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Hey TESLA owners and fans, do you find Elon Musk repulsive?

  • I have another reason that Elon is hated yet so successful (tell us oh wise one)

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Billionaires shouldn't exist.
So what’s the mechanism from removing their wealth? The big few millionaires (Musk, Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, Buffet, etc) all got their start founding* companies that became very influential and lucrative, and most of their wealth is just their shares of ownership of those companies. If they don’t deserve to own these companies, who do you give it to when you take it away from them?


*for some of them “founding” isn’t quite literal, but all took the companies and built them into what it is today, let’s skip the
 

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Genius = crazy, comes with the territory.

As long as he keeps it in weaponized autism mode that's fine. If you aren't pushing boundaries, you aren't learning where they are and what your limits are.
 

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That all changes when a business owner decides to make a very public stand on an issue that I disagree with. CFA is a great example, since the Cathy family is very open and public about being anti-LGBTQ. Because of this, I no longer give them my business. I'm a guitarist that plays metal, and I used to be a huge Iced Earth fan. I see used to be, since Jon Schaffer (the founder and band leader) decided to take part on 1/6 and was caught macing a cop. So, I deleted all of his music of my iPhone and moved on with my life. Elon Musk is an easier case, since don't see the appeal in Teslas (not all EVs, just Teslas), but his antics have pretty much guaranteed I'll never spend a dime on anything with his name attached to it. I agree that Mark Zucerberg is a douche, but notice that he is very careful to not take a public stance on hot button issues.
When companies like CFA start dictating to you the customer that this is what you like, we know better and axe the only foods they had I was interested in and ruin others is when I stop patronizing them. CFA is dead to me after axing the Chicken Egg and Cheese bagel and farking with limiting drink sizes and other things. That BS like Instagram trying to be tikitok, mcdonalds or burger king trying to be cool or whatever is crap. Do what you do best and innovate on that. Don't try and shovel crap into people and claim they want that. We all hate it.
 

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So what’s the mechanism from removing their wealth? The big few millionaires (Musk, Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, Buffet, etc) all got their start founding* companies that became very influential and lucrative, and most of their wealth is just their shares of ownership of those companies. If they don’t deserve to own these companies, who do you give it to when you take it away from them?


*for some of them “founding” isn’t quite literal, but all took the companies and built them into what it is today, let’s skip the
The only way you do that is busting up the ability to make money. Kill conglomerates and large corporations and bust them up like Bell into the baby bells and keep them small and regional. Pass laws where all salaries have to based on the same metric, so if the C suite people are getting bonus on whatever, then everyone gets the same amounts.

The real reckoning is coming that and that's gonna be serialization of securities and blockchain operations of the financial industry. Then no one is gonna be able to hide anything, it'll all be out in the open and there's no way to fudge it.
 

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So what’s the mechanism from removing their wealth? The big few millionaires (Musk, Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, Buffet, etc) all got their start founding* companies that became very influential and lucrative, and most of their wealth is just their shares of ownership of those companies. If they don’t deserve to own these companies, who do you give it to when you take it away from them?


*for some of them “founding” isn’t quite literal, but all took the companies and built them into what it is today, let’s skip the
The problem isn’t that they’re billionaires, the problem is that these people and their companies weld so much influence that it can be detrimental to balance . Do you really want one company or person controlling what you see on the Internet, news and TV for example ?
 

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No good person becomes a billionaire. That's reality. Only semi-awful people do what it takes to become giants in their field, and are either a bit defective, or willing to sacrifice so much of the other parts of their lives (because no one can have it all). That applies to any 'great man' in history, from military leaders to today's CEOs. At the very least, they are so driven they will sacrifice traditional happiness in the pursuit of fame and treasure.

That said, i admire intelligence and that sort of drive when it delivers something that is beneficial. I am not a fanboy, but heck, the man was a young multi-millionaire worth a couple hundred million after selling off paypal. He could have pissed away the rest of his life living a life of extreme leisure having poured his early youth into something that succeeded- and that's what I would have likely done were I in his shoes. I would live the kind of car life that would make our beloved Toaster, Dave and other well-heeled enthusiasts blush. My biggest challenge would have been which (insert car) to order until the next (insert car) comes up on allocation, and in which house to park it between trips around the world with a few playmates in tow.

Instead he took on what he saw as a problem, and has done that with both cars and rockets (and internet). Society will benefit from this, you have to admire the fact he took electric cars from being mocked to the entire industry now shifting in response - that is unbelievable. Then he is doing the stuff with Space X, and the sat internet, on and on. Every one of them so far has delivered actual massive improvements over what was the industry standard (except for things like Boring company but who knows the long-term plan there).

