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Would have posted in a previous thread but they've turned into 20 page ^&%* measuring contests.

And I'll pre-empt a few comments:

-Too slow
-No torks
-No pass on highway, will dead
-Should have been 250hp/2200lbs/20K

Have fun!
 

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More of a drivers car than my GTI. Even if that isn't what I want in a sporty daily I respect Toyota much more for building this :thumbup:

That said I am a bit skeptical about the FT-86 > Cayman.......
 

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I was waiting for someone to actually make the direct comparison, rather than just alluding to the Cayman.

Of course it's all subjective, but this sort of thing is a bigger coup than the numbers-based GT-R vs. 911 Turbo rivalry for that very reason. Porsches have always been the subjective choice, the "soul" choice.
 

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A lot of cars beat the Cayman. I'm sure a Wrangler can handle off-roading better than a G500, but you don't see anyone cross-shopping them.
 

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It's pretty obvious that you can't trust reviews unless it says that the car sucks. Ergo, this review is not trustworthy.
 

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It's pretty obvious that you can't trust reviews unless it says that the car sucks. Ergo, this review is not trustworthy.
This.

Where is Hawk?
 

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. First I was skeptical the Toyobaru would exist, then I waited with tepid interest, and now I like the car (no experience with one, so not about to sing the song) but, come on, this **** happens every time a new car comes out. Didn't the 370Z bash the Cayman's brains in when it was new and then evvvvvvvvvvvvveryone readily admitted it's heavy, chintzy, and doesn't really perform all that well?

I'm sensing much sensationalist-ishtbull going on here.
 

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tl;dr. Did they concentrate on handling, steering, gearbox, etc. things only? Because I imagined the Cayman with more power would perform better in the straight line. Either way, compared to the Cayman, the GT86 is gaudy inside and out. That, plus, a Porsche is a Porsche and a Toyota is a Toyota, so I wouldn't give the GT another look if I was in the market. Naturally the Porsche is more expensive. Still, if my budget was limited to what the GT costs, I'd still buy something else.

Edit: WHAT, the Cayman is 115k AUD and the Toyota is 38k? Quite the difference...
 

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FV-QR

The FRS/86/BRZ debate may end TCL as we know it.

As many have argued it's not perfect, it's not a powerhouse, it doesn't even come with good tires...

However nearly the whole CL would argue there needs to be a RWD "enthusiast" car. And how dare the corporate Automotive conspiracy kill off RWD cars? How dare they kill off the manual gear box??!!!

Yet when major companies hear the cry of the "enthusiast" for more RWD, and more MT, and more tuner friendly motors... then the toilet poised, magazine at hand, numbers-racer show their ugly head.

They'll quote TQ all day, and HP for weeks. They'll compare this review to that review. They'll say that the positive reviews are more damning than the negative reviews. Despite both reviews being so heavy handed to both extremes. They'll ignore what they've wanted, just so they can damn such a weak attempt to charm the enthusiast. The enthusiast of yore that lies inside of them.

It baffles my mind to see so many TCL users try to damn this car from the get-go. To damn a car that answers so many demands of the "enthusiasts" while answering demands of the "fickle" seems so ludicrous to me.

Here is a car that is RWD mated with a MT and is seemingly tuner friendly. Not only that, it is also sub $30k brand new, AND has promising MPG numbers. Yet so many people here want it to fail for no more than some personal vendetta against another username. It seems so silly.

Here is a partnership of two great tuner-friendly companies to give the masses what they've been asking for, only to have that answer shoved back down their throat.

No wonder car manufacturers aren't making "enthusiast" friendly cars any more.

Enthusiasts have turned into a bunch of snobs. Snobs that will always have a demographic that isn't happy; that will nitpick and pull apart all efforts and decisions made on their behalf. No wonder these manufacturers make cars that are boring and that will sell to the mainstream.

Why would a company try to make anything for a group of self destructive know-it-alls who are reminiscent of the 80's-movie prom queen...someone who has everything and wants it all.
 

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The FRS/86/BRZ debate may end TCL as we know it.

As many have argued it's not perfect, it's not a powerhouse, it doesn't even come with good tires...

However nearly the whole CL would argue there needs to be a RWD "enthusiast" car. And how dare the corporate Automotive conspiracy kill off RWD cars? How dare they kill off the manual gear box??!!!

Yet when major companies hear the cry of the "enthusiast" for more RWD, and more MT, and more tuner friendly motors... then the toilet poised, magazine at hand, numbers-racer show their ugly head.

They'll quote TQ all day, and HP for weeks. They'll compare this review to that review. They'll say that the positive reviews are more damning than the negative reviews. Despite both reviews being so heavy handed to both extremes. They'll ignore what they've wanted, just so they can damn such a weak attempt to charm the enthusiast. The enthusiast of yore that lies inside of them.

It baffles my mind to see so many TCL users try to damn this car from the get-go. To damn a car that answers so many demands of the "enthusiasts" while answering demands of the "fickle" seems so ludicrous to me.

Here is a car that is RWD mated with a MT and is seemingly tuner friendly. Not only that, it is also sub $30k brand new, AND has promising MPG numbers. Yet so many people here want it to fail for no more than some personal vendetta against another username. It seems so silly.

Here is a partnership of two great tuner-friendly companies to give the masses what they've been asking for, only to have that answer shoved back down their throat.

No wonder car manufacturers aren't making "enthusiast" friendly cars any more.

Enthusiasts have turned into a bunch of snobs. Snobs that will always have a demographic that isn't happy; that will nitpick and pull apart all efforts and decisions made on their behalf. No wonder these manufacturers make cars that are boring and that will sell to the mainstream.

Why would a company try to make anything for a group of self destructive know-it-alls who are reminiscent of the 80's-movie prom queen...someone who has everything and wants it all.
selling cars is a business?

demand...supply...
 

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Great article, thanks for posting. :beer:

The Cayman and FR-S are exactly the two cars that are at the top of my list. The decision might be even harder in a couple years (when I actually expect to pull the trigger), since the FR-S will be available used by then.
 

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For what it's worth, some earlier reviews were saying the FR-S was the best drive south of a Cayman. It's also been said that an Evora is the best drive south of an F458. And of course there's the GTR/Z06 vs. 911.

Bang for the buck benchmarking happens all the time between cars. It also happens between stereo equipment, TV's, wines, and pretty much... anything at all. I don't see why this is such a big deal.
 

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More of a drivers car than my GTI. Even if that isn't what I want in a sporty daily I respect Toyota much more for building this :thumbup:

That said I am a bit skeptical about the FT-86 > Cayman.......
I agree. Sorry but this is magazine bullsh!t. This is the old "pump and dump" in action. They pump up the new hot thing on the block with otherworldly superlatives, and then dump on it later in the year.

If the BRZ, et al is slower than the V6 Mustang and Megane....it is NOT faster than a Cayman.

I'm certain this is a great handling car, in line with the Elise, Evora, Miata, RX-8 and Cayman. But lets be real. But the overall better package is still the Cayman.
 
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