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Discussion Starter · #7,621 ·
Your B-roads (I think that's a British term not a Canadian one) used to be all 80km/h but are now all 60km/h. You drive them like they're 80km/h so you naturally do about 100 km/h and all of a sudden you're 40km/h over and qualify for stunt driving. 30 days suspension. $10,000 fine. No chance of ever being insured again and now you're riding an e-bike like some alcoholic with a DUI charge. No sir, I'll take my rampin' any day over that! ;)
 

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Your B-roads (I think that's a British term not a Canadian one) used to be all 80km/h but are now all 60km/h. You drive them like they're 80km/h so you naturally do about 100 km/h and all of a sudden you're 40km/h over and qualify for stunt driving. 30 days suspension. $10,000 fine. No chance of ever being insured again and now you're riding an e-bike like some alcoholic with a DUI charge. No sir, I'll take my rampin' any day over that! ;)
You’re further proving my point.
 

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You’re further proving my point.
Definitely making less and less sense these days, for sure.
Though, to be fair, have we really ever been able to go crazy on public roads... it's just more punitive now.

While having 400, 500, 600hp etc. doesn't make a ton of sense, there are opportunities to safely wring it out a bit.
I have 300hp in a 3300lb car, feels like all I could use and want in the city, but different strokes for different folks.
My BIL has a 562hp stelvio, it's still a bunch of fun around town when the time is right.
 

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Definitely making less and less sense these days, for sure.
Though, to be fair, have we really ever been able to go crazy on public roads... it's just more punitive now.

While having 400, 500, 600hp etc. doesn't make a ton of sense, there are opportunities to safely wring it out a bit.
I have 300hp in a 3300lb car, feels like all I could use and want in the city, but different strokes for different folks.
My BIL has a 562hp stelvio, it's still a bunch of fun around town when the time is right.
Totally agree, we have had too much street performance available to the masses for well over a decade now. I'm just being grumpy about moving from somewhere with reasonably proximate driving roads/skiing/hiking/etc. to... the GTA. :p
 

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Your B-roads (I think that's a British term not a Canadian one) used to be all 80km/h but are now all 60km/h. You drive them like they're 80km/h so you naturally do about 100 km/h and all of a sudden you're 40km/h over and qualify for stunt driving. 30 days suspension. $10,000 fine. No chance of ever being insured again and now you're riding an e-bike like some alcoholic with a DUI charge. No sir, I'll take my rampin' any day over that! ;)
It's funny you mention the change in speed limits, I've noticed many local roads have reduced speed limits now, from 60km/h to 50 and from 50 to 40.

Seems pointless to reduce limits on roads that were slow to begin with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7,626 ·
And 40 to 30. My new favourite little piece of insanity. You think a road is 40 km/h but it's 30 km/h for a few blocks as you pass a school zone. You're doing 44km/h (thinking it's a 40) and boom you're a maniac driving 14 km/h over the limit (about the speed most people run at) and you get a $95 fine in the mail from a speeding camera. It's just so stupid. Vision Zero you suck.
 

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And 40 to 30. My new favourite little piece of insanity. You think a road is 40 km/h but it's 30 km/h for a few blocks as you pass a school zone. You're doing 44km/h (thinking it's a 40) and boom you're a maniac driving 14 km/h over the limit (about the speed most people run at) and you get a $95 fine in the mail from a speeding camera. It's just so stupid. Vision Zero you suck.
Where are these speed cameras? Are they clearly marked as such?

No cameras in the west end as far as I know?
 

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And 40 to 30. My new favourite little piece of insanity. You think a road is 40 km/h but it's 30 km/h for a few blocks as you pass a school zone. You're doing 44km/h (thinking it's a 40) and boom you're a maniac driving 14 km/h over the limit (about the speed most people run at) and you get a $95 fine in the mail from a speeding camera. It's just so stupid. Vision Zero you suck.
Just changing the speed limit isn't an effective way to make roads more pedestrian safe when today's average commuter vehicles are so much faster than cars were 20-50 years ago when a lot of the road infrastructure design we're now used to driving on was implemented. I'm all for reshaping urban roads to encourage walking and biking over car use...but slapping a sign, or especially in cities where the roads are often obscured by snow for large swaths of time - painted parts of the road doesn't affect driver behavior the way that advocates hope for.
 

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Just changing the speed limit isn't an effective way to make roads more pedestrian safe when today's average commuter vehicles are so much faster than cars were 20-50 years ago when a lot of the road infrastructure design we're now used to driving on was implemented. I'm all for reshaping urban roads to encourage walking and biking over car use...but slapping a sign, or especially in cities where the roads are often obscured by snow for large swaths of time - painted parts of the road doesn't affect driver behavior the way that advocates hope for.

