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http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7434721-Transmission-Fluid

I posted my results but I thought I would post them here also as this is where I started all this

I drained the trans fluid and refiled.

1qt Lucas trans fix took forever as this stuff is very thick
then added

3 qts Valvoline max life Mercron added some stated car ran through gears add more repeat

It still slip shifts a little but does NOT slip out of gear so for now I shall leave it alone, It's as good as it's gonna get.


And an even newer update I can say without a doubt I is vastly improved in shifting. Very smooth shifts this morning.

So ya I would do it again it seems to have been worth the effort.

:)
 

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Update:

Drained the fluid I put in ~8k miles ago, and it was pretty dark. It wasn't black like the previous drain, but I think that this flushed out some of the older fluid. In addition to reading the VW tech paper on the previous page, I think that indeed underfilling may be an issue. I put in a full 4 quart bottle last time, and only got back 3.75 qts. I have no detectable leaks, so I think maybe it's burning up the fluid?

I'm going to try 5 liters this time around; hopefully my trans doesn't explode. :)

Update pt.2:
Found the missing fluid, and then some! I ran out of time yesterday so I put the drain plug back in, lowered the car, and partially capped the fill port. Today when I went back and unscrewed the drain plug another ~1.25 liters of quite dirty trans fluid came out. So it seems like if you let the car sit overnight (or for some time), it could be the source of the discrepancy of how much fluid to use in the replacement.

I put in about ~5.5l more or less, and let the car warm up. Ran through the gears with the parking brake set, then took it for a lengthy test drive. Shifts seem to be as smooth as last time I changed the fluid, but there are a lot of other variables that were changed like new engine oil, took the battery out to reach the fill port so it's "learning", new tank of gas, etc.

I'm curious to see if the fluid is as dirty at the next interval; might have to give Blackstone a go if so. Here's 8k miles on the left and new fluid on the right.
 

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Tutor man and or matador, read your posts but unclear if you lifted your car? If not how'd you gain access to the drains?

Advise?

Hoping this will fix my "won't shift out of first, assume it's solenoid, can't find a mechanic to do it for me and don't want to buy new trans but still want to keep the car" prob.
Sorry about the delay getting back to you! The drain can be accessed with the car on the ground and a 24mm socket. I use a long Rubbermaid entree storage container (forget the size, but holds at least 4 quarts!) as a drain pan and a 1/2" socket wrench. You can easily reach the plug as long as your car isn't slammed; I'm near OE height on H&R springs and Bilstein struts, like maybe a 1/2" drop, and can reach under very easily.
 

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Picked up a new plug, and a package of copper crush washers from Grainger instead of the OEM. My plan is to change the ATF every other oil change.

Plug p/n - 001301143
Grainger p/n - 5ZLU7 (24mm OD, 18mm ID, 1.5mm thk)





Don't understand why VW didn't just put a magnet inside the big hole they have in the plug. (shrug)
 

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My check fluid plug drained 1.75 quart of fluid. I need help understanding this, please.

I need some input on this situation, please:

I followed the instructions at the beginning of this thread ( they are about 6 y/o I know) but instead of draining , I decided to verify the fluid level first. I thought it could be low, as my 05 TDI jetta (MK4 09A tiptronic) is not shifting well.

After driving the car for a while and making sure it is warm, I put it on 4 jack stands, leveled it, opened the refill plug ( to be sure it could be open before I let any fluid out) and opened the check/overfill plug.

this one:



I thought I wouldn't have much fluid coming out, but it drained out about 1.75 quart of fluid!!

Now this car has been my wife's car since new, and she never had any work done on the transmission, neither had I. It currently has 148000 miles.

How could it be so badly overfilled? What am I missing, guys?

btw, the fluid coming out is like black coffe. very dark opaque brow, almost black.

Any help is appreciated.
 

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OK, let's try this again...

From what I can tell from an anecdotal standpoint, I think the factory fill was over filled intentionally. My thinking is that VW looked at the “lifetime” fluid from an actuary’s eyes, and by overfilling the trans it would make up for any slow drips/leaks long enough for your car to be out of warranty.
5 years pass, and not only would the fluid be burned up but potentially dry.

