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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, folks... here's the lowdown on this. In the MkIV forum, the VR6 vs. 1.8T debate is a very common one. Threads are posted almost daily asking "which should I get- VR6 or 1.8T?" That gets tiresome in a hurry for many, and they now just reference folks who ask that question to the FAQ. Well, this question is our "VR6 vs. 1.8T," so to speak.
For the next five days, this thread will stay unlocked for you all to post your thoughts. Please keep in mind that this will be locked and placed in the FAQ after that time period has expired. Thus, responses need to remain polite and mature. If you cannot remain polite and mature, please do not clog the thread with rude remarks. Such remarks/ posts will be removed!
As of Wednesday, February 22, at 3:00 central time, this thread will be locked and linked in the FAQ. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: FOR FAQ: DSG vs. Six-Speed Manual- Pros and Cons of Each (BRM10984)

After driving both, I felt that my 6MT gave me more control, because of the use of the clutch. Thought the DSG was very smooth, it had a feeling of lack of control to me.
The 6MT with the dieselgeeks SS kit is even better.
 

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Re: FOR FAQ: DSG vs. Six-Speed Manual- Pros and Cons of Each (PBRme)

DSG:
1) 8 millisecond shifts! faster and smoother than you can possibly shift. Due to the speed of the shifts this increases the accelleration.
2) when driving the DSG it felt very clean, hard to explain unless you actually drive one.
3) If you had a few too many it is easier to find a designated driver for your car.
4) Drive one and see what you prefer but only drive one if you can be open mined and ignore the stigma about driving an automatic.
6MT
Personally I think that there are too many gears. while it is nice to have the ability to shift to optimise your power band I do not think the car has enough power to warrant a 6th gear. The 6 speed is nothing spectacuylar and is just like the 6mt with the BDF engines.
 

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If I were to guy a GTI/GLI, I would definitely have a hard time choosing. I justified my argument, to myself, with these criteria:
1) DSG is excellent if you commute or spend lots of time in traffic, a manual can get frustrating very quickly
2) If you are only going to have one car, the GTI/GLI, then DSG is worth looking into
3) If you have one or more other automatic cars, I would go with a manual
4) Launch control program not available until 2007, and I think it's something worth waiting for
DSG is simply amazing and one must drive a car so equipped to understand. If traffic is an issue and the car will be your only, DSG is a must. However, a manual still provides ultimate control and connection to the car.
 

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Re: FOR FAQ: DSG vs. Six-Speed Manual- Pros and Cons of Each (ElixXxeR)

I've test driven the GTI in both DSG and manual, here are my thoughts:
DSG:
It's a fabulous gearbox, shifts are super quick, downshifts are seamless and the flappy paddles are pretty cool to use. It definitely is the best compromise for those that want the performance of a manual but do not want the trouble of having to operate a clutch. ALL companies should offer this gearbox instead of traditional automatic IMO.
Manual:
When people talk about this new generation of auto-manuals, it always frustrates me because they forget one HUGE point: A lot of people that drive manuals DON'T drive one because it's quicker! I could care less about half a second quicker to 60, the reason I always wanted to drive a manual when I had an automatic is not because the automatic performed badly, it's because I don't have enough to do when driving! Pop it into D and just go, it's too boring, that's exactly why I wanted a manual and why I love a manual. People can keep arguing about how these new clutchless manuals are technically advanced and is the way of the future. It just doesn't matter, driving a manual is about constantly working your entire body in harmony, rowing that shifter, pressing that clutch and catching the shift at the precise moment so it becomes a smooth and perfect shift. I also have to disagree with people saying not having a clutch is better in traffic jam, you HAVE to speak for yourself ONLY. When I drive an automatic in traffic for a long time, I get this very irritating sensation from my right leg and my entire body, because it's pretty much been stuck in the same position for too long and it's just too boring, I really can't describe that sensation but it's very irritating, it's as if I told you to keep clicking your mouse nonstop for an extended period of time, try it now you'll see what I mean. That's the feeling I get when I drive an auto for too long in traffic. But ever since I've switched to manual I've no longer had any discomfort in traffic, I don't get bored and my entire body is working so I don't get that irritation.
Technology will advance, but that's just not the point for driving a manual, at least for some people it isn't. For people that truly love manual transmissions, there is just no substitute.
My 2 pennies.
 

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DSG - PRO
The best automatic transmission there is with all the traditional benefits yet performs as well as a manual when desired.
Looks like it may be more sturdy and less likely to break than a traditional automatic. Does not look to be fluid sensitive.
Different, has paddle shifting, etc.
6MT - PRO
A decent 6 speed manual that works well. Probably not the best feel but good.
Known longevity, reliability and low maintenance manual transmission from VW and in general.
Inexpensive.
Recommendation: Drive a DSG and decide if it's worth the money, to you. Resale will likely be higher on the DSG if they prove reliable. Plus your grandparents will be able to drive it.
 