I don't like some of what Tesla is planning (it wants cars to be self-driving pods - yuck) and clearly they aren't into enthusiasts of driving which I hope BMW and others cater to as BEVs mature, but it is marching to its own tune, following a plan that has been clearly laid out, can't fault them for that. When Tesla went down the Model 3 path, i really didn't know if there would be much demand beyond the first couple of years for their mainstream BEVs, and it seemed silly for them to move away from their rich tech world core where they could have just been a small premium maker of cars catering to silicon valley. Why purposely move down-market when every carmaker tries to move up-market? Because they wanted to do more than just be a Porsche type car maker.

I also like and at least respect his oddness, that at least he does not spew absolute non-speak like, for example, Apple's CEO, or even Barra to look at the auto industry. The amount of review and polish things get from multiple departments in big companies before ever seeing the public eye ensures nothing real really gets said. By contrast, you have this odd, driven semi-crazed dude tapping out tweets at random hours, while running multiple companies and living an extremely odd personal life. I'll take that over Tim Cook with his stupid V sign and empty smile, or any CEO that is kept on a tight leash lest they say the wrong thing.

At least with Musk, you know how strange he is, and he does not seem to hide too much behind a carefully cultivated image of niceness, while being a depraved freak in private, like so many people.
 

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The problem isn’t that they’re billionaires, the problem is that these people and their companies weld so much influence that it can be detrimental to balance . Do you really want one company or person controlling what you see on the Internet, news and TV for example ?
That’s a different question than “billionaires shouldn’t exist.” I absolutely agree that individuals shouldn’t have the kind of control that they do, especially Zuck. But that wasn’t the discussion.
 

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I think if we went back to enforcing antitrust laws and breaking up companies that grow too large, then billionaires wouldn't be able to so easily exist. Sure, there would be a few here and there, but not people with eight and nine digit net worths, and certainly not hundreds of billionaires.
 

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I think if we went back to enforcing antitrust laws and breaking up companies that grow too large, then billionaires wouldn't be able to so easily exist. Sure, there would be a few here and there, but not people with eight and nine digit net worths, and certainly not hundreds of billionaires.
The problem is how you break up global companies with the kind of reach of some of them.

Tesla is really only large in market cap; in size and sales they certainly aren’t bigger then Ford or GM or Toyota or VW.

FB, yeah, strip them of Insta and WhatsApp, I’m cool with that, but beyond that?

Amazon? I dunno. How do you downsize that?

MS, there was some targeted anti-trust stuff there already, someone smarter than me can opine on more

Berskshire, what do you do? Bar him from investing more?
 

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No good person becomes a billionaire. That's reality. Only semi-awful people do what it takes to become giants in their field, and are either a bit defective, or willing to sacrifice so much of the other parts of their lives (because no one can have it all). That applies to any 'great man' in history, from military leaders to today's CEOs. At the very least, they are so driven they will sacrifice traditional happiness in the pursuit of fame and treasure.
Eh sometimes it is just luck and math.

At one point in 2021 I was worth a hypothetical 800ish million I'm wrong. north of $1,654,000,000 at ATH of 68,991. It's less than half that now. All I did was fark around on computers doing crap a decade before everyone else discovered bitcoin. I would consider myself a good person. All my money has gone into my dogs, and non profits. All I've done is make sure I'm financially secure. I personally haven't sold a single bitcoin, but I've given quite a few away or sold them for the benefit of others who had a genuine need for money to fall out of the sky. I still have credit cards and car payments. My house is paid for and that's it. There's enough put into trusts so I and my family ( wife and dogs ) are set if anything ever happened to me.

edit this is why I don't look that crap up. now I'm just stewing over things wonder wtf I should be doing with it all.
 

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I think if we went back to enforcing antitrust laws and breaking up companies that grow too large, then billionaires wouldn't be able to so easily exist. Sure, there would be a few here and there, but not people with eight and nine digit net worths, and certainly not hundreds of billionaires.
What's the catalyst for a break up though? Anti-trust laws are there to prevent monopoly power, Tesla has less than 5% market share, so it's rather difficult to call them a monopoly. Other than severing Tesla energy, how would you even divide up the company when it only has two U.S. manufacturing plants (and the second one only very recently opened and not yet at full capacity)?

What's happened to make Musk so wealthy is that the stock's value is totally out of sync with the size and profitability of the company. Tesla recently reported earnings per share of $2.27, with shares priced at $900 a share. Compare to that to independent oil producer Devon Energy, with earnings per share of $2.59 but a share price of only $60. If Tesla was being valued like an oil company, Musk would be worth 1/15th of what he's worth. But because the market assigns Tesla arbitrarily large tech valuation, it can go to the moon. But how does a regulator force investors to value a company without ruining the market itself?
 

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So what’s the mechanism from removing their wealth?
Tax them. You don't become a billionaire by working hard. You become one by acquiring shares and avoiding taxes.

