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Does anyone know how to disable EDL? I know there's no switch, but could I pull a fuse, or tape a contact or something? Preferably would like to leave ABS intact, but would pulling the ABS fuse disable EDL as well?
Disabling EDL
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
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327 Posts
Re: Disabling EDL (wolfsburg_de)
Excuse my ignorance, but what is EDL?
Excuse my ignorance, but what is EDL?
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1,904 Posts
Re: Disabling EDL (Boostcreep)
ElectronicDifferentialLock -
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ElectronicDifferentialLock -
Re: Disabling EDL (black2001aww)
The ABS system monitors front wheel speed for differance under 20 mph it applies the brake on the faster (spinning) wheel.
This is pure speculation but if you install an ATB diff it will probably eliminate the need for EDL.
The ABS system monitors front wheel speed for differance under 20 mph it applies the brake on the faster (spinning) wheel.
This is pure speculation but if you install an ATB diff it will probably eliminate the need for EDL.
Re: Disabling EDL (r6supafly)
The multiplier is about 3 to 1 and it depends entirely on available traction. If the low
traction side can take 30 ft-lbs of torque before it slips, then a TBD will send up to 90 ft-lbs to the
higher traction side, for 120 ft-lbs of torque to the ground with no slippage. If you apply more torque
than that, the low traction tire will start to spin, but it takes longer for it to happen in
normal conditions. When the traction imbalance is very low (dry pavement where both sides
are nearly equal) both tires will either hook up fully, or spin at the same speed.
However, if the low traction side takes 0 ft-lbs of torque before it slips (shear patch of ice)
then 3 times 0 is still 0 and neither side gets any torque, just like an open diff. Most
people don't realize that. It's why off road 4x4 vehicles (jeeps, trucks etc) don't use TBDs
as they may, at times lift 1 or even 2 tires (opposite corners) coimpletely off the ground.
That makes for 0 applicable torque at those tires, and a TBD will be of no use (unless you use a braking trick).
I verified this a few days ago quite by accident when I parked on a slight uphill grade near the curb
and water had frozen in the gutter. My right tire was on ice, my left tire on pavement.
I went to drive away and my right tire spun freely and the car went nowhere at first.
A "locking" diff would have pulled away, but it has other downsides for performance driving.
In the zero traction instance, the EDL will still kick in and slow the spinning tire
but unlike the stock open diff, it'll work 3 times as effectively. The braking itself becomes
the resistive torque on the low traction side, and the TBD will give you 3 times that
much to the high traction side (open diff is 1 to 1). The TBD is way stronger too,
so you're not going to break it, if the EDL does activate.
Practically speaking, I find that the EDL activates very very seldom with my
Peloquin installed, because the zero traction situation is rare, and even moderate
traction will allow the diff to apply a lot of torque to the ground.
As for disabling EDL. We put together a mod to do this on the Mk3's.
http://www.houseofthud.com/home/edl/edl-disable.htm
So far I don't know of anyone who's attempted it with a MkIV, but it's
not hard, it is reversable, and I'd *love* it if someone could test it
out for me. If it succesfully disables the EDL on a drive by wire
MkIV, it may also disable the ASR without tripping the ASR light. That'd be a nice bonus.
On the other hand, the car may also think you're applying the brakes
all the time (the mod fools the ABS computer into thinking you're braking
instead of accelerating), and cut the fly by wire throttle. It depends
on whether the ECU gets its own signal wire to control that annoying "feature"
or uses the same ABS signal wire that this mod uses.
If anyone wants to test, this please email me and we can talk about it.
I'll update the page and give credit to anyone who's willing to help
me out on this.
ian
[Modified by Daemon42, 6:24 PM 2-14-2002]
quote:[HR][/HR]The ABS system monitors front wheel speed for differance under 20 mph it applies the brake on the faster (spinning) wheel.
This is pure speculation but if you install an ATB diff it will probably eliminate the need for EDL.[HR][/HR]
Not entirely. A TBD (ATB is Quaife's own term), is a torque multiplier, not a locking diff.This is pure speculation but if you install an ATB diff it will probably eliminate the need for EDL.[HR][/HR]
The multiplier is about 3 to 1 and it depends entirely on available traction. If the low
traction side can take 30 ft-lbs of torque before it slips, then a TBD will send up to 90 ft-lbs to the
higher traction side, for 120 ft-lbs of torque to the ground with no slippage. If you apply more torque
than that, the low traction tire will start to spin, but it takes longer for it to happen in
normal conditions. When the traction imbalance is very low (dry pavement where both sides
are nearly equal) both tires will either hook up fully, or spin at the same speed.
However, if the low traction side takes 0 ft-lbs of torque before it slips (shear patch of ice)
then 3 times 0 is still 0 and neither side gets any torque, just like an open diff. Most
people don't realize that. It's why off road 4x4 vehicles (jeeps, trucks etc) don't use TBDs
as they may, at times lift 1 or even 2 tires (opposite corners) coimpletely off the ground.
