Most people aren't buying new cars though. That market is basically made up of upper income homeowners with multiple vehicles in their households.... aka the exact kind of people who can afford and fit an EV in their fleet. The people who can only have one car for everything are probably buying used anyway.
Ford CEO Jim Farley on massive EV batteries: “I have no idea what’s going on in this industry right now"
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An auto CEO came very close to saying the right thing about heavy EV batteries
Ford CEO Jim Farley got really close to saying the right thing.
“I have no idea what’s going on in this industry right now,” Ford CEO Jim Farley said during his company’s capital markets event Monday. He referenced electric vehicles coming out with 450–500 miles of range, including “a three-row crossover” announced today that was likely the new electric Cadillac Escalade.
Higher ranges will necessitate bigger batteries, he noted, adding, “These batteries are huge.”
“If you have those kinds of batteries, you will not make money,” Farley said during today’s event. “So we’ve got to start talking about the size of batteries for the range, the efficiency.”
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Car companies be like "ev all the way. Here are some super expensive electrics by the way for you to choose from"
Joe Q Public. " oh, 'eff you with that set of choices"
Joe Q Public. " oh, 'eff you with that set of choices"
It's called 'selling cars'. You actually have to give the public a reason to buy a vehicle.I feel like a broken record. EV adoption is being throttled because some people are too stupid =
Car companies gotta do better than 'climate change' and 'we going whole hog on ev's'
I'd rather have a phev with ~60 miles of range. That would be more than enough for daily use and can always use the engine if you need more.
Remember that guy? He bought a grey 991 and was all mad it didn't "snap necks." Then he wanted to trade it for a GT4 and was mad he had to pay over MSRP to get one.
That was the brilliance of Tesla’s plan. Before Tesla, EVs were sold pretty much exclusively as “green”. It was right in the name with Nissan Leaf. Tesla was like, “hey, do you want a family sedan that can do 0-60 in 3 seconds?”It's called 'selling cars'. You actually have to give the public a reason to buy a vehicle.
Car companies gotta do better than 'climate change' and 'we going whole hog on ev's'
Of course not everyone cares about silly performance, but they gave people reason to buy an EV that had nothing to do with being green. Same with a lot of the silly tech gimmicks.
The GMs of the world have a harder time because they need to appeal to the mass market and are never going to be perceived as “cool.”
But one thing EVs can do well is comfort and low NVH. I’m surprised more mass market EV makers don’t sell that point harder.
In the beginning, Tesla's image was and to a degree, still is today about Elon Musk, the environmentalist tech bro genius. Well, he has shat on that image a bit as of lateThat was the brilliance of Tesla’s plan. Before Tesla, EVs were sold pretty much exclusively as “green”. It was right in the name with Nissan Leaf. Tesla was like, “hey, do you want a family sedan that can do 0-60 in 3 seconds?”
Of course not everyone cares about silly performance, but they gave people reason to buy an EV that had nothing to do with being green. Same with a lot of the silly tech gimmicks.
The GMs of the world have a harder time because they need to appeal to the mass market and are never going to be perceived as “cool.”
But one thing EVs can do well is comfort and low NVH. I’m surprised more mass market EV makers don’t sell that point harder.
My wife and I had a '04 Subaru that had a real-world range of 220-240 miles, and drove it for 8 years before it was damaged in an accident. I also remember a friend with an early '80s Mustang 6 cylinder that had a range of no more than 200 miles. I can't imagine how bad it would have been with a V8.Also, it’s only very recently that you see cars that have that sort of range ICE or Electric.
This source says the Mustang had a 12.5 gallon tank. It probably got 19 mpg on a very good day.
EV sales have dipped after the first quarter and Ford is losing $65,000 on every EV they sell. Lithium supply costs will be going up as supplies tighten. And new surveys are showing that the next wave of buyers after early adoption are resistant based on some intractable issues where there aren’t any viable solutions on the horizon.
That’s what’s going on behind the scenes.
If I fueled my Alfa Romeo Giulia for 60 total minutes, I can travel over 23,000 miles at over 80 mph average - in dead cold winter.
That’s what’s going on behind the scenes.
If I fueled my Alfa Romeo Giulia for 60 total minutes, I can travel over 23,000 miles at over 80 mph average - in dead cold winter.
My driving is very concentrated in trips of 100-250 miles one way, most without charging at the far end. I'm willing to buy an EV with a 275 mile range once such a vehicle is affordable despite that unfavorable driving pattern.I feel like a broken record. EV adoption is being throttled because some people are too stupid to realize every car in their house doesn't need to be able to drive 500+ miles on a moment's notice.
Lithium has actually cratered recently;EV sales have dipped after the first quarter and Ford is losing $65,000 on every EV they sell. Lithium supply costs will be going up as supplies tighten. And new surveys are showing that the next wave of buyers after early adoption are resistant based on some intractable issues where there aren’t any viable solutions on the horizon.
That’s what’s going on behind the scenes.
If I fueled my Alfa Romeo Giulia for 60 total minutes, I can travel over 23,000 miles at over 80 mph average - in dead cold winter.
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Lithium prices bounce after big plunge, but surpluses loom
Lithium prices rebounded this week for the first time in five months after tumbling from record highs, but new supply of the key mineral for electric vehicle (EV) batteries coming on stream is likely to weigh on the market next year.
www.reuters.com
Infrastructure is more of a problem to me than overall range. Even with my round trip to work being 146 miles, unfortunately there is no charger at my house (I rent) and my job. Even though my job is in downtown Denver, even the nearest Supercharger (the one that a dude got shot at) is over 20-25 minutes away.
When a car company starts considering that their customers are 'stoopid', you got a major problem with your 'business approach'.