To be clear, I'm not talking about burning everything to the ground. It's more just the absolute insane duality that's happening everywhere. We got dudes measuring cockrockets trying to get to Mars while this planet is burning and nearly every major U.S. city has a Hooverville somewhere.
 

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Tax them. You don't become a billionaire by working hard. You become one by acquiring shares and avoiding taxes.
Let's assume you imposed an immediate tax at ordinary rates for wealth above $1 billion. That just means Musk is worth $150 billion instead of $250 billion. Not like it would strip him of his mega-billionaire status.
 

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Let's assume you imposed an immediate tax at ordinary rates for wealth above $1 billion. That just means Musk is worth $150 billion instead of $250 billion. Not like it would strip him of his mega-billionaire status.
I understand that. I'm not pretending that any mitigating measures going forward would reverse time. I'm not advocating for Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos give their money away. It is what it is.
 

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Tax them. You don't become a billionaire by working hard. You become one by acquiring shares and avoiding taxes.

To be clear, I'm not talking about burning everything to the ground. It's more just the absolute insane duality that's happening everywhere. We got dudes measuring cockrockets trying to get to Mars while this planet is burning and nearly every major U.S. city has a Hooverville somewhere.
You can’t, under current US law, tax something that hasn’t been realized. Say Musk when he owned his McLaren F1. He paid, in round numbers, $1M for it. Well now they trade at around $20M. We don’t say “you only paid sales tax on a $1M car, now it’s worth $20M you owe us more taxes.” When he sells it (he already sold it but bear with me), we can hit him with capital gains tax, but until it’s sold, it doesn’t matter, he hasn’t realized that wealth.

It’s the same way I can avoid taxes by dumping $18k or $19k or whatever it is per year into a 401k. I’ll get taxed on that money when I realize it (dump it into my bank account). Until then I don’t have access to it, so I don’t get taxed on it.
 

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Tax them. You don't become a billionaire by working hard. You become one by acquiring shares and avoiding taxes.

To be clear, I'm not talking about burning everything to the ground. It's more just the absolute insane duality that's happening everywhere. We got dudes measuring cockrockets trying to get to Mars while this planet is burning and nearly every major U.S. city has a Hooverville somewhere.
Even if you do tax someone like that, that will force the person to sell off assets to pay tax. That could potentially screw thousands of employees, ruin 401ks destroy the S&P in the process , and potentially widen the inequality gap.
 

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I am one of those people who are likely not going to buy a Tesla until Musk leaves the company.

And it's not just because of his Twitter antics. His attitudes are cavalier on a lot of issues, including build quality, delivering on promises, and future vision.

Until that changes, I don't see buying a Tesla.
That's where I am too. I am under no illusions that the management of any company is full of perfect humans, and I respect the engineering that goes into Teslas' powertrains, battery management, etc, but I just don't trust the company to not push out an OTA update driven my Musk's latest manic obsession that does something stupid with the UI or makes the car actively dangerous. As long as Musk is in charge at Tesla my first EV will come from a boring old "regular" car company that isn't subject to the whims of a single mercurial individual.
 

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I ****ing love CFA. I ****ing love it so much. I took my wife there for the first time and her eyes basically rolled into the back of her head. There's something in the meat.
The chicken is soaked in pickle juice overnight.
you're welcome.
 
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I am one of those people who are likely not going to buy a Tesla until Musk leaves the company.

And it's not just because of his Twitter antics. His attitudes are cavalier on a lot of issues, including build quality, delivering on promises, and future vision.

Until that changes, I don't see buying a Tesla.
I look forward to one day owning an EV and am happy that there's no reason for it to be a Tesla. And Musk is very much a reason why. His behavior on every front is, at the very least, extremely distasteful. He may have brought value in the start-up phase but I'm not sure what he brings now. Keeping the meme stock afloat? The company's sales may be strong but it's stagnating beneath him. No new models in years, apparently no plans to replace the models they have, the lack of interest in build quality, the FSD nonsense, etc.

The only concrete advantage Tesla has left is the Supercharger network and that appears about to open up. With extremely appealing new models coming from Ford, GM, Hyundai, etc., Musk's Twitter antics are soon going to be the only things keeping Tesla from being an after thought.
 

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My refusal to pay above MSRP and direct pricing got me into a Model 3. It's the first car I've owned that I don't want to get rid of after a few months. The next time I need a refresh, I'll get a Model 3 Performance or another Tesla.

Two weeks after I got the Jeep Wrangler 4xe, I'm back to giving other cars the side eye. My 4xe would be gone if I could afford a new Civic Type R, Golf R, or GR Corolla. I'll probably get another Tesla if I can't find one of those at a reasonable price.
 
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