That makes for 0 applicable torque at those tires, and a TBD will be of no use (unless you use a braking trick).
I verified this a few days ago quite by accident when I parked on a slight uphill grade near the curb
and water had frozen in the gutter. My right tire was on ice, my left tire on pavement.
I went to drive away and my right tire spun freely and the car went nowhere at first.
A "locking" diff would have pulled away, but it has other downsides for performance driving.
In the zero traction instance, the EDL will still kick in and slow the spinning tire
but unlike the stock open diff, it'll work 3 times as effectively. The braking itself becomes
the resistive torque on the low traction side, and the TBD will give you 3 times that
much to the high traction side (open diff is 1 to 1). The TBD is way stronger too,
so you're not going to break it, if the EDL does activate.
Practically speaking, I find that the EDL activates very very seldom with my
Peloquin installed, because the zero traction situation is rare, and even moderate
traction will allow the diff to apply a lot of torque to the ground.
As for disabling EDL. We put together a mod to do this on the Mk3's.
http://www.houseofthud.com/home/edl/edl-disable.htm
So far I don't know of anyone who's attempted it with a MkIV, but it's
not hard, it is reversable, and I'd *love* it if someone could test it
out for me. If it succesfully disables the EDL on a drive by wire
MkIV, it may also disable the ASR without tripping the ASR light. That'd be a nice bonus.
On the other hand, the car may also think you're applying the brakes
all the time (the mod fools the ABS computer into thinking you're braking
instead of accelerating), and cut the fly by wire throttle. It depends
on whether the ECU gets its own signal wire to control that annoying "feature"
or uses the same ABS signal wire that this mod uses.
If anyone wants to test, this please email me and we can talk about it.
I'll update the page and give credit to anyone who's willing to help
me out on this.
ian
[Modified by Daemon42, 6:24 PM 2-14-2002]
Joined
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316 Posts
Re: Disabling EDL (Daemon42)
I have another question. The other day my car was on a lift, I spun one tire one way and the opposite tire spun the other, this means we have spider gears, right? This would mean only one tire would burnout, but instead it creates a "posi" burnout. Is the EDL locking in that case? If so, my brake pads are wearing out at different rates, since usually one tire receives 100% of all the traction, right? Help me out, please.
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I have another question. The other day my car was on a lift, I spun one tire one way and the opposite tire spun the other, this means we have spider gears, right? This would mean only one tire would burnout, but instead it creates a "posi" burnout. Is the EDL locking in that case? If so, my brake pads are wearing out at different rates, since usually one tire receives 100% of all the traction, right? Help me out, please.
Re: Disabling EDL (Turbine Driven)
I'm not sure exactly what you think is happening, that's special.
All differentials will spin the opposite tire backwards, some freely, some with
some resistance. That's what makes it a "differential" as it allows it
to differentiate between different wheel speeds at each side.
On the stock open diff the torque is applied to the spider gear shafts
and distributed 50/50 to each side of the gears. It's a very fair 50/50 though.
If one side takes only 10 ft-lbs to before it spins, and you apply
more, then it simply spins, and the other side (the one with traction) gets a maximum
of 10 ft-lbs of usable motive torque as well. Yes, the EDL will brake the spinning
side, but unless you *always* spin only the left or the right tire, there's no reason
the brakes would wear faster on that side than the other. It'll average out
in the long run. Generally the side with the least amount of traction will spin
first, the brakes apply there, and away you go.
Basically you shouldn't be doing burnouts with the EDL active anyway.
The brakes are the least of your worries. The rivets that hold the ring
gear to the differential will eventually fail and it'll throw one or more
through the side of tranny. This BTW, is probably why
this thread was started in the first place. It's better to disable
EDL and let it spin one tire or the other, than to let the EDL pound on
the brakes and differential.
ian
I'm not sure exactly what you think is happening, that's special.
All differentials will spin the opposite tire backwards, some freely, some with
some resistance. That's what makes it a "differential" as it allows it
to differentiate between different wheel speeds at each side.
On the stock open diff the torque is applied to the spider gear shafts
and distributed 50/50 to each side of the gears. It's a very fair 50/50 though.
If one side takes only 10 ft-lbs to before it spins, and you apply
more, then it simply spins, and the other side (the one with traction) gets a maximum
of 10 ft-lbs of usable motive torque as well. Yes, the EDL will brake the spinning
side, but unless you *always* spin only the left or the right tire, there's no reason
the brakes would wear faster on that side than the other. It'll average out
in the long run. Generally the side with the least amount of traction will spin
first, the brakes apply there, and away you go.
Basically you shouldn't be doing burnouts with the EDL active anyway.