OR… the drain port recommendation could just be off. Last time I changed the fluid I didn’t even bother with the warm up method and just put in 5.5L of fluid (about the same amount taken out, and recommendation of the tech paper from pg.4) and have driven around just fine ever since. My guess is that the “proper” procedure could be
- Drain fluid, put plug back in
- Fill with 4 liters of fluid, start car
- Warm up car to 40*C, run through gears with parking brake on
- Open drain port, close when fluid has stopped
- Put in 1 liter of fluid, plug fill hole

Honestly I have no idea what proper procedure would be. I’m sure even having three different VW trans techs chime in we’d get three different answers. But as mentioned before I just removed and added ~5.5L and didn’t even bother with VAG-COM this time around. For a 13 year old car, this is good enough for me. :)
 

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OK, let's try this again...

From what I can tell from an anecdotal standpoint, I think the factory fill was over filled intentionally. My thinking is that VW looked at the “lifetime” fluid from an actuary’s eyes, and by overfilling the trans it would make up for any slow drips/leaks long enough for your car to be out of warranty.
5 years pass, and not only would the fluid be burned up but potentially dry.

OR… the drain port recommendation could just be off. Last time I changed the fluid I didn’t even bother with the warm up method and just put in 5.5L of fluid (about the same amount taken out, and recommendation of the tech paper from pg.4) and have driven around just fine ever since. My guess is that the “proper” procedure could be
- Drain fluid, put plug back in
- Fill with 4 liters of fluid, start car
- Warm up car to 40*C, run through gears with parking brake on
- Open drain port, close when fluid has stopped
- Put in 1 liter of fluid, plug fill hole

Honestly I have no idea what proper procedure would be. I’m sure even having three different VW trans techs chime in we’d get three different answers. But as mentioned before I just removed and added ~5.5L and didn’t even bother with VAG-COM this time around. For a 13 year old car, this is good enough for me. :)
Personally I think your on the right track...
I called 4 very good VW shops and spoke to several trans guys, I got several different answers to my questions. Even the trans shop gave me different answers and he does them all the time.
As for the over flow stand pipe ... It's all bull I did what they all said I opened it till it started to bubble and then closed it off. the trans would slip out of gear in a left turn. Scared the crap out of me... So I added a quart to it and BINGO it worked perfect. Maybe my stand pipe is cracked or something allowing the level to falsely go to low...I don't know but I do know I won't do that again....
By the by my trans is settling down nicely and it's stopped several bad shifting habits IE: banging into reverse gear , over revving between shifts , hanging on to a shift to long.
It's not perfect but it is so much better.
And I stand by my decision to add 1 QT of Lucas trans fix oil.. at each change . I'm telling you It helped me.
 

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Back to not normal

Haven't followed up on my situation in a while. But after about a week or so of good shifting and no sticking, my trans went back to sticking in first unless it's warmed up first. If car sits for a few hours after driving, have to warm it back up again before trans will leave first gear. At this point wondering if another drain and fill would have any affect or if I am wasting my time. Thoughts?
 

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Haven't followed up on my situation in a while. But after about a week or so of good shifting and no sticking, my trans went back to sticking in first unless it's warmed up first. If car sits for a few hours after driving, have to warm it back up again before trans will leave first gear. At this point wondering if another drain and fill would have any affect or if I am wasting my time. Thoughts?
I think you didn't go far enough personal opinion ... I would have added the whole QT of Lucas then the Max life. Skimping did little to nothing again My Opinion. The cost of doing it again is not that much compared to a trans fix. One more time is what I would do. Give it a month of driving If that didn't work then consider replacing the solenoids. and if that didn't work I'd look for a replacement trans or having a shop rebuild it.. If the car is worth it to you. Only you can make that determination. I'm really cheep I have to be so I'd take the cheapest way out first but that's just me.. I've seen people junk cars for less than that. And I've seen people spend lots of big money for very minor problems...

On a side note I just had a local mechanic IE: friend of mine , replace my timing belt, tentioner and water pump and he replaced all 4 spark plugs $325 and a case of Miller ...Good deal.

Now I got it in another shop replacing the N249 Valve Only cause I got notice to get Emissions tested. check engine Lights been on for a long time. I wasn't going to fix it but now I have to .

I've dumped about $1500 into this car but I was given the car so I'm still ahead. Heck I could spend another $1500 and still be ahead.
Hope it works out for you.
 

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I'd like to thank everyone for their great suggestions in this thread.

