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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wondering if anyone has had any problems with the Low Tire Pressure Warning staying on? I had Nitrogen put in all my tires (including spare) over the weekend and cannot get the Low Tire Pressure Warning to go off. Is there a reset somewhere?
Have over 5000 miles and no problems to date.
My son is a ASE mechanic and swears there should be no difference in using Nitrogen with plain old air to the sensors. Nitrogen keeps internal tire temperatures more stable and is supposed to improve mileage slightly. Seems to be a new trend in tire maintenance.
Contacted a VW dealer's service department. They had no clue.
Anyone here had any experience with this?
 

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Re: EOS Tire Sensors & Nitrogen (KMSBball)

There is a very comprehensive discussion about how TPMS systems work at this post in the Phaeton forum: Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design and Function. Be aware, though, that the Eos has a newer, more sophisticated system than the Phaeton, so there may be differences.
As for the Nitrogen - heck, plain old air is 80% nitrogen, so personally, I kind of doubt that going from 80% nitrogen up to 100% nitrogen would make much of a difference. I suggest that you check the pressures in your tires, and make sure that they are the same as what is specified on the sticker on the driver side B pillar.
Michael
 

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Re: (KMSBball)

Have a look in the owner manual and see if there is a procedure described for 'adapting' the TPMS system. Often the language used will talk about a 'learning mode'.
If the tires were removed from the vehicle, and not replaced in exactly the same positions, the car might be a bit confused - it will be looking for a sensor with a specific serial number in one corner of the car, and that sensor won't be there. So, you might have to 'reset' the system, so to speak.
Your owner manual will describe how to do this, but one point that cannot be stressed enough is that the tires need to be at prevailing ambient temperature before you start the process. So, if you live in Minnesota, and it is -20 degrees outside, that means leaving the car outside the garage for one night to let temperatures normalize, then performing the reset, or adaptation, or learning process, or whatever the owner manual calls it first thing next morning.
Michael
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Good thought. I did have the tires rotated without thinking about the sensors being for a specific location. Already checked the manual once and did not find any information about reseting the sensors but will look again. Thanks.
Ken
 

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Re: (Bef)

Well - although it is possible that the car may need that software flash, one key point that needs to be considered here is that everything worked just fine before the wheels were removed. For that reason, I think it is more probable that the TPMS system needs to be re-adapted (by the owner) in order to solve the problem.
TB's are useful little tidbits of knowledge, but they come second to the instructions contained in the owner manual.
Michael
 

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Why are people wasting money on nitrogen in tires when the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen

Here in Ontario most tire vendors are trying to get people to pay $5 per tire to fill their tires with nitrogen. They list many advantages but I think it is an amazing cash grab when the air around us is already 78% nitrogen. The removal of the 22% oxygen can only make a very small difference in the performance of the tire. If you really want to make your tires last and perform to their design specifications check the air pressure regularly. I wonder how many places are just pumping air into tires as very few customers have the equipment to verify the difference?
Your thoughts?
RET
 

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Re: Why are people wasting money on nitrogen in tires when the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen (RET)

I'll bet they are selling cow magnets for the fuel lines and and the "tornado" for the intakes too...
 

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Re: Why are people wasting money on nitrogen in tires when the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen (RET)

Here is an article I found on google for you...
http://ezinearticles.com/?Sell...38142
For me, the biggest reason to do this, to quote the article, is ... "According to the Michelin Tire Manual, a tire that is inflated with Nitrogen loses its pressure 3 times slower than if it were inflated with air."
That right there is substantially important, as in the Midwest we can get 30º or greater temperature swings in a single day. That accounts for a big change in tire pressures when running just air, and can also change the moisture levels as well.
For the Eos its not a huge deal, you have TPMS, so if your pressure changes you would still have to fiddle, but at least you'd be warned about it by the car. However most people on the road still lack a tire pressure monitoring system of any sort, and would benefit to know that chances are even tho its now 30+ degrees colder this evening, their tire pressures are just where they want them.



Modified by Shaka at 7:45 AM 11-3-2006
 

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Re: Why are people wasting money on nitrogen in tires when the air we breathe ... (Shaka)

I'm going to have to agree, I think paying money for 100% nitrogen is silly. I'll take my $5 and buy an apple martini instead.
I bought a MAC700 for doing my tires for about $180 at Amazon.com and its great. Its got a real oil lube compressor, instead of teflon coated junk. Its super quiet, its compact because its only 2 gallons and takes up little space, and because of the small tank size it gets to 100psi in about 45 seconds so you can do bicycle tires quick and easy. highly recommended.





Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 3:05 PM 11-3-2006
 

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Re: Why are people wasting money on nitrogen in tires when the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen (RET)

Rudie:
One thing we need to be careful about in these text-only forums is taking shots at other people's ideas or projects. This is because in a text only communication medium such as these forums, your words may not come across exactly how you meant them... in other words, even though you didn't mean any personal offense, someone else might take it the wrong way.
So, please be careful about creating a post with a title such as "Why are people wasting money..." The best thing to do, if you see something that you think is inappropriate or not a good idea, is to present your thoughts so that they speak directly to the subject (nitrogen in tires) and not to the individual forum member (Wasting money).
I don't mean to sound like 'Miss Manners' here, but we need to be really, really careful about stuff like this if we want our forum to be a pleasant, friendly place to visit at the end of the day.
Thanks to you (and to everyone else, too) for your consideration of this request.
Michael
 

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Re: Why are people wasting money on nitrogen in tires when the air we breathe ... (Shaka)

Quote, originally posted by Shaka »
For me, the biggest reason to do this, to quote the article, is ... "According to the Michelin Tire Manual, a tire that is inflated with Nitrogen loses its pressure 3 times slower than if it were inflated with air."
...in the Midwest we can get 30º or greater temperature swings in a single day. That accounts for a big change in tire pressures when running just air...

Ari:
There is a bit of a flaw in your logic there, I think. I believe that you are mixing two different concepts up, one being permeability of the tire (you state that the nitrogen takes 3 times longer to work its way through the rubber), and the other being pressure changes that take place as a result of outside air temperature changes.
I can't speak to the permeability issue - I don't know whether Nitrogen offers any advantages here or not, but I'll take your word for it. However...
When the outside air temperature changes, the pressure inside the tire is going to change, regardless of whether you have filled it with plain old air, nitrogen, aroma therapy, or unobtainium.
This is because when the prevailing air temperature drops, the air surrounding the tire becomes denser, and when the prevailing air temperature rises, the air surrounding the tire becomes less dense. These external changes result in a change of the differential pressure between what is trapped inside the tire and what surrounds it... and this is what we see when we check the tire with a pressure gauge. We are checking differential pressure (difference between ambient and what is inside the tire), not absolute pressure. By example, if you inflated your tire to 30 PSI, then tossed it in the back of an unpressurized aircraft and climbed up to where the atmospheric pressure was much less than sea level, then checked the tire pressure, it would be higher. This is the differential pressure issue I refer to.
Personally, I just use plain old air in my tires, even though in the work I do (as an aircraft pilot and engineer) I use nitrogen for the aircraft tires. Nitrogen has one big advantage - it is dry - but now that most automotive wheels are made of aluminum, we don't need to worry about corrosion on the inside of them. As for the TPMS sensor - it is mounted directly opposite the valve, so there would have to be a ton of water in there before the sensor ever got wet. You would have a horrible out of balance condition long before the sensor ever failed.
Michael
 

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Re: Why are people wasting money on nitrogen in tires when the air we breathe ... (PanEuropean)

Just a PS: I should point out that the main reason that aircraft tires get filled with nitrogen is because we always have a bottle of nitrogen around for servicing landing gear shock struts, hydraulic pressure accumulators, and stuff like that, so it makes sense to just grab this bottle and use it to fill the tires too.
If a plane gets stuck at an out station with a flat tire, and someone has to fly out and fix it, you can bet that they ain't gonna take a nitrogen bottle with them... that tire is going to get filled with plain old air at the local gas station.

Michael
 

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Re: Why are people wasting money on nitrogen in tires when the air we breathe ... (PanEuropean)

Just as important as pressure changes to the ambient air, are the pressure changes that take place inside the tires due to temperature changes caused by road surface temperature and friction. Go for a good drive on a hot day, and your tire pressures can more than double.
The tire shop that was trying to upsell me on nitrogen claimed that the main advantage with 100% nitrogen is that it expands less than air when heated up, effectively reducing the amount of pressure "swing" between hot and cold tires. (theorectically, this could explain the 3 times slower pressure loss. the lower the differential pressure between ambient air pressure and the pressure inside the tire, the less "air" that would forced through the permiability of the rubber)
Not sure if he was giving me the straight goods or not, or how much difference removing 20% oxygen from the mix would really make.
I decided not to buy in, here in Alberta, we spend more time driving in the cold than in the heat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Why are people wasting money on nitrogen in tires when the air we breathe ... (just4fun)

Boy, I didn't know what I was starting with my question.
1st My son the ASE technician has always given me good advice (he talked me in to buying my Jetta TDI which I loved). Believe me I get excellent service on my vehicles from his company.
I had my EOS for a few weeks and was in another town on a sales call when my Low Pressure Warning came on. I had already traveled over 50 mile on a cool September morning. Turns out the change in outdoor temperature had lowered the pressure in my tires setting off the sensor. If Nitrogen will prevent this from happening again it's worth $20 to $25 on a $38,000 car. Fortunately for me, I was not charged for the Nitrogen as I was having my tires rotated.
2nd I think the rotation is what screwed up my sensor system so I have scheduled an appointment with a VW dealership. Very nervous about using them because I'm not certain they know anything more than the experts on this forum.
My appointment is to fix the sensor problem and to get the satellite radio software upgrade. When i called for the appointment, they were not aware of either situation. Doesn't make me feel very confident.
But these are great cars in my opinion. Thanks to all who posted on this thread.
Ken
 
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