If all we get is 'you vill buy these ev's and you vill like it (the brocolli approach to car sales), things are going to settle in for a rough go.
If all we get is 'you vill buy these ev's and you vill like it (the brocolli approach to car sales), things are going to settle in for a rough go.
I agree auto makers shouldn’t call their customers stupid, but neither should they always listen to what customers say they want. If the customer designs the product, you get this:When a car company starts considering that their customers are 'stoopid', you got a major problem with your 'business approach'.
If all we get is 'you vill buy these ev's and you vill like it (the brocolli approach to car sales), things are going to settle in for a rough go.
Respectfully this is kind of what I am talking about. Millions of people have found plenty of reasons to buy EVs besides wokeism and Tesla adjacency so you thinking that's all there is is on you.It's called 'selling cars'. You actually have to give the public a reason to buy a vehicle.
Car companies gotta do better than 'climate change' and 'we going whole hog on ev's'
Neither of the wagons at my house are hybrids, nor have 26 gallon tanks and both are capable of 400+ miles on a highway cruise. Hell, I was a sneeze from a 600 mile tank in our Outback once before the knobbly wheels/tires went on.Also, it’s only very recently that you see cars that have that sort of range ICE or Electric. Before most compact cars came with 10-12 gallon tanks …that’s not going much more than 300 miles even with driving all highway miles. Unless you get a truck with a 26 gallon tank or a hybrid , 400 mile range is pretty uncommon.
The only perceived "beef" I have with what today's EV structure seems to be is that a lot of the latest and greatest coming out seems to prioritize God almighty power for largely no reason. There is almost exactly zero reason for the Ford Lightning, the Hummer truck or the Kia GT EV to be able to click off sub 4 seconds to 60. If the batteries are capable of carrying the sort of charge capable of that outright power, why is the power not limited to a degree and metered out the charge capacity over a longer distance vs for more power?
For now, the reality of my personal situation is that my wife would be a great use case scenario for an EV, as a WFH person who doesn't need to go out every day and doesn't go very far when she does. But with my daily commute of 60+ miles just to/from work, any running around I need to do while I'm at work, and regular travel to satellite sites, I can't afford to sit around waiting an hour on a car with 200 miles of range to charge. A recent trip to northern Wisconsin was done on one tank in my BMW, but I encountered insane winds on the trek back home to STL, averaging a paltry 16 MPG into the wind with my car hat on. That sort of drag would've murdered the range on an EV, and left me in the middle of a cornfield somewhere between Chicago and St. Louis with nowhere to charge it.
The Midwest will unfortunately be the last hold out on conversion to EV, just based on both government subsidies for corn/ethanol, and the near complete lack of charging stations that aren't Tesla stations, even in a major metro area like St. Louis.
Power in and of itself doesn’t really hurt EV range. In fact, the large batteries needed for big power support long range. The longest range EV is a 1,000hp Lucid Air. A smaller motor wouldn’t change that.Neither of the wagons at my house are hybrids, nor have 26 gallon tanks and both are capable of 400+ miles on a highway cruise. Hell, I was a sneeze from a 600 mile tank in our Outback once before the knobbly wheels/tires went on.
The only perceived "beef" I have with what today's EV structure seems to be is that a lot of the latest and greatest coming out seems to prioritize God almighty power for largely no reason. There is almost exactly zero reason for the Ford Lightning, the Hummer truck or the Kia GT EV to be able to click off sub 4 seconds to 60. If the batteries are capable of carrying the sort of charge capable of that outright power, why is the power not limited to a degree and metered out the charge capacity over a longer distance vs for more power?
For now, the reality of my personal situation is that my wife would be a great use case scenario for an EV, as a WFH person who doesn't need to go out every day and doesn't go very far when she does. But with my daily commute of 60+ miles just to/from work, any running around I need to do while I'm at work, and regular travel to satellite sites, I can't afford to sit around waiting an hour on a car with 200 miles of range to charge. A recent trip to northern Wisconsin was done on one tank in my BMW, but I encountered insane winds on the trek back home to STL, averaging a paltry 16 MPG into the wind with my car hat on. That sort of drag would've murdered the range on an EV, and left me in the middle of a cornfield somewhere between Chicago and St. Louis with nowhere to charge it.
The Midwest will unfortunately be the last hold out on conversion to EV, just based on both government subsidies for corn/ethanol, and the near complete lack of charging stations that aren't Tesla stations, even in a major metro area like St. Louis.
Minnesota is the same. Only 4 CCS stations* in the entire state. Only 2 in the entire Minneapolis/St. Paul metro- which is around 3.5M peopleThe Midwest will unfortunately be the last hold out on conversion to EV, just based on both government subsidies for corn/ethanol, and the near complete lack of charging stations that aren't Tesla stations, even in a major metro area like St. Louis.
* By “stations” I mean something like an Electrify America station with 4-6 dispensers, minimum, all 150kw+ capable.
There’s some single ~50kw random dispensers around - not the kind of thing you can really rely on.
No. EV adoption is being throttled because the technology is primitive and dumb as f... right now. Range, home plugs, time to charge, prices, everything is in prehistoric stage.I feel like a broken record. EV adoption is being throttled because some people are too stupid to realize every car in their house doesn't need to be able to drive 500+ miles on a moment's notice. The vast majority of new car buyers can charge their ~40-60 daily miles at home and have a second vehicle they can use for the occasional long distance drive. Let's get some cheap "medium range" EVs on the road to cover all the short distance driving most people do every day.
Oh and Ford isn't helping by prioritizing pickup trucks over regular cars. Even an Escape EV would do more. I give GM credit for actually prioritizing affordable EVs.
10-20 more years and we'll see.
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