I was having problems with my 2004 Jetta Wagon GLS 1.8T with Tiptronic Transmission 09A.
The car has 160,000kms (approx 120,000miles) with the original transmission fluid.

Symptoms: The transmission did not want to shift out of first gear when it was cold. I would warm up the car for 5-10 minutes and once warm it would drive without any problems. As fall rolled around and the temperature dropped I guess the transmission fluid wouldn't get warm enough and wouldn't shift out of first gear.
I also had a check engine light and after scanning with VAG-COM the 5 codes that popped up were all transmission related.
After speaking to a few transmission shops and a valve body specialist, I was told that this sounded like a valve body issue and would likely need to replace the solenoids in the valve body.

After doing plenty of research I came across Seafoam's Trans Tune product. It's supposed to clean auto transmission internals including sticky valvebodies so I thought I'd give it a try. I dumped a 494ml can into the transmission fill hole and drove around for a few days with it in, as recommended by Seafoam.

As was mentioned in this thread a few times the 09A transmission holds 7L of fluid, 2L in the torque converter and up to 5L in the trans housing.

I warmed the car up and drained the automatic transmission fluid in a clean bucket. The fluid was brown/black and it didn't smell, look or flow like transmission fluid. Then I measured the amount of fluid that came out of the transmission, almost 3.75L-4L came out (including a quart of the Seafoam Trans Tune).

I reinstalled the drain plug and filled the transmission with 3.5L of Fuchs TITAN ATF 4400 automatic transmission fluid (recommended by my supplier). Then I went for a drive for 20 minutes to mix the new transmission fluid with whatever old transmission fluid was still inside the torque converter and transmission. I was sure to go through all of the gears and at different speeds.

Then for the 2nd time, I drained the transmission fluid and measured it, again I measured 3.5L. My goal was to remove as much of the old transmission fluid as possible.
I replaced the 24mm drain plug and aluminum crush washer with a new one sourced from my VW dealer (approx $12) and I torqued to approx 22ft-lbs (same as oil pan drain plug), I was unable to find exact torque specs for the transmission drain plug.

I then filled the transmission with 3.5L of Redline D4 ATF. I've always had positive experience using Redline transmission oils in my manual MK4's so I thought I'd try their ATF in my MK4 tiptronic 09A.


Tip
I'd like to mention that you should not bother with the transmission overfill drain plug, it showed that the transmission was filled after adding 2L of fluid, that would have left the transmission fluid level dangerously low. Other's have mentioned that the overflow plug on the 09A is useless and I tend to agree. My advice is to replace the amount of fluid that drained from the transmission. Some even mention adding an extra 0.5L of transmission fluid.

Outcome:
After using Seafoam and flushing the transmission fluid twice the tiptronic seems to be working properly.
I can't say with certainty that the Seafoam Trans Tune had any benefit but it was part of my process and I thought it was worth mentioning.
I've been driving the car for the past few days and the transmission is behaving and the transmission does not need to be "warmed up" before being driven. No sticking gears and no check engine lights.

So far it appears that the fluid was the problem and not the valve body.

I'll keep you all posted if there are any changes.

It's worth mentioning that if you have a known transmission leak or drained out significantly less fluid, I would still add 3.5L of ATF to the transmission after draining the casing.

As we all know there is no such thing as a "Lifetime Fluid" as VW claims for the 09A. Fluids have a lifespan and frankly, VW (or just about any car manufacturer) doesn't care what happens to your car once the warranty period is over. The same goes for "Lifetime Filters".
 

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I am reading often the suggestion "My advice is to replace the amount of fluid that drained from the transmission."
That sounds wrong to me.
Example: I have a small tranny leak (but don't know of it). I drain out 1 liter out of the drain hole. I put one liter back in. My car still does not run.

The 'replace what you drained' is based on the assumption that the fluid level in the transmission was ideal when the draining was done.
Somehow you need to know how much fluid IS in the tranny.
If it was too low before, it is not good to keep it low.
Since we don't have a dip stick, only other method is the official one to ensure proper fill level.
 

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I am reading often the suggestion "My advice is to replace the amount of fluid that drained from the transmission."
That sounds wrong to me.
Example: I have a small tranny leak (but don't know of it). I drain out 1 liter out of the drain hole. I put one liter back in. My car still does not run.