Let's not forget the revenue opportunity (traffic tickets that punish car owners, not drivers, with zero on street presence or enforcement), and the politics/emotional vote pandering involved.

So far, toronto's vision zero program has cost approximately $265Million in taxpayer funds, not including the additional environmental/carbon producing pollution and productivity loss associated with the additional traffic and congestion. This year, 20 pedestrians have died on the roads as a result of traffic accidents (of a city of 2.93Million people), 20 fewer than last year (40 last year). Now, correlation does not necessarily mean causality (e.g. pandemic traffic is lower, people's commuting habits are different, etc.); but let's say, for sake of argument, that each of those 20 fewer deaths is attributable to vision zero. Great success.

That means each death averted, not including opportunity cost (productivity, time in traffic, additional start/stop and idling related greenhouse gas producing emissions, etc.) cost $13,250,000.

Of course, this is an oversimplification, and at the same time, much of this is driven by emotional rhetoric. The economics just don't add up... what is the actual cost here.

Here's what the hyperbole police are saying:

"Road safety is the number one public and economic concern of our time. As a former law enforcement officer with the Toronto Police Service, tasked with protecting our street’s most vulnerable - I have seen the deadly toll that road violence plays first-hand. I have seen direct collisions, and unfortunately, the carnage that leads to loss of life or limb. I have made it a career to combat road violence by advocating for ways to lessen the tensions with each other while we wait on infrastructure. That is why, I am so excited to have been part of TruceTO - a project aimed at reducing tensions, promoting civility, kindness and patience on our roads. This initiative is an amazing step forward in recognizing personal responsibility in shared public spaces, while we wait for hard physical measures to eliminate conflict by design."
- Kyle Ashley, Street Safety Advocate

Apparently, road safety beats out global war, the climate, the stock market, deforestation, depletion of natural resources, loss of viable farm land, housing, etc. as the MOST troubling public and economic concern. Also, these events are no longer accidents or carelessness, they're violence!

"Improving our road safety in Toronto is urgent and important for the health, safety and well-being of all our residents and communities. We are seeing a devastating rise in road violence across the City. I have been proud to champion the fast-tracking Vision Zero, the City's plan to prevent pedestrian deaths and improve road safety. We need decisive, meaningful and immediate action to protect vulnerable road users, such as pedestrians, cyclists and children, along with the creation of more inclusive and accessible sidewalks and roadways for all road users. Thank you to TruceTO for all your advocacy work in promoting safe streets and healthy communities."
- Kristyn Wong-Tam, Ward 27 Councillor

Apparently EVERY single resident benefits from this program. Also, let's not forget the fact that this is VIOLENCE, as if vulnerable road users are targeted.
Oh and note that children aren't pedestrians, they're children! Will someone think of the children!
 

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And 40 to 30. My new favourite little piece of insanity. You think a road is 40 km/h but it's 30 km/h for a few blocks as you pass a school zone. You're doing 44km/h (thinking it's a 40) and boom you're a maniac driving 14 km/h over the limit (about the speed most people run at) and you get a $95 fine in the mail from a speeding camera. It's just so stupid. Vision Zero you suck.
Can't think of any better proof that Vision Zero was specifically designed to drive revenue hard in its early years than that. Public safety is definitely a scapegoat.
Let's not forget the revenue opportunity (traffic tickets that punish car owners, not drivers, with zero on street presence or enforcement), and the politics/emotional vote pandering involved.

So far, toronto's vision zero program has cost approximately $265Million in taxpayer funds, not including the additional environmental/carbon producing pollution and productivity loss associated with the additional traffic and congestion. This year, 20 pedestrians have died on the roads as a result of traffic accidents (of a city of 2.93Million people), 20 fewer than last year (40 last year). Now, correlation does not necessarily mean causality (e.g. pandemic traffic is lower, people's commuting habits are different, etc.); but let's say, for sake of argument, that each of those 20 fewer deaths is attributable to vision zero. Great success.

That means each death averted, not including opportunity cost (productivity, time in traffic, additional start/stop and idling related greenhouse gas producing emissions, etc.) cost $13,250,000.

Of course, this is an oversimplification, and at the same time, much of this is driven by emotional rhetoric. The economics just don't add up... what is the actual cost here.

Here's what the hyperbole police are saying:


- Kyle Ashley, Street Safety Advocate

Apparently, road safety beats out global war, the climate, the stock market, deforestation, depletion of natural resources, loss of viable farm land, housing, etc. as the MOST troubling public and economic concern. Also, these events are no longer accidents or carelessness, they're violence!


