[vwgroundpilot]

Ignition/timing question

So I've ordered my carb kit and awaiting anxiously for it to arrive so I can tear into my car. In the meantime, I'm trying to plan out my ignition system. There is a lot of unclear information surrounding the timing.

First question: what part of a 1986 GTI CIS-E ignition is providing the timing advance? My understanding is that it's electronic, since the dizzy has a simple hall sender. I don't think there's a mechanical advance under there, but I'm not 100% sure.

What i'm wondering is if I buy the MSD Digital 6AL and 8910 tach adapter, then wire as follows, will the Ignition Control Module provide the spark advance curve, or is this a "locked out" setup?

MSD also sells the 6AL-2 Digital Programmable (6530) with the PC-programmable advance curve for locked-out dizzys. It's $100 more, so I'd prefer to avoid that expense if possible.

Thanks!

 

[cubanvr6jetta]

im about to start my carb set up and still cant find straight answer for Fuel pump install im going the carter route and my question is..

-- do i remove the oem pump ?? if i do so how is the carter pump gonna get fuel if is all the way in the front...


Please help me with this

 

[Big CADDY]

Where is your existing pump?

You should have room back by the tank for a pump. I would put it as far away as possible because they are noisey.

maybe even some rubber mounts.

 

[Big CADDY]

The CIS uses a static timing advance setting at the distributor. The Knock sensor made the adjustments but that was only to retard the timing when it senses a knock.

Your diagram has no timing advance or retard.

 

[cubanvr6jetta]

Where is your existing pump?

You should have room back by the tank for a pump. I would put it as far away as possible because they are noisey.

maybe even some rubber mounts.

still have the in tank pump on it i just dont know if the carter will be able to pull the fuel out of the tank being out side of it and no in tank pump to push fuel out

 

[Big CADDY]

It would be fine. Maybe try to used the in tank pump instead of the carter.

 

[cubanvr6jetta]

HELP!!!!

i got aba with rowland manifold and dual solex on it try to put it on but the alternator is on the way what can i do is this normal?

 

[Riknish Niorkin]

Yes that is normal, I made a custom bracket so I could mount the alt. on the waterpump. Then an extended arm thingy... try post pics later

 

[notajetta]

still have the in tank pump on it i just dont know if the carter will be able to pull the fuel out of the tank being out side of it and no in tank pump to push fuel out

I have my carter pump mounted on the passenger side firewall and it pulls it up just fine... In tank pump is just unplugged.

 

[cubanvr6jetta]

I have my carter pump mounted on the passenger side firewall and it pulls it up just fine... In tank pump is just unplugged.

thanks finally someone answer thanks dude

 

[InfamousAdam]

Okay this will be a long post. I recently got a 84 gti with a 16v 2l swap. Now this engine ran carbs from 2 owners ago the previous owner was going to run carbs again and did not have the time for it. A friend picked it up for parts and in bought it from him. Now I picked up a set of weber dcoe 40 with the manifold adapter there is Holley fuel reg along with a Holley fuel pump which I was deciding on changing over to a carter. Now I don't know what carbs he ran but he had both outlet valves hooked up on the reg and nothing to the return along with a hookup for a icm. There is nothing for the spark advance that i can see but he has a Bosch coil that is wired up to the icm and then over to the distributor. The water neck doesn't look like its in the way but I will replace that. Also for the brake booster what do I do about the hook up since there will be no vacuum. I have attached pics the best I have please help and if you have questions I will answer the best I can

 

[Big CADDY]

The way he has it set up will work fine. There is no need for a return to the tank with such low pressure. The ICM will work fine like he has it as well. You just aren't getting the full advantage of a curve.. I actually carried that ICM setup in my glove box as a backup for my MSD. THe water neck looks pretty good. I'd pull it off and check it over for cracks and use it. The brake booster hookup can be pulled from one of the runners like #4. Drill and tap it and use a barbed insert to connect the hose.

here is a pic I found. Notice the AN connector. IF you are looking for bling grab a chrome toilet filler line.

 

[InfamousAdam]

The way he has it set up will work fine. There is no need for a return to the tank with such low pressure. The ICM will work fine like he has it as well. You just aren't getting the full advantage of a curve.. I actually carried that ICM setup in my glove box as a backup for my MSD. THe water neck looks pretty good. I'd pull it off and check it over for cracks and use it. The brake booster hookup can be pulled from one of the runners like #4. Drill and tap it and use a barbed insert to connect the hose.

here is a pic I found. Notice the AN connector. IF you are looking for bling grab a chrome toilet filler line.