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yup, I used to have a 5 speed GTI (03) and I do miss it. Its just a damm good automatic. Its still an automatic. No matter how fast it shifts, its still does'nt feel as fast as a manual car. For the feel of the drive, manual all the way....BUT, life is'nt always black and white, I wanted my wife to drive my car sometimes...
Even if it does shift real fast, your not doing anything while its working its magic...I meen, when you shift a manual car youre not waiting for it to happen, you shift. But as far as auto's go...this is the best you can get.
I can't even tell you how much better it is compared to the old tiptronics....
 

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Re: FOR FAQ: DSG vs. Six-Speed Manual- Pros and Cons of Each (BRM10984)

I'll throw this info in from another thread:
Quote, originally posted by VWYankee »
There was a thread a few months back (maybe October) that referenced an article where a 6MT was put up against an equally equipped DSG GTI in South Africa on a drag strip. Both had professional drivers, and the manual beat out the DSG every time. The only thing I thought was strange, was there was no mention of whether or not the DSG had launch control and/or if they were using it. It was simply saying that the DSG shifts much quicker, but they weren't able to get it to launch as well as the manual.
I'll see if I can dig up the article.
*edit*
The article mentions ¼ mile times, not 0-60... It also appears it had launch control as they mentioned the DSG not holding revs more than 2 seconds (so it held revs, which can't be done without launch control IIRC).
Here's the link to the thread, and there's a link to the actual article within it.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2144494

Quote, originally posted by VWYankee »
DSG is all based on opinion of where, how, and when the enjoyment comes. If your daily drive doesn't involve any areas that you can really utilize the paddles with DSG (GLI/GTI, of course), then it's going to seem hardly different than an automatic, other than how quick the shifts are.
If you're in an area that you can benefit from using the paddles, whether it's a lot of roads with many curves (most mountain areas), or a weekend at an auto-x, it's really in those situations where the DSG will be more preferable for the "enjoyment factor", IMO.
For us, the area of Raleigh doesn't have much for "carving corners driving", but the commute can be very crappy, to where an auto type driving experience would be preferable. However, when we go to visit family in the mountains, and go for drives to places like Deals Gap (pic below), the DSG is a lot more fun than a manual, IMO. Some of you know we had a gathering out there in the fall, and took both GLI's (the MKIV is a manual). Even with the MKV having the stock 17's and All Season tires at the time, and the MKIV having 18's with sticky rubber, it was more fun using the paddles when constantly shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear. I'm certain, it would be the same experience (for me) on an auto-x course. Yeah, the manual is fun, but when you're going through something like the Dragon, a quick click of a paddle is far less tiresome, and far quicker shifts.
So, it's great for us, as we really don't do much spirited driving outside of going to the mountains. With that said, I'm getting a 6MT GTI, only because we already have a DSG, and I enjoy the around town shifting of a manual (and don't have a bad commute like my better half does).

 

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Re: (inomis)

DSG Cons
#1 DSG is still an auto
#2 DSG is electronically controlled and mechanically more complitated raising the chance for failure
#3 DSG durability is an unknown
#4 DSG will be much more expensive to fix/replace after warranty is up
#5 DSG power holding capabilities is an unkown
#6 DSG seperates the driver from the car making the driving experience more numb and uninvolved.
#7 DSG shifting response near redline seems very slow compared to rest of rev range.
6 speed Cons
#1 No easy driving in traffic
#2 No lighting fast shifts
#3 No cool automatic rev matching
#4 No 1 handed driving
 

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The one thing I've noticed about the 6MT is that the clutch and gas pedal action takes a little getting used to. The combination of the clutch pedal engaging very close to the floor, and the gas pedal being floor-hinged is a different sensation than I was used to. 9 of my 11 cars have been stick, and I've always been able to hop into any MT-equipped car and get the hang of it instantly. The GLI took a little longer than usual for me to get the hang of taking off smoothly. But it's all good.
 

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I probably would have gone with the DSG were it not the fact that automatics have a little vibration in the dash when you are at a stoplight with the car in gear and foot on the break. Since VW's are prone to vibrations and rattles already, and I experienced this first hand with 2 automatic Jettas, I test drove a MT and loved how quiet the cabin was when I was at a stop light.
Picky, I know, but that is the biggest and only reason I went with MT over DSG.
 

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Re: (FUZE)

A dsg is not an automatic like on your parents Oldsmobile... It's just like having a clutch it can shift faster then you ever can with a 6-spd. How many times have you missed a shift in a 6-spd? I have no-body's perfect. Buy a dsg give your clutch foot a rest. Dsg is the reason that I purchased the car plus the turbo and uh the servotronic steering
Its ok to have a dsg.


Modified by BRM10984 at 4:13 PM 2-17-2006
 

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Re: (.:R:.)

This thread is not about hating...it is about people posting their experiences so others can go on to purchase something that will fit them the best.
Personally, like I said above...the DSG is boring for me, faster shift or not.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to a world that lets you buy what you prefer.
 

