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"Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed!

2280 Views 51 Replies 37 Participants Last post by  WhatBlueVW
Man, I am quite dissapointed in the new car technologies. The cars have been getting better (or so I thought), they were getting stiffer, nicer inside, engines were getting better. However, at the same time, VW has been downgrading the sporty ride and other performance features since the type III's came out. Now when go get a car from the "Driver Wanted" company, you have to immediately change the mushy suspension.
It gets better. I consider myself a "driver" (not a great one, but an ok one) and I was hoping that VW's "driver wanted" delivers to the drivers. It is NOT so. As a driver, you will know what left foot braking is. Well, you are not allowed to do this anymore.
I have been getting used to driving the Jetta faster, or at least sliding around more with the wimpy winter tires in the wet. Several times I tried to use left foot braking around longer sweeper and I got a weird feeling that I loose power before the tail kicks out and I stop plowing. At first I thought it was my braking and I just jammed the pedal too far.
I decided to do a test of the weird effect. On a straight road, put the car in third, kept it almost flored, and applied brake pressure slowly but consistently. It was ok, ok, and then all of a sudden I almost fly out the front windshield (and it was not due to my braking). Repeated the experiment several times - same result.
There appears to be some kind of threshold in the brake pedal. If you exceed it, it cuts all power to the engine and remains cut for about 2 seconds before the power returns. It makes no difference if the traction control is on or off.
I contacted a reputable tuner, and the word is that it is a "feature" of the drive-by-wire technology. It can not be altered by chip programming and most likely any other means as well.
So, the new Jettas/Golfs are designed to not allow you to really drive like a true driver and to left foot brake! VW's slogan is "drivers wanted", what a bunch of s***. They have the drivers, they just can't deliver to the drivers! Maybe they should change it to "drivers found, told them to go elsewhere".
Don't get me wrong, I like the new cars, the new safety features and all that and I think it is really great for the 95% of people out there, but there should be a choice and a button to turn off the "I will control the car for you" safety features. This includes the lack of a "ABS off button" too!
I'm quite dissapointed at my new discovery.... I guess no fast left-foot braking sweeprs in the Jetta for me.... Gotta get the 'old, harsh and crude A2's back on the road to have some fun....
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1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (xtnct)

I agree.
They're nice features for nearly all people nearly all of the time, but if VW is claiming to cater to "Drivers," they need to give me the buttons to turn off the computer drivers.
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (xtnct)

Which model do you have? My friend's TDi definitely cut power, but my VR6 allows left foot braking without cutting the throttle. However, I'm going to try the same test you did, for an extended amount of time, and see if the car suddenly decides to override the throttle - I still don't use that technique as much as I should...
I imagine this "technology" is a good idea for 95% of the drivers, since if both pedals are pushed it usually means someone is accidentally hitting both pedals in a panic situation. But for your autocross or track event guy, this is downright evil and wrong. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
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Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (Flacker)

everyone who drives a car is a driver
vw wants to sell cars to everyone
char everyone[10]
everyone = driver
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (xtnct)

trhe ad doesnt read "crazy psyco drivers wanted" just "drivers wanteD" hahahah
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (steez)

quote:[HR][/HR]everyone who drives a car is a driver
vw wants to sell cars to everyone
char everyone[10]
everyone = driver[HR][/HR]​
if (driver = vwvortex driver)
then less_computer_intervention
elseif (driver = old_person)
then more_computer_intervention
else normal_computer_intervention
2
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (jetta_fiend)

geeks
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3
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (jetta_fiend)

This would always be nice.


Mechanical throttle conversion.
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2
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (xtnct)

quote:[HR][/HR]Maybe they should change it to "drivers found, told them to go elsewhere".[HR][/HR]​
The best slam I have seen was on the back of a honda at a redlight. It said
"Honda, we dont have to beg for drivers"
Even though it was a VW slamm I give it..... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
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Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (steez)

ahem:
char everyone[10];
everyone = "driver";
hey - it compiles! Ship it!
quote:[HR][/HR]everyone who drives a car is a driver
vw wants to sell cars to everyone
char everyone[10]
everyone = driver[HR][/HR]​
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (MylesPH1)

quote:[HR][/HR] Which model do you have? My friend's TDi definitely cut power, but my VR6 allows left foot braking without cutting the throttle. [HR][/HR]​
AFAIK - 2000 VR6 was not DBW.
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (jetta_fiend)

wow, back off the C++ console a little and drive more.
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (AtariMasta)

