanting to be a baseball player, I grew up reading EC wanting to own a shop like Jeff so I may be a little biased
 
Re: Dealer Reflashing Information and How/What Chips are Affected! (einsig)

Right, I understand that you are saying that the APR daughterboard cannot be affected. However I am saying that I have seen personally that other portions of the ECU are and can be affected by attempting to reflash, you see to keep ignoring the fact that I mentioned this several times and are only concerned with that the APR portion can not be flashed. As an electrical engineer you should realize that there are lots of other parts of the ECU that can be affected, and also there are several reasons why what you are saying is not entirely true, but I Am late for work so I'll get to that later.
 
Re: Dealer Reflashing Information and How/What Chips are Affected! (einsig)

Quote, originally posted by einsig »

We are talking about a reflash frying an ECU, not a fault code saying there was a failed attempt. All I'm saying is a failed reflash won't harm the ROMs on the APR daughterboard. It is physically impossible and unless you know of some "ghost in the machine" VW is using then they can't be affected.

I still jsut dont' see how you are saying that it cant' be affected. I see one claim that his ECU was attempted to be flashed, and claims by you that it wont' allow it. Has APR made a statement that it wont' allow it, have you tried yourself. All I am saying is that one person made a post that said this may happen I dont' know, he never said it would happen, he asked the question. The only person to respond is yourself and you ahve offered no proof to back up your statements.
Also if you notice I pointed out that others have been flashed and even when the tuned chip has been removed the ECU is still not functional, well it functions but has permanent internal error faults that can not be erased. So no I am not even talking about it not being able to overwrite the APR chip I am referring to the fact that other parts of the ECU seem to be affected. And this IS from personal experienced not uneducated random postings.


Modified by chris86vw at 6:58 PM 5-7-2003
 
Re: Dealer Reflashing Information and How/What Chips are Affected! (einsig)

Quote, originally posted by einsig »

BTW there is someone who had his ECU attempted to be reflashed with APR. It didn't do anything except VAG Tool reported the upload was not successful. I believe he posted that in the big thread on the reflash TSB put up by Gambit.
.

WHO?? there is no car currently out that VW has a flash available for that APR offers programming for. Up till now all 1.8T factory upgrades were done through ECU replacement not through flashing. The only software any dealers have for flashing is for the 2L.
As for it not killing the ECU all I see is you saying that it wont' kill it, last I checked you have no authority to make this claim and the only claim jeff made is that it will not accept it (fact), and that it may kill the ECU (not stated as fact)
 
Re: Dealer Reflashing Information and How/What Chips are Affected! (einsig)

Quote, originally posted by einsig »
Chris, the original question was pertaining to flashing APR chips. Jeff mentioned that a failed reflash on an APR enhanced ECU could fry it. Since EMCS allows no data transfer through the OBDII port to the ROMs on the daughterboard there is no way a failed reflash will affect an APR ECU. It's like trying to upload a new BIOS from a floppy drive that isn't connected to the motherboard. No matter what the data is, it ain't gonna work in fact it ain't gonna do anything.

I havent' read anyting from APR that says what will or wont' happen and no one with actual experience has posted. I dont' really see an orginal question being asked just someone who I responded to who is claiming to have been reflashed in a car there is no flash currently available for.
for example I have seen ECUs that were modified with encrypted chips. the flash failed and the car still ran however the ECU had a permanent internal error fault that could not be erased. This I have seen several times and it remains even after the performance chip has been changed or even reverted totally to stock, which would lead one to believe that other parts of the ECU are also possible affected which may or may not be blocked by certain chip tuners methods.
 
Re: (vwtek)

Quote, originally posted by vwtek »
ive seen no reflash update for the 1.8t yet but ive seen it for the w8 along with the letter asking if your car is chipped,if it does happen just dont get the update

I assume you work at a dealer. Might want to switch over to web vesis and see what pops up. The VESIS update we got last week was made before this bulletin came out. ITs number 01-03-04 came out april 29th 2003. It is real I've held it in my hand.
 
Re: Dealer Reflashing Information and How/What Chips are Affected! (Electron Man)

Quote, originally posted by Electron Man »

Never heard of an ECU getting fried becuase it wouldn't accept a reflash. Dealer tried to reflash my AEB on two separate occasions (once without permission-discovered it by asking questions) while in stock mode...came up "dry" each time.
You'd think they'd have my VIN in their "no reflash" database by now.

Hundreds of ECUs have been fried from attempting to flash. The dealer I am currently at now had one just a few weeks ago and when I worked for a tuner doing chips I attempted to repair several ECU later to learn that they were flashed and not paper weights.
AS for your AEB being flashed BS, there is no flash for the AEB. There are bulletins pertaining to REPLACING the ECU, but VW/Audi has no flash available for any of the AEB ECUs.
 
Re: Dealer Reflashing Information and How/What Chips are Affected! (Rice-Eater)

Quote, originally posted by Rice-Eater »
This "Campaing" pertains to cars exihibiting CHRONIC "cold-start" misfires. This is an issue primarily with AWP engine codes. The TSB to the dealer states that cars exhibiting this particular issue are to be re-flashed. CARS WHICH DO NOT HAVE A DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF COLD-START MISFIRES WILL NOT BE RE-FLASHED. Additionaly the abiltiy to re-flash the ECU is not a dealer level procdure and can only be done by the regional service director(s). This is not a "blanket" policy. The waiver in fact is relevant and can be an issue if in fact the effected car qulifies for the reflash and currently has a performance chip of some kind.

Um the delears have been able to flash for about a year now since the WA recall came out for the 2Ls with 02 sensor problems. Also for the issue at hand the CD with the updates is in the mail on the way to every dealer in the country.
The bulletin is number 01-03-04, which came out april 29th 2003, held it in my hand just yesterday, and gave it to my service manager to copy and distribute.
 
Re: Dealer Reflashing Information and How/What Chips are Affected! (Mindflux)

Lots of chip tuners have said lots of things that were not true about their products when first comign to the market just to help get their foot in the door. If REVO has not tried to see what happens when the VW software flashes over one of their tuned ECUs they are pretty much going on what they think it does. Dealer flashing is pretty new and well guarded until recently, before that it was only done by the technical center engineers going to the dealer themselves for the updates.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top