Ford CEO Jim Farley on massive EV batteries: “I have no idea what’s going on in this industry right now"

Car companies are just responding to forum edgelords that claims they need 400 miles range for daily driving.

EV range is the new HP. An excess people are willing to pay for but will rarely use.

bzcat said:

Car companies are just responding to forum edgelords that claims they need 400 miles range for daily driving.

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Hajduk said:

EV range is the new HP. An excess people are willing to pay for but will rarely use.

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Pretty much. Our EVs have a maximum range of 263 miles and 330 miles. We charge on Sunday, drive all week, then charge again the following Sunday. Rinse and repeat.

bzcat said:

Car companies are just responding to forum edgelords that claims they need 400 miles range for daily driving.

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Basically. They will offer these extended range battery packs to ward off the trolls knowing full well the take rate will be low because they will be priced into the stratosphere.

The people who complain about EV range are going to complain about EV range no matter what that range actually is (and then complain about how long it takes to charge on a 120v outlet to boot).

Build sensible vehicles with sensible range (~ 400 km / 250 mi seems to be a sweet spot that is "good enough for most people") and then put charging stations everywhere. The complainers are only going to be dragged kicking and screaming into an EV anyhow. Range anxiety largely goes away if charging stations are commonplace.

Also, it’s only very recently that you see cars that have that sort of range ICE or Electric. Before most compact cars came with 10-12 gallon tanks …that’s not going much more than 300 miles even with driving all highway miles. Unless you get a truck with a 26 gallon tank or a hybrid , 400 mile range is pretty uncommon.

GoFaster said:

The people who complain about EV range are going to complain about EV range no matter what that range actually is (and then complain about how long it takes to charge on a 120v outlet to boot).

Build sensible vehicles with sensible range (~ 400 km / 250 mi seems to be a sweet spot that is "good enough for most people") and then put charging stations everywhere. The complainers are only going to be dragged kicking and screaming into an EV anyhow. Range anxiety largely goes away if charging stations are commonplace.

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"But every 3-5 years I need to drive from northern bum**** maine to some obscure corner of Idaho, towing three boats and a horse trailer. EV's just aren't realistic."

My FIL is interested in the Electric Hummer. We discussed charge rate and cost considerations. I inquired about the battery pack size and he Googled it. He said it has a 210 kWh battery pack.

That’s a big one…

stealthboost said:

My FIL is interested in the Electric Hummer. We discussed charge rate and cost considerations. I inquired about the battery pack size and he Googled it. He said it has a 210 kWh battery pack.

That’s a big one…

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You want to push an enormous barn door through the air for a stupidly long distance, that's what's going to happen. The long-range BT1XX variants are most likely all going to use that same battery, but at least they should be capable of longer range than the Hummer.

GoFaster said:

The people who complain about EV range are going to complain about EV range no matter what that range actually is (and then complain about how long it takes to charge on a 120v outlet to boot).

Build sensible vehicles with sensible range (~ 400 km / 250 mi seems to be a sweet spot that is "good enough for most people") and then put charging stations everywhere. The complainers are only going to be dragged kicking and screaming into an EV anyhow. Range anxiety largely goes away if charging stations are commonplace.

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That's pretty much what most manufacturers are doing. But with current poor charging infrastructure, 250mi is still a problem for folks who do a lot of long distance driving. That will change over time, but we probably have a decade or so before people don't really have to worry about finding a good fast charger. You also still need big batteries (frankly, bigger than currently offered) if you want to tow more than short distances.

I don't think 400+ mile EVs are likely to be the default any time soon (if ever). For now, that big a battery is too expensive (which is why you only see them in luxury vehicles like the Lucid and MQS). Once that big of a battery is no longer too expensive, it won't be necessary.

Yeah I was as guilty as anyone else about range anxiety. But with my pop's Ioniq 5, for battery health he's got full charge limited to 80% - that gives you about 200 miles of indicated range, and it has yet to be a problem for a car that commutes locally in any way.

Even with current tech, It's a "come on in the water is fine" kind of situation for the vast majority of people.

Ark6 said:

Also, it’s only very recently that you see cars that have that sort of range ICE or Electric. Before most compact cars came with 10-12 gallon tanks …that’s not going much more than 300 miles even with driving all highway miles. Unless you get a truck with a 26 gallon tank or a hybrid , 400 mile range is pretty uncommon.

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Correct.

Except that you can stop and fill those cars up with gas in 5 minutes, anywhere in the country - Giving you the freedom to go wherever you'd like.

EV's are in a pretty good spot right now with range, I do believe 250-400 miles is more than enough. In fact, I'd go a step further and say the reality of it is, for most peoples commute, 100-200 miles of range is more than enough.

The big differentiator is that most people have enough money for one car, and it needs to do everything from commuting to traveling. There's not enough confidence in the charging network at the moment to make an EV the ONLY car in most households.

Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Correct.

Except that you can stop and fill those cars up with gas in 5 minutes, anywhere in the country - Giving you the freedom to go wherever you'd like.

EV's are in a pretty good spot right now with range, I do believe 250-400 miles is more than enough. In fact, I'd go a step further and say the reality of it is, for most peoples commute, 100-200 miles of range is more than enough.

The big differentiator is that most people have enough money for one car, and it needs to do everything from commuting to traveling. There's not enough confidence in the charging network at the moment to make an EV the ONLY car in most households.

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And EVs are still too slow to charge. Get it down to the 15-20 minute range (widely available), and range will go away as a concern.

Nealric said:

And EVs are still too slow to charge. Get it down to the 15-20 minute range (widely available), and range will go away as a concern.

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Most of the new EVs are already here. I think that new Kias and Hyundais can normally hit an 80 percent charge in about 20 mins. I know when I'm on long trips in the Teslas (which don't even charge as fast as the new EVs), I'm usually not at a charger for more than 20 minutes to get to my next destination.

Mazda 3s said:

Most of the new EVs are already here. I think that new Kias and Hyundais can normally hit an 80 percent charge in about 20 mins. I know when I'm on long trips in the Teslas (which don't even charge as fast as the new EVs), I'm usually not at a charger for more than 20 minutes to get to my next destination.

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The Kias are some of the best out there. But many companies are still selling EVs that need close to an hour to do a 10-80% charge. Plus, the availability of DC fast chargers for non-Teslas can be spotty. Moreover, a lot of the DC fast chargers are only 50 or 150kw. The Kia EV6 needs 233kw to get that 17 minute 10-80% charge they advertise. In practice, that's rarely available.

Mazda 3s said:

Most of the new EVs are already here. I think that new Kias and Hyundais can normally hit an 80 percent charge in about 20 mins. I know when I'm on long trips in the Teslas (which don't even charge as fast as the new EVs), I'm usually not at a charger for more than 20 minutes to get to my next destination.

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Audi/VW is still stuck at 45 plus minutes. It takes roughly an hour at Electrify America DC charging station to get 80% charge on my e-Tron.

I have a Bolt. I measure my fast charging time in hours, not minutes.

I feel like a broken record. EV adoption is being throttled because some people are too stupid to realize every car in their house doesn't need to be able to drive 500+ miles on a moment's notice. The vast majority of new car buyers can charge their ~40-60 daily miles at home and have a second vehicle they can use for the occasional long distance drive. Let's get some cheap "medium range" EVs on the road to cover all the short distance driving most people do every day.

Oh and Ford isn't helping by prioritizing pickup trucks over regular cars. Even an Escape EV would do more. I give GM credit for actually prioritizing affordable EVs.

Profit rules the roost with the ev roll outs. So the public gets stuck with high dollar choices. They vote no