Hey Speedfreak,
How much would the conversoin cost?????? What are the part required to make it happen.
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (xtnct)

I've got bad news for you. Go drive an Audi, or a BMW, or a Porsche, or a Mercedes with a Drive-By-Wire throttle, you'll get the same reaction from the throttle when the brake is applied at the same time. By the way, it's not necessarily a bad thing either. It's a built in safety feature. Think about your daily driving, chances are that when you hit the brake you're trying to either slow down or stop. Now imagine if you were in a panic situation or trying to avoid a collision. You go to hit the brake, but in a panic don't lift off the gas (as is often the case). The brakes won't be very effective at all. Now imagine the same situation with DBW. You go to hit the brake, but because of the panic don't lift off the gas. Ahh, you have DBW and it cuts the throttle, allowing the brakes to do what they do best, stop the car!
Left foot braking is a good thing I guess, but I ask you this, why would you want to both brake and accelerate at the same time?? Both actions counter the other. Now, if you were able to control left from right, and front from back, it'd be a different story because you good keep your right foot on the gas and use your left foot to use the individual brakes to balance the car, just like ESP does.
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Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (BostonMk4)

quote:[HR][/HR]
AFAIK - 2000 VR6 was not DBW.[HR][/HR]​
Mine is, and yes I tried the braking thing about a year ago...All I will say is that I must have looked like a complete idiot. And you are also right about the fact that when you use VERY slight pressure on the brake at full throttle, the car does nose dive.
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quote:[HR][/HR]everyone who drives a car is a driver
vw wants to sell cars to everyone
char everyone[10]
everyone = driver
if (driver = vwvortex driver)
then less_computer_intervention
elseif (driver = old_person)
then more_computer_intervention
else normal_computer_intervention[HR][/HR]​
cout << "we arent geeks at all" << endl;
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (Pelican18TQA4)