- Kristyn Wong-Tam, Ward 27 Councillor

Apparently EVERY single resident benefits from this program. Also, let's not forget the fact that this is VIOLENCE, as if vulnerable road users are targeted.
Oh and note that children aren't pedestrians, they're children! Will someone think of the children!
I can't remember where, but I read the pedestrian death toll was actually the same as last year, and up from 2020 (for obvious reasons). But I've evidently done less hard research on the stat than you have so I'll defer. Edit: I was rifling through this Reddit thread (in which some decent forensic debate ensued, actually).

It's obvious however that the government is falsely linking any reduction in pedestrian fatalities with Vision Zero success. The way that these cameras have been rolled out makes it blatantly obvious that revenue-generation was mission one. Quebec has been FAR less egregious in its rollout and regulation of these.

If conservatives stay in power, it is only a matter of time before we turn into countries like Italy where even rural roads are nannied very aggressively.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7,631 ·
After 3 weeks of cloudy skies we finally got a brilliant sunny day. Popped down to the port lands early Sunday morning and snapped a few shots. As one does.

Sky Car Tire Vehicle Plant

Sky Plant Tower Tree Natural landscape

Wheel Car Tire Vehicle Grille
 
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Visit NYC and see how a simple end to "right on red lights" helped pedestrian safety. Lowering to 30Km/hr only frustrates a driver but it's slow enough not to kill a pedestrian.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7,633 ·
I could live with no right on reds way more than insanely low speed limits and speed cameras everywhere.
 

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Visit NYC and see how a simple end to "right on red lights" helped pedestrian safety. Lowering to 30Km/hr only frustrates a driver but it's slow enough not to kill a pedestrian.
Agreed. I used to complain about Montreal's no right on red law all the time, but having lived in Toronto and Ottawa now, I am a huge proponent of no right on red in dense city centres. It is actually stupid how dangerous it is, even when you're doing your best to see all the angles before executing.
 

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Agreed. I used to complain about Montreal's no right on red law all the time, but having lived in Toronto and Ottawa now, I am a huge proponent of no right on red in dense city centres. It is actually stupid how dangerous it is, even when you're doing your best to see all the angles before executing.
The only thing I would suggest then is to have a chance for right turn only. At least during busy times. The few time I was in Montreal it was difficult to make a right turn since on the green there were so many pedestrians there wasn't a chance but then on the red I wasn't allowed. But then they'd be crossing across in front of you. An advanced right would be good like the advanced left lights elsewhere.
 

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The only thing I would suggest then is to have a chance for right turn only. At least during busy times. The few time I was in Montreal it was difficult to make a right turn since on the green there were so many pedestrians there wasn't a chance but then on the red I wasn't allowed. But then they'd be crossing across in front of you. An advanced right would be good like the advanced left lights elsewhere.
I think scramble crossings are a great idea for those scenarios. Have a dedicated crosswalk phase with no cars entering the intersection, and an easier time turning when the light is green.

That and use of pedestrian islands + turning lanes, though obviously there's not always room for that in downtowns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7,638 ·
If you ever buy a 2021 RS 5 keep it in DYNAMIC mode at all times.

It's the best balance of everything - suspension, throttle response, exhaust sound etc.

And then if you want to have a bit more fun switch over to the MANUAL side and use the paddles and possibly put it in SPORT.

So DYNAMIC + SPORT+ MANUAL setting is the best that I've found after 18 months of playing around with every different setting under the sun.
 

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If you ever buy a 2021 RS 5 keep it in DYNAMIC mode at all times.

It's the best balance of everything - suspension, throttle response, exhaust sound etc.

And then if you want to have a bit more fun switch over to the MANUAL side and use the paddles and possibly put it in SPORT.

So DYNAMIC + SPORT+ MANUAL setting is the best that I've found after 18 months of playing around with every different setting under the sun.
And yet, you're still driving an automatic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7,640 · (Edited)
And yet, you're still driving an automatic.
Ha! You say that like it's a bad thing.

Automatics are now far superior to manuals. They are nature's will. They are automotive manifest destiny.

Just as doctors no longer believe that four humors influence the body and its emotions, no man of science still believes manuals are better than automatics.

Saying "Yet you still drive an automatic" as a put down, is like when my wife calls me a 'fat pig'. Nothing could bother me less.

If she really wanted to hurt my feelings, she'd remind me that I early apex most corners.

Just as if you really wanted to insult me, you'd say that PDK/DSG is superior to the ZF-8-Speed in the RS 5.

I do miss the double clutch.

Sky Cloud Ecoregion Horse People in nature
 
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