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While this is a lousy issue, it's different than the Tesla problems IMO. The door panels didn't start warping until years of heat exposure from what I know of the issue. It's not like poor panel fit, bumpers falling off, glass exploding etc.
I suppose. But if youre on the internet looking for an issue you can find someone having a bad car with any brand. Yes statistically tesla's build quality is probably below average. but guess what. order it, if its bad, make them fix it. or buy a used one that doesnt have the issue. this is coming from someone that could absolutely give 2 ****s about tesla and their cars.
 

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Am I the only one who cares if cars are fast AF? Both of my cars are already too fast to really exploit on public roads. Give me something involving and fun, I don't care about sickness inducing acceleration.
I think it's thrilling to to have 100% torque applied instantly coming out of a turn. Don't have to be going fast or break any laws to enjoy that.
I do agree that driving slow cars fast is just as enjoyable.

Have you test driven a Model 3? The steering is HEAVY (in sport) and extremely direct. It feels really good. Low center of gravity, 50/50 weight distribution, it's not a boring car by any means. Only downside is that the steering FEEDBACK isn't as good (feels electronic as expected). But man, I can tell you that I found it to be pretty dam fun in the 10-15mins I drove it.

My concern with Tesla isn't even the panel gaps (they can fix most of them after), the issue is the THIN paint. I've seen photos of rockers just getting destroyed right to bare metal. I'd be very upset to buy a 50k+ car and then have paint chips within a year. Everyone does PPF, but that shouldn't be required...and is not a solution unless you're doing the whole dam car (stupid).
 
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What's the background on this? Who is this guy/company and what's the background on the car? He makes it pretty clear this is the car's second time around through being looked over since he notes things like the chrome being eliminated.
 

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What's the background on this? Who is this guy/company and what's the background on the car? He makes it pretty clear this is the car's second time around through being looked over since he notes things like the chrome being eliminated.
Sandy is a national treasure for us car people. After many years at OEMs, he started this company that takes apart mostly cars, and provides costing reports. They then sell these reports to other OEMs. If you are a Chinese company trying to make a new F150, well, the report tells you what every single nut and bolt and seam cost to make and how to make it or who did it. Find some of his interviews on Autoline Daily. Absolutely fascinating seeing him chat about anything. He was very early in publicly saying Tesla was a decade ahead of anyone but had the credentials to actually make those statements about the technology. He also bags on build quality and has advised them on how to improve production.
 

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What's the background on this? Who is this guy/company and what's the background on the car? He makes it pretty clear this is the car's second time around through being looked over since he notes things like the chrome being eliminated.
Jalop's article:

Funny thing is that Munro recently admitted that he made money on his Tesla stock when he sold it.
 

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I have a client who became a Tesla-certified body shop early on when the Model S wasn't of age to go to middle school. He currently makes most of his money fixing new Teslas that have problematic panel fit and paint. Very little of it comes from actual collisions. He said he is glad that Tesla still can't assemble a car to save their lives, since it is a cash cow for him.
 

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Man, so I'm watching Tesla video after Tesla video trying to get all hyped up to buy one and then I stumble on this quality review of a brand new 2021...


And I'm just like, man... they still can't hang a door properly or put a trunk on properly.

But then maybe it's looking at a Playboy and getting mad about spelling mistakes. I dunno....

It just all comes back to I look at the car and it just does not look like an $86,000CDN (tax included) car. It looks like an Accord.
The Accord is better-looking.
 

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The most thrilling experience is taking it to the track and enjoying the car to its potential. Last I looked, Tesla does not have driver educational days at Mosport. Keep the R. It's the best $25k car you can own based on the value today. Spend your spare change on a real car that can be really opened up and give you a real adrenaline kick.

0-100 sprints and instant torque is really satisfying, but so is a great heel & toe down shift around the corner to an on ramp that you get to punch it to highway speeds. On the street, there is only so much you can do. Driving an instant torque appliance is fun but no where as engaging as a proper car with a manual transmission.
 

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Focal I hear ya. A manual car isn't going to happen again for me I'm solidly a dual-clutch automatic gearbox kinda guy now, but I agree about the driving experience being about way more than just acceleration. And I have seen time and time again from test driving all these cars that nothing can touch the $25K R for fun.

So that said, what do you guys guess would be the more 'fun' and 'engaging' car to drive between a Taycan 4S and a Panamera 4S? If you had both sitting in your roofless garage on a warm Sunday morning which would you rather jump in to for a spirited drive?
 

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Loaded Panamera over a stripped Taycan

All

Day

Long.


The electric options in 2 or 3 years are going to be monumentally better by the time the lease is up on whatever you buy/lease short term.

Trunk in Panamera probably more usable, but less middle hump in rear seat of the Taycan.

Wood
Knot
Leese
Taycan

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
 

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Focal I hear ya. A manual car isn't going to happen again for me I'm solidly a dual-clutch automatic gearbox kinda guy now, but I agree about the driving experience being about way more than just acceleration. And I have seen time and time again from test driving all these cars that nothing can touch the $25K R for fun.

So that said, what do you guys guess would be the more 'fun' and 'engaging' car to drive between a Taycan 4S and a Panamera 4S? If you had both sitting in your roofless garage on a warm Sunday morning which would you rather jump in to for a spirited drive?
The best car to get in 2021 is a PHEV. Especially one with enough EV range to cover the day's driving. The best low key one is the Rav4 Prime. In the premium, there is the Volvo XC40 Recharge or 330e from BMW.