(Pelican18TQA4: trying the quoting thing for the first time so it may not come out right, but find the answers to your question near the end).
I've got bad news for you. Go drive an Audi, or a BMW, or a Porsche, or a Mercedes with a Drive-By-Wire throttle, you'll get the same reaction from the
That sucks!!!!
necessarily a bad thing either. It's a built in safety feature. Think about your daily
I agree, it is great for the 95% of the polulation. I am in the other 5%. Ultimately, I would like to see that when you turn off the ASP, you turn off ALL the drivers aids as well.
Left foot braking is a good thing I guess, but I ask you this, why would you want to both brake and accelerate at the same time?? Both actions counter the other.
Here is why: This site gives a nice explantion of this technique. Basically, it is used so that you can go even faster around a corner. From: http://www.rallyracingnews.com/lfb.html
Theory:
When driven under acceleration with no brakes applied, a front wheel drive car will understeer when the front wheels are turned. To overcome the understeer, a technique called left foot braking is used to change brake bias (balance) to the rear. By using a combination of throttle and brake you can change from understeer to neutralsteer to oversteer. How does it work? Read on!
Weight Transfer:
Think about this for a second. When you stand on the throttle, which way does your body try to go? Toward the rear wheels! Right? Now what happens when you brake? Your body tried to go forward! This boys and girls is weight transfer! By using the basic rules of weight transfer and a combination of throttle and left foot braking, you can be in control when the unexpected happens on a rally (which always happens)
How Does It Work?
Brake bias in normal street cars is toward the front wheels for safety reasons. If you have ever pulled up your hand brake when turning on a wet road and spun out, you know why they build cars this way. What you did was bias the brakes to the rear, and this is not what Grandma wants in her Buick coming home from the supermarket. But as rally drivers we can use a means of biasing the brakes to the rear. Some of the things that can be done include using a brake bias control valve or installing more powerful brakes on the rear wheels. That works wonderful on a track, but on a rally it's hard to change your brake bias in the middle of a turn that suddenly changes from dry dirt with good grip, to wet slime with no grip.
Enter Left Foot Braking!
Once your have mastered LFB, when the road surface changes, you can change the brake bias by either adding power or brake pressure ( this is also called "modulating"). Example: You are in a turn and the rear of the car starts to slide out more then you want. You could release some brake pressure and increase the throttle. This will change the oversteer to understeer. The reverse is also true. If the turn tightened, you can change to oversteer by increasing brake pressure against the throttle. Also by balancing the brake and throttle you can get a neutralsteer.
Why Does It Work?
A tire has 100% of it's possible traction when it is rolling straight with no braking or acceleration. When you change any of these factors the tires affected will have less available traction and break loose earlier.By applying brake against the throttle in a front wheel drive car, two things happen. One: The front wheels keep turning. And two: The rear wheels try to lock up. If you are in a turn, the back of the car will start to slide toward the outside of the turn. To control or stop the slide, apply less brake and more power ( this changes the oversteer toward understeer and stops the rear wheels from sliding toward the outside of the turn ).
Putting Theory Into Practice:
Let's Give It A Try: Now comes the fun part, driving the car. Find a safe place to practice, a gravel parking lot with no trees will do.( If you live up north and it's Winter, try a frozen lake, this is ideal because everything happens at low speed ). Set up some traffic cones to make a Tee intersection. Now get in your car and practice driving the turn without left foot braking, but try doing the normal braking with your left foot.(What did he say??) Yes, try braking with your left foot! You can't learn to LFB until you train your left leg to brake! If you have never tried using your left leg, your will find it's like trying to write with your left hand if you are right handed. This is very important. Until you can drive doing the braking with your left leg, you can't do LFB. Once you can brake with your left leg, now let's try something new. First think about what you want to do, then start your practice turn. After turning in, apply the brake against the throttle. If you did it right you should feel the rear of the car start to slide to the outside of the turn. When you are pointing in the direction you want to go, let pressure off the brakes and increase the throttle. If you did it right you will be amazed at how the car seemed to pivot on the front wheels. So wipe the silly grin off you face and try it again, and again, until you can start or stop the slide at will. Congratulations, you now know what LFB is!
Practice Makes Perfect:
The first few times you try the exercise above, you will probably find the car slowing down in the turn but not much else. Try using less brake. You will be amazed at how little pressure is needed. Also remember to turn in before you apply the brake.I don't mean try to turn before you have slowed down for the turn, I'm talking about after you have braked and selected the proper gear for the turn, you must let some pressure off the brakes before turning in.After you get bored with just making a left or right, try setting up an "S" turn and play with that until you can keep up your speed through both turns. Remember to treat each turn separate, and lift off the brake and turn in each time. When you have mastered Left Foot Braking you will find that you will have control of your car like you never thought possible! It's both faster and more important safer. So don't get discouraged if it seems impossible to master, keep trying and all of a sudden it will seem easy!
Ed Brennan 1995
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (TDELTA)

you can find that part here http://www.eurospecsport.com/electrical.html it sells for something like $1200 but you would have to talk to one of their retailers.
Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (xtnct)

Two Words:
Unintended accelration
This almost sank Audi, and it wasnt remotely true.
Drive By Wire is quickly becoming standard issue on many vehicle as emissions laws get tighter and tighter. And since it is an electronic device, it needs a 'fail-safe'. Thus when brakes are applied, the throttle voltage is cut.
Left-foot braking is a good peformane driving technique, but for the majority or drivers out there, it never enters their realm. I would honestly be happy if people could learn lane etiquette or even skid control, but I know i'm dreaming about that too

So dont be mad at VW for incorporating something that keeps the cars safe, be mad you dont have 1200 bucks for the throttle conversion. Or maybe just be mad that you bought the wrong shiny new car. Wait, why the hell are you mad?
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Re: "Drivers Wanted" my a**: Left foot braking not allowed! (jetta_fiend)

quote:[HR][/HR]everyone who drives a car is a driver
vw wants to sell cars to everyone
char everyone[10]
everyone = driver
if (driver = vwvortex driver)
then less_computer_intervention
elseif (driver = old_person)
then more_computer_intervention
else normal_computer_intervention[HR][/HR]​
end if
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