The brakes are the least of your worries. The rivets that hold the ring
gear to the differential will eventually fail and it'll throw one or more
through the side of tranny. This BTW, is probably why
this thread was started in the first place. It's better to disable
EDL and let it spin one tire or the other, than to let the EDL pound on
the brakes and differential.
ian
Joined
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316 Posts
Re: Disabling EDL (Daemon42)
thanks Ian
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but I’m not worried rivets. airplanes and fighter jets are made from rivets, and those things see way more stress. also, have you ever tried to remove a rivet? it's a b!tch. I've broken more screws than I have rivets. rivets seem to tweak, while screws just snap under too much stress. so I’m not worried. what makes you thinks screws are stronger than rivets?
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thanks Ian
Re: Disabling EDL (Turbine Driven)
Ha ha.. That's the attitude. Deluded, but very optimistic.
Bolts are stronger than rivets, and the differentials on VW 02* trannies are
well known for ripping the ring gear free of the diff housing when the rivets fail.
A search of the web (or this forum, if the search function were working)
and you'll see I'm right here. It's the weakest part of the drivetrains. At least
they finally put a circlip on the spider gear shaft. The stupid little pin they used to
have in there used to wear right through and the shaft would come out the side of the
tranny. Now people just tear the diff apart and it comes out in pieces.
They finally started putting bolt kits in the stock diffs in about MY 2002.
Only took em what.. 20 years..
ian
Ha ha.. That's the attitude. Deluded, but very optimistic.
Bolts are stronger than rivets, and the differentials on VW 02* trannies are
well known for ripping the ring gear free of the diff housing when the rivets fail.
A search of the web (or this forum, if the search function were working)
and you'll see I'm right here. It's the weakest part of the drivetrains. At least
they finally put a circlip on the spider gear shaft. The stupid little pin they used to
have in there used to wear right through and the shaft would come out the side of the
tranny. Now people just tear the diff apart and it comes out in pieces.
They finally started putting bolt kits in the stock diffs in about MY 2002.
Only took em what.. 20 years..
ian
Joined
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1,878 Posts
Re: Disabling EDL (Daemon42)
why not just turn it off with the dash switch?
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why not just turn it off with the dash switch?
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1,878 Posts
Re: Disabling EDL (flipp)
edl and asr are connected/related systems, yes?
edl and asr are connected/related systems, yes?
Re: Disabling EDL (scotty_passat)
Daemon42 found that they were on an mkIII, drive by wire might affect that in mkIV's. (i didn't mean anything about the button comment. just trying to make friday more enjoyable
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and actually i meant to try to disable asr completely this weekend but i just remember my roommate's probably taking his laptop w/ him this weekend.
i always turn it off when i get in the car, so why not disable it completely.
[Modified by flipp, 3:38 PM 2-15-2002]
Daemon42 found that they were on an mkIII, drive by wire might affect that in mkIV's. (i didn't mean anything about the button comment. just trying to make friday more enjoyable
and actually i meant to try to disable asr completely this weekend but i just remember my roommate's probably taking his laptop w/ him this weekend.
i always turn it off when i get in the car, so why not disable it completely.
[Modified by flipp, 3:38 PM 2-15-2002]
Joined
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1,878 Posts
Re: Disabling EDL (flipp)
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now i get it.
now i get it.
Re: Disabling EDL (scotty_passat)
only turns off ASR, period. That allows the tires to spin.
EDL is active any time you are not on the brakes regardless of
whether the ASR switch is on or off. Just think about a system that
applies the brakes while you're spinning the tires. ouch.
What we found for the Mk3's was that taking the signal wire
to the ABS computer that comes from the brake light circuit
and pulling it high with a switch causes it to disable EDL.
The Mk4's will undoubtably do the same thing, except they
might also cut the throttle because one annoying feature
of the drive by wire system is that if you try to brake
and stay on the gas at the same time (left foot braking for isntance)
it'll eventually just cut the throttle, disconnecting your
foot from the engine and returning it to idle.. Gee.. thanks VW. It depends
on whether they use the same signal wire or a different one
to activate that feature whether the EDL mod will work or not.
ian
quote:[HR][/HR]edl and asr are connected/related systems, yes?[HR][/HR]
Related, but not both controlled by the ASR switch. The ASR switchonly turns off ASR, period. That allows the tires to spin.
EDL is active any time you are not on the brakes regardless of
whether the ASR switch is on or off. Just think about a system that
applies the brakes while you're spinning the tires. ouch.
What we found for the Mk3's was that taking the signal wire
to the ABS computer that comes from the brake light circuit
and pulling it high with a switch causes it to disable EDL.
The Mk4's will undoubtably do the same thing, except they
might also cut the throttle because one annoying feature
of the drive by wire system is that if you try to brake
and stay on the gas at the same time (left foot braking for isntance)
it'll eventually just cut the throttle, disconnecting your
foot from the engine and returning it to idle.. Gee.. thanks VW. It depends
on whether they use the same signal wire or a different one
to activate that feature whether the EDL mod will work or not.
ian
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