That said, I'd keep the R and get a Cayman 4.0 or a GT4. Let EV sort itself out in 3-5 years to be very viable.

"Taycan 4S and a Panamera 4S" the Panamera 4 e-hybrid is the better play. Your commute is pretty short and you can just squeeze a round trip on EV only. I find the Taycan interior not to my liking. The materials seem to be a slight downgrade. The backseat is a bit tight getting in and out too.
 

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Focal I hear ya. A manual car isn't going to happen again for me I'm solidly a dual-clutch automatic gearbox kinda guy now, but I agree about the driving experience being about way more than just acceleration. And I have seen time and time again from test driving all these cars that nothing can touch the $25K R for fun.

So that said, what do you guys guess would be the more 'fun' and 'engaging' car to drive between a Taycan 4S and a Panamera 4S? If you had both sitting in your roofless garage on a warm Sunday morning which would you rather jump in to for a spirited drive?
RS5 :ROFLMAO:

but for me? an ev isnt going to make me want to just "go for a drive" the car will need an engine and an exhaust for that. ev's to me are appliances meant for getting you from pt a to pt b.i wouldnt be taking an ev out just for a joy ride
 

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RS5 :ROFLMAO:

but for me? an ev isnt going to make me want to just "go for a drive" the car will need an engine and an exhaust for that. ev's to me are appliances meant for getting you from pt a to pt b.i wouldnt be taking an ev out just for a joy ride
You need to drive these uber EV's. The Taycan and 3 Performance are impressive but I value different things. That said, I think if I lived in an area that had better roads I'd drive more just for fun. I value my annual trip to PA to drive the back roads there. Closest I can get to enjoy public roads.

Even the rental vehicles driving along Hwy 1 in CA or in the Santa Monica hills is so much fun.
 

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A few cars back, I was driving a ‘16 R with a stick and now have ‘21 model 3 SR+. The Tesla is not even the LR AWD model, but I still find it a hoot to drive. I’ve been able to get the RWD to kick the rear end out around tighter corners, and I can appreciate the excellent job tesla has done with the suspension of a relatively heavy car. The SR+ feels just as quick as the R off the line, and comes alive around ~30mph. It can still pin you in the seat at highway speeds.

We traded our 2020 Xc60 for the model 3 last month and I’d be hard pressed to tell any difference in build quality. I was expecting panel gaps on delivery, but found nothing. The interior materials are probably a touch lower quality compared with the Volvo, especially the fake leather on the steering wheel, but on par with the R. We also got the white interior, where the seats feel super plush.

There are issues with the Tesla brand, but my experience coming from traditional ICE vehicles has been fantastic. We literally bought the car online and had it delivered at our home. I didn’t walk into a Tesla store, DMV, anything.
 

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You need to drive these uber EV's. The Taycan and 3 Performance are impressive but I value different things. That said, I think if I lived in an area that had better roads I'd drive more just for fun. I value my annual trip to PA to drive the back roads there. Closest I can get to enjoy public roads.

Even the rental vehicles driving along Hwy 1 in CA or in the Santa Monica hills is so much fun.
I have, sans the Taycan. To me driving experience is more than just a powerful car like an EV. Its the entire package. It's being engaged. Noise, shifting, etc.
 

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The best car to get in 2021 is a PHEV. Especially one with enough EV range to cover the day's driving. The best low key one is the Rav4 Prime.
Suggesting a RAV4 Prime in a hawc thread?!?!?!

63890
 

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I have, sans the Taycan. To me driving experience is more than just a powerful car like an EV. Its the entire package. It's being engaged. Noise, shifting, etc.
I think we are in the same mindset. I have an EV and ICE. I love both experiences. You just won't see me take the EV to PA for back road blasts. You definitely need the sound to help with the enjoyment and the extra engagement of the shifter too. I like knowing which gear I am in and the limits by the vibrations, sounds and noises the car makes.
 
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Difference is exactly what you'd expect. S isn't a rocketship and doesn't violently throw you back the way an X3 M40i will. It just makes a little more noise, maybe a hint more vibration, and gets to speed noticably more quickly. Probably worth it to most but I wouldn't consider it a must-be.

Also I adore the 2.0T+PDK combo. The DSGs are very good but in a GTI I'd prefer the manual. Even though this isn't the "real" PDK, it makes 2.0T shifts like I've never felt before. Incredible. I'd take it over the 6MT they don't offer.
I think the weight increase (comparing Golf to Macan) would make the performance of the Macan seem rather lame. I had a guy in a Macan Turbo try to lose me on the highway and he didn't do a very good job of it- 50-100 runs and I didn't lose much ground at all in the V70R. Off the line, he would destroy my car, but on the highway, rather disappointing. He got really aggressive and wild with his driving after he couldn't lose me in a straight line, cutting everyone off and swerving all over the place.
 

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I think the weight increase (comparing Golf to Macan) would make the performance of the Macan seem rather lame. I had a guy in a Macan Turbo try to lose me on the highway and he didn't do a very good job of it- 50-100 runs and I didn't lose much ground at all in the V70R. Off the line, he would destroy my car, but on the highway, rather disappointing. He got really aggressive and wild with his driving after he couldn't lose me in a straight line, cutting everyone off and swerving all over the place.
Street driving speed is all about guts/nerves/stupidity
 

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I had a guy in a Macan Turbo try to lose me on the highway and he didn't do a very good job of it. He got really aggressive and wild with his driving after he couldn't lose me in a straight line, cutting everyone off and swerving all over the place.

Why were you chasing him so hard?
 
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