The 'replace what you drained' is based on the assumption that the fluid level in the transmission was ideal when the draining was done.
Somehow you need to know how much fluid IS in the tranny.
If it was too low before, it is not good to keep it low.
Since we don't have a dip stick, only other method is the official one to ensure proper fill level.
That's a great point, I didn't take into consideration that a vehicle could have a leak. In that case I would add 3.5L after draining the transmission casing.
 

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That's a great point, I didn't take into consideration that a vehicle could have a leak. In that case I would add 3.5L after draining the transmission casing.
I have the following symptoms:
- after cold start, can take a bit of idling (temperature dependent) before car moves (summer right away, fall 20 sec, winter 1-3 minutes)
- slipping when making sharp right turns

Jacking up on 4 AND level is too much work. My approach. When my 'test right turn' starts to slip, add a quart through the top vent hole (5 minutes).

I will try 2 quarts next time, see if that impacts the cold start issue (which might be overall low fluid level, but NOT low enough to cause major issue during normal operation?)
 

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I have the following symptoms:
- after cold start, can take a bit of idling (temperature dependent) before car moves (summer right away, fall 20 sec, winter 1-3 minutes)
- slipping when making sharp right turns

Jacking up on 4 AND level is too much work. My approach. When my 'test right turn' starts to slip, add a quart through the top vent hole (5 minutes).

I will try 2 quarts next time, see if that impacts the cold start issue (which might be overall low fluid level, but NOT low enough to cause major issue during normal operation?)

The symptoms sound similar to what I was experiencing, except the slipping. If you haven't changed the ATF in a while I'd recommend draining and refilling. The Redline ATF was a bit pricy but I'm glad I used it.
 

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The symptoms sound similar to what I was experiencing, except the slipping. If you haven't changed the ATF in a while I'd recommend draining and refilling. The Redline ATF was a bit pricy but I'm glad I used it.
Fluid was changed during an engine out (plus continuous flushing via constant refill ;-) ). Valvoline.

Forgot: for 'real' level check: on jack, level and: engine running, car in gear? (that is on the ZF trannies). Then take overflow plug out? Or engine NOT running (just warm; ZF tranny call for 43 deg C iirc).
 

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Fluid was changed during an engine out (plus continuous flushing via constant refill ;-) ). Valvoline.

Forgot: for 'real' level check: on jack, level and: engine running, car in gear? (that is on the ZF trannies). Then take overflow plug out? Or engine NOT running (just warm; ZF tranny call for 43 deg C iirc).
For the little that a few bottles of fluid cost, I would consider draining the transmission, especially if you're experiencing issues. I recommend Redline D4 ATF, at the moment it seems to have eliminated the problems I was experiencing.
Personally, I wouldn't use the overfill plug at all. I used it and I quickly realized why it was useless. The trans only took approx. 2L of fluid before dripping out the overfill, which clearly wasn't enough fluid in the trans.

In regards to jacking all 4 corners of the car up... If you don't have 4 jack stands or a hoist to keep the car level when draining the trans do the following...
1. Jack the front of the car up and support with stands
2. Drain transmission into a bucket (or catch), preferably one that has a lower height.
3. Keep the drain plug off and lower the front end of the car to level with the catch pan in place to catch any remaining fluid.
4. When you're satisfied that trans is sufficiently drained, jack the front of the car back up & support with jack stands.
5. Then reinstall the drain plug with a new crush washer and torque to approx. 22ft-lbs.
6. Add 3.5L of transmission fluid through fill hole.
7. Reinstall fill hole cap.
 

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Update

I'd like to provide an update to my previous posts.

After driving around for a week...
I was hopeful that the transmission flush would solve the problem, but it did not. The car still needs to be warmed up for a few minutes to get the car to shift out of first gear and the Check Engine Light has returned. Last time there were 5 CEL codes that all pointed back to the transmission.

At this point I'm looking to have a shop replace the solenoids in the valve body.


UPDATE 2:
After a few more weeks of driving around after the flush, the tiptronic transmission seems to be working fine. I wonder if the detergents in the trans fluid is doing its job.
 

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I was intimidated to do the solenoids myself... but i did it, and glad of it...
A few things that would make it easier.
1/4 air ratchet. Life saver
My air compressor was to small i had to wait for the air to build up. but was still worthwhile
10 mm deep well socket
Short 10mm box wrench
Wire wheel to clean paint from inside of pan
Get the wire harness if you can.
. I broke most of the clips.
It took me the better part of a day to do this.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 
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