Thank you. As for the regulator should I put a plug on the one side of the reg since I only need to pull fuel from the one side? Also the distributor should I get one with a vacuum advance?

 

[Big CADDY]

Plug the extra line or stick a pressue gauge on it.

Don't do a vacuum distributor since there isn't a proper vacuum

Get the car running properly with a static advance of like 8-12*. Then move on to that part.

 

[GLiwant a vr6]

alright i have question about wiring.


i have a 8v rabbit with a single weber dcoe set up with a msd 6al, msd coil and msd timing control.

can i get rid of the hall effect distributor and icm by getting a points distributor with a Pertronix Ignition conversion to simplify the wiring even further

 

[Big CADDY]

Pertronix has two wires. HAL has three. I wouldn't waste time on that.

 

[GLiwant a vr6]

Pertronix has two wires. HAL has three. I wouldn't waste time on that.

this is true

i meant more would it get rid of the icm.

 

[vrally]

Quote, originally posted by mofoco »

what about blockin off the frigin injectors how to?

cheap and dirty - use dimes and some high temp silicone in each injector port.
or, go buy 4 trans drain plugs from the dealer and screw them in.

Transmission drain plugs don't fit, but that was my initial assumption as wall. It's a 1/2" NPT (national pipe thread) I threaded a reducer bushing (for clearance issues) to reduce it to 3/8" I used a little JB weld on the threads because they were questionable. From there thread a barbed fitting into that bushing giving me a vaccume port pre throttle plate to sync the carbs and more than abundant vaccume for the brake booster.
I modded a lower intake manifold on my 9a 16v 2.0 and got r1 carbs to just clear the hood, but just.
Any advice on throttle cable?
I'm thinking of stealing the lines off my old BMX (never used them any way)

 

[vrally]

Here's where I'm at.
My 89' GTI I swaped a 2.0 16v 9a into it.
I ran it on the 1.8 PL's CIS-e system with some sucess but the fuel distributor was always an issue as was the injectors, I had a o2 guage hooked up and it would jump arround more than a rabbit at a dog show.
I bought Mikuni 40's off a yamaha r1. Cut the lower intake manifold down to about an inch from where the molding injector cups was about an inch away from the end of the runner. Now the carbs were alligned narrower than the runners but with good 3" 5 ply sylicon 2" to 1 3/4" reducers and a little trimming I got a manifold that I have relative faith in. And was able to shut the hood with the cone air filter just tuching the hood when closed.
The old injector cups removed a 1/2" to 3/8" NPT steel hardware store variety reducer bushing was threaded into. a 3/8 thread to 1/2" barbed fitting threaded into that. From there 1/2" fuel hose and 1/2" L and T fittings were configured and compiled in series and leading to the vaccume port for the brake booster, while also alowing for access to each individual port for dynamic vaccume syncronization of the throttle plates.
Fueling is: in-tank transfer pump to 3/8 (AN-6) fuel line to clear glass fuel filter to holly 140 GPH low pressure pump to a T fitting , 1 to low pressure regulator set at 3.5 psi leading to large canister style fuel filter (to act as a fuel pulse damper) them to the carbs themselves, other line to cheep high pressure regulator set at arround 10 psi leading to return line to the fuel tank.
Fuel vent line from the charcol is run to a vaccum port placed in the top of the cone air filter along with the catch can vent for the crankcase and the various vents for the carbs.
Ignition is to be the stock knock sensor & electronics of the cis-e system. Am I hereing this right that there is no advance on this system? I'll be consitering a vaccume advance dizzy of so.
What car can I steal one from. Volvo turbo?
Need more info on an initial tune as carbs to manifold installing is an off the car endevor with my manifold to carb alignment. I want to get pretty close to start. No cat stock 1.8 2 1/8" exhaust mufflers, Stock 9a engine, R1 carbs on a short runner. Looking for midrange / low end over peak hp for now.
Also throttle cable help. A part # would rock. I'm about to take brake cables off BMX and try it.
Am I missing anything??
I want to pull the choke from the dash. Farm and Home tractor choke cable was my first thought.
Thoughts?

 

[crazy16v]

ms1 v3

Set up for Aba 16v
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5870872-Ms1-v3&p=79521196#post79521196