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Personally I like the manual... I like to row my own boat.
I might agree with PBRme on this though, I drove both the DSG and Manual, and although I love how smooth the DSG is, the manual is prolly the smoothest manual I've ever driven. Shifts are clean and crisp. But the remark about the DSG being boring for me only stems from the fact that I couldn't feel the shifts in the DSG box... in the manual, if I wanted to, I could drop the clutch for just a bit longer before I let it rip into the next gear.
Either way... before you buy, you can try both and see for yourself. If you need more time, just ask the salesperson for a longer route and I'm sure they'll accomodate you.
IMO, I think most of you might end up buying the manual... there's something nostalgic and classic about a manual ride.
Cheers,
KH
 

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Re: (Kid Hobo)

Quote, originally posted by Kid Hobo »
Personally I like the manual... I like to row my own boat.
I might agree with PBRme on this though, I drove both the DSG and Manual, and although I love how smooth the DSG is, the manual is prolly the smoothest manual I've ever driven. Shifts are clean and crisp. But the remark about the DSG being boring for me only stems from the fact that I couldn't feel the shifts in the DSG box... in the manual, if I wanted to, I could drop the clutch for just a bit longer before I let it rip into the next gear.
Either way... before you buy, you can try both and see for yourself. If you need more time, just ask the salesperson for a longer route and I'm sure they'll accomodate you.
IMO, I think most of you might end up buying the manual... there's something nostalgic and classic about a manual ride.
Cheers,
KH

Agreed on the part about this manual being smooth, I forgot to mention about that in my post but VW did a good job with the new manual tranny in GTIs. Shifts were crisp and clear, throws weren't the shortest but they felt very comfortable, I'm not even sure I'd want to put in a short throw kit, just because it might mess up the smooth and crisp shifts. Clutch had a long travel but was very easy to operate, light on effort and easy to get the hang of. I immediately drove another Acura RSX-S after the test drove of the GTI, the throws in the RSX were shorter but that's about it, everything else is just as good and even a little better in the shifter feel than the RSX, and everyone knows Honda makes some of the best manual trannies. Good job VW!
 

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Re: (Xens)

I commute to nyc 100 miles a day round trip.
I am in stop and go traffic 3 out of 5 days a week.
And i still went with the 6speed manual.Something about driving a "real"manual that i just like better.
Yes i did test drive the dsg. very smooth, bit faster,downshifts were a bit laggy,had a sweet sound on the upshifts.Just wasnt my cup of tea.
-ry
 

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Re: (Xens)

I didnt get a long drive in the MT before I decided I didnt want to have one. I enjoyed it and really thought it was well done.
But my morning commute puts me in a lot of stop and go traffic, for which I do not want to be shifting 2 - 3 times every few seconds. The DSG is very fun and very responsive in M mode with shifting etc. I got the fun factor that I wanted the MT for but got the ease and comfort of the automatic mode. If I have to talk on the phone or anything else I dont want to be fumbling around. I chose the DSG, if it had been a regular Triptonic I probably would have gone with the MT.
Both are really great transmisions, I say drive them both a lot of times if you are unsure, you know what your driving style is like, and the kind of commutes you have, pick the one that allows the most fun and ease http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: FOR FAQ: DSG vs. Six-Speed Manual- Pros and Cons of Each (Xens)

Quote, originally posted by Xens »
When I drive an automatic in traffic for a long time, I get this very irritating sensation from my right leg and my entire body, because it's pretty much been stuck in the same position for too long and it's just too boring, I really can't describe that sensation but it's very irritating, it's as if I told you to keep clicking your mouse nonstop for an extended period of time, try it now you'll see what I mean.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
that's a good way of putting into words something i didn't consciously realize but felt all the time!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
also, I can't stand the sensation of engine power rotating something other than the wheels (clutch slippage) when at a stop...plus i like to blip the throttle for no apparent reason during times of day hehehe...and let off the brake gently all the way as i come to a complete stop. none of this for performance reasons, but still


Modified by poopoo_head at 2:53 PM 2-17-2006
 

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Re: FOR FAQ: DSG vs. Six-Speed Manual- Pros and Cons of Each (BRM10984)

After 17 years of driving manuals almost exclusively, having to shift while sitting in traffic has begun to wear on my nerves. I love having a stick when I've got an open road to myself for some serious acceleration though. I purchased manuals in my last two cars simply because of the sloshy feel of your typical torque converter automatic, and the loss of power as a result.
So for me the DSG is a dream come true. I get a break when I'm stuck in traffic without losing performance when I can feed it some gas and I won't always have in the back of my mind that I'm losing out on some performance. Sure I won't actually get to row the gears anymore when I've got the open road to myself, but that's a small price to pay for not having to shift back and forth between 1st and 2nd for an hour on a long commute across town in stop-and-go traffic.
That's my take anyway, although I can understand those who still want to row the gearbox--especially the younger ones who haven't had enough time to get sick of it.

It also played a big factor for me in choosing the GTI over it's competitors since nobody else is offering this technology at such an affordable price point. It's great confirmation reading all the reviews assuring me that I've made a great choice.



Modified by jmhart at 1:58 PM 2-17-2006
 
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