F1 in China...SPOILER WARNING

2291 Views 26 Replies 20 Participants Last post by Kessler, Oct 20, 2008

AutoEuphoria

Discussion Starter · Oct 19, 2008

SPOILERS BELOW
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So if F1 bans team orders, does anyone think that Massa/Raikkonen pass is going to bring about any sort of fine or punishment or anything? I mean, how blatantly obvious were they going to make it? He might as well have waved him through or jumped into the pits for no reason.

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1 - 20 of 27 Posts

umeng2002

· #2 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: F1 in China...SPOILER WARNING (AutoEuphoria)

not a chance in hell because it's Ferrari.

AutoEuphoria

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 19, 2008

I love how Hamilton called them on it, saying "it was inevitable that massa would get around Kimi", then how Massa just said he was driving strong at that time of the race, only to have Kimi say "it's what the team wanted". Pretty funny stuff, although it's a given that nothing will come of it. Kimi basically admitted to it, and Massa tried to deny it. Pretty interesting team dynamics going on there.

MikkiJayne

· #4 · Oct 19, 2008

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Re: (AutoEuphoria)

Mm the British commentators were predicting that from halfway through, even to the point of saying 'we thought they would have swapped over sooner just in case there was a safety car'.
Thoughts are that McLaren won't complain about it so they have the same luxury next race. Of course if they do it they'll get stripped of their points and the win, but hey such is F1

Anyway it wasn't 'team' orders - it was Kimi's decision, so thats ok

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Bains

· #5 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: (MikkiJayne)

Whats wrong with helping a teammate? I'm pretty sure Kimi knows whats going on, he's not stupid, he ain't gonna win, he should let Massa have the chance.

MagicGLIturbo

· #6 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: (Bains)

seriously, you guys are overreacting. this isn't team orders, Kimi could've not let Massa by if he felt like it. There's a big difference between "team orders" and helping out your team/teammate at virtually no expense to yourself.
what Kimi did was perfectly legal, and drivers do it all the time.

MikkiJayne

· #7 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: (MagicGLIturbo)

Quote, originally posted by MagicGLIturbo »

Know the rules well so you can break them properly.

Lol! Perfect timing for a sig like that

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[email protected]

· #8 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: (Bains)

Quote, originally posted by Bains »

Whats wrong with helping a teammate? I'm pretty sure Kimi knows whats going on, he's not stupid, he ain't gonna win, he should let Massa have the chance.

Exactly. Kimi did nothing wrong here. And to the OP, team orders are already not allowed, but how are you going to prove that Ferrari explicitly told Kimi to let Massa by?

BRealistic

· #9 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: ([email protected])

Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »

Exactly. Kimi did nothing wrong here. And to the OP, team orders are already not allowed, but how are you going to prove that Ferrari explicitly told Kimi to let Massa by?

Yep. Because Kimi is always letting teammates easily pass him. It's just the way he is.
Seriously- this would probably only matter to F1 is McLaren did it to help Hamilton.

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1SICKLEX

· #10 · Oct 19, 2008

3

Re: (AutoEuphoria)

Quote, originally posted by AutoEuphoria »

I love how Hamilton called them on it, saying "it was inevitable that massa would get around Kimi", then how Massa just said he was driving strong at that time of the race, only to have Kimi say "it's what the team wanted". Pretty funny stuff, although it's a given that nothing will come of it. Kimi basically admitted to it, and Massa tried to deny it. Pretty interesting team dynamics going on there.

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PocketAce

· #11 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: (BRealistic)

Quote, originally posted by BRealistic »

Yep. Because Kimi is always letting teammates easily pass him. It's just the way he is.
Seriously- this would probably only matter to F1 is McLaren did it to help Hamilton.

Kimi is out of the championship. He had nothing to loose by helping Massa and helping his team get the driver's championship and constructors cup. Now, that means A LOT.

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BRealistic

· #12 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: (PocketAce)

Quote, originally posted by PocketAce »

Kimi is out of the championship. He had nothing to loose by helping Massa and helping his team get the driver's championship and constructors cup. Now, that means A LOT.

Yeah, I know. These drivers are intelligent enough to know they need to help out their teammate when they can (and it doesn't affect their chances for winning the championship).
But then that raises the question- what exact are these "team orders" the FIA has banned?

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TazioNuvolari

· #13 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: (PocketAce)

McLaren basically did the same thing earlier this season at Spa, and Ferrari basically did the same thing at Brazil last season to put Kimi into first.

PocketAce

· #14 · Oct 19, 2008

2

Re: (BRealistic)

Quote, originally posted by BRealistic »

But then that raises the question- what exact are these "team orders" the FIA has banned?

I have absolutely NO IDEA.

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BRealistic

· #15 · Oct 19, 2008

Re: (PocketAce)

I noticed the 1st place trophy lost its bottom on the podium. Hamilton looked perplexed.
I wonder if the trophy was made n China?

dunskiii

· #16 · Oct 20, 2008

Re: (BRealistic)

Quote, originally posted by BRealistic »

Yeah, I know. These drivers are intelligent enough to know they need to help out their teammate when they can (and it doesn't affect their chances for winning the championship).
But then that raises the question- what exact are these "team orders" the FIA has banned?

pretty much this..
the call
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlPrj9a88ME
the actual race
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated

Modified by dunskiii at 11:50 PM 10-19-2008

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CL111583

· #17 · Oct 20, 2008

Re: (BRealistic)

Quote, originally posted by BRealistic »

Yeah, I know. These drivers are intelligent enough to know they need to help out their teammate when they can (and it doesn't affect their chances for winning the championship).
But then that raises the question- what exact are these "team orders" the FIA has banned?

Article 39.1 of the 2007 Formula One Sporting Regulations: “Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.”

what ferrari did was clearly illegal. now i dont agree that the team orders rule is fair, but we have to remember that it was because of ferrari that we even have that rule.
Massa didnt outdrive kimi in the least - kimi has a great pace all day and he just let massa come by, which interfered with the race results.

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wuman82

· #18 · Oct 20, 2008

Re: (ClockworkChad)

Quote, originally posted by ClockworkChad »

Article 39.1 of the 2007 Formula One Sporting Regulations: “Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.”

what ferrari did was clearly illegal. now i dont agree that the team orders rule is fair, but we have to remember that it was because of ferrari that we even have that rule.
Massa didnt outdrive kimi in the least - kimi has a great pace all day and he just let massa come by, which interfered with the race results.

ah, but you forgot to prove the first part of the regulation. "Team Orders." How are you going to prove that it was the Ferrari Team that ordered kimi to let Massa pass? Kimi can do whatever he wants that can alter or interfere with a race result and its perfectly legal.

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Lankyleo

· #19 · Oct 20, 2008

Re: (ClockworkChad)

Quote, originally posted by ClockworkChad »

what ferrari did was clearly illegal.

theres a fine line here
what KIMI did was clearly legal

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GTI 4 ME

· #20 · Oct 20, 2008

Re: (ClockworkChad)

Quote, originally posted by ClockworkChad »

Article 39.1 of the 2007 Formula One Sporting Regulations: “Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited.”

what ferrari did was clearly illegal. now i dont agree that the team orders rule is fair, but we have to remember that it was because of ferrari that we even have that rule.

During the race the ITV guys said that they have banned team orders, the team is not allowed to tell a drivers to let another driver through (like the example from youtube above). If Kimi wants to let Filipe pass him, it is not a team order. Regardless Ferrari could just say Kimi had car issues and had to slow down and "baby" the motor to finish the race. Realistically there is no way to really enforce team orders.

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