Help me go low 13's All Motor

2072 Views 26 Replies 11 Participants Last post by ItsukiVR6, Feb 20, 2002

-DTM-

Discussion Starter · Feb 13, 2002

I have a 89 gti vr6. I want to go low 13's All Motor. How can I do this? How light do you think I can ge it with me in it? Are Drag slicks needed? What motor mods will be needed? I'm going to remove all the interior. I have a extra set of doors that I'm going to butch. My goal is to lose 50 pounds in the doors. I'm going to cut out everything except the skin and the mounting points. How much will I lose by going with lexan windows? I'm going to remove the rear wiper. What else can I do to the hatch to lose weight? How much can be lost from sound deadoning in the fender wells? Will a fuel cell save weight? I'm going to cut out the rain tray and firewall. I'm going to put in a light weight aluminum unit. I'm removing PS and AC. Am I missing anything to lose weight?
Here is the motor I have planned:
288 cams
mk4 head gasket
custom intake manifold similar to 2.9 euro manifold
Big throttle body
Custom Giac chip
Custom CAI
CCH head
2.5" TT exhaust
Test pipe
Tranny:
Peloquin
3.94 R&p
Aluminum Flywheel
HD PP and Clutch
....
What else. I need ideas on how to make this thing fast. Please help.

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

need_a_VR6

· #2 · Feb 13, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (-DTM-)

Unless you're planning on raising the compression substantially (or it's a typo) the Schrick 288s probably won't work. Other than that, you'll could probably touch low 13s with that setup provided you have slicks, stiff rear springs/struts and practice a ton. Much luck.

H2oVento

· #3 · Feb 13, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (-DTM-)

All of those ideas are good ones.. but keep in mind that with lexan windows the car can no longer be driven on the street. If that is your goal you could loose another 100lbs by removeing the bumpers. Also check with your local track as to the rules of haveing a fuel cell in your hatch... you may have to add some sort of fire wall incase of a crash. So if your going for a drag only car (not street driven) I would than up the compression to 12:1 and run race gas 100+ octane. With all that I would not be suprised if you broke into the 12's

-DTM-

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 13, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (H2oVento)

I've seen the 288 cams work with 10.5:1 CR. Anyway's, I'm going to drive this think on the street so I'm going to put a lot of stuff back on when I go on the street. Why can't you run Lexan on the street? I'm going to switch the doors when I'm at the track. Anyways, how light can I get this thing?

need_a_VR6

· #5 · Feb 13, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (-DTM-)

quote:[HR][/HR]I've seen the 288 cams work with 10.5:1 CR.[HR][/HR]

Who, and where, was it in a VR6? I can't think of more than 2 people running the 276's, let alone a 288!
You can probably get it around 2200lbs with some good stripping work and lexan.

-DTM-

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 14, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (need_a_VR6)

Well, the 288's where in 3.1 VR6's over here in Oregon. One guy with a 15:1 Cr 3.1 VR6 w/ a Collin head in a rabbit. And another with a built 3.1 w/ a collin head in a corrado. The guy with the drag rabbit ran a 12.1 last year and will be in the 11's this next season. His name is Berant sp? and he's really good friends with Collin from TT. Anyway, I'm going to try them out in a 2.8.

need_a_VR6

· #7 · Feb 14, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (-DTM-)

You'll need more compression than you can run on pump gas my friend, but good luck.

vwmotorsports

· #8 · Feb 14, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (need_a_VR6)

[Modified by vwmotorsports, 11:44 AM 2-25-2003]

H2oVento

· #9 · Feb 14, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (-DTM-)

quote:[HR][/HR]I've seen the 288 cams work with 10.5:1 CR. Anyway's, I'm going to drive this think on the street so I'm going to put a lot of stuff back on when I go on the street. Why can't you run Lexan on the street? I'm going to switch the doors when I'm at the track. Anyways, how light can I get this thing?[HR][/HR]

I don't know why, but in NJ you have to have glass.. might be diffrent in other parts of the contry.. so check it out first..
If its going to be a daily driver.. you can't go crazy with the compression.. other wise you'll go broke feeding it 100+ octane gas. Your at what 10:1 now.. you can goto 11:1 and use 93.. 288's are big for a daily driver.. there is a 3.1VR by me running 288/307 i belive,, Euro GTI on Drugs.. is his vortex name.. and his car runs 11's but with a 200 shot of nitrous. You could always use slim fast.. IMO I would look into a set of slicks and a LSD like quaiff..

need_a_VR6

· #10 · Feb 14, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (H2oVento)

More overlap requires a car to have more static compression to maintain the dynamic compression required for proper combustion. Basically, if you don't bump the CR you will never see the full benifits from a lairy cam, and of course idle like crap and have no low end pull. Talk to Matrix about this cam and the CR needed to support it before you plunk down $$ for it.
You could probably go into the low 13's with good driving and 268s. If I recall correctly some of the A2 VR6 guys from Ny/NJ have been doing this for quite some time.
No need to get overcammed

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Mike0105

· #11 · Feb 14, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (need_a_VR6)

Rule #1 Listen to Paul, he know's his stuff big time. Other then that you'r overcamming big time, you're head won't flow enough and your CE will be entirely to low ot run those cams. Ther eis only a few people try 276's in VR's and Paul is one of them. Also do you know how much GIAC charges for a custom chip?? They aren't cheap these days. Also You can get into mid to low 13's easy just practice practice practice. Anthony is a phenomenal driver and his car is extremly light. 1/4 mile racing has alot to do with driver ability!!
Mike

ssvr6

· #12 · Feb 15, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (VWMike81)

I agree, it's not like Anthony's car is making some insane power. It's really light and he's a great driver.
Simple as that.
Steve

-DTM-

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 15, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (ssvr6)

Ok, since I know very little about build a successful drag car, tell me how to do it. What mods would you do? How would you get the weight down? I'd like to have it down to 2500 w/ my 150 lb a$$. Is this a reasonable goal? Are 256's good for drag racing because they keep your torque up? I have so many question's. Who could I email that could help me with this?

[Modified by -DTM-, 1:00 AM 2-15-2002]

2035cc16v

· #14 · Feb 15, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (-DTM-)

best bet is to buy any and aLL Books on race car fabrication and drag racing that you can find. while not vw specific it really doesnt have to be to apply the theories.

there is far too much information for email exchanges, it takes years to be good...

[Modified by 2035cc16v, 11:53 AM 2-15-2002]

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hsd16vdub

· #15 · Feb 16, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (need_a_VR6)

quote:[HR][/HR]More overlap requires a car to have more static compression to maintain the dynamic compression required for proper combustion. [HR][/HR]

paul u ever think about making that into a song?

i cant even imagine the low end loss from a 288

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need_a_VR6

· #16 · Feb 18, 2002

3

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (hsd16vdub)

Rule #2, listen to Drew! He has alot of drag specific experience, whereas I only have an experiment that has yet to run

I bet you could get the times you need without serious motor work if you just lighten the car a good amount, get some nice slicks on bogarts and practice, practice, practice...
Anthony guesses his whp at around 180 with a 2200-2300lb car. Your A2 could be in that same region quite easily. At that point it's all up to the driver.
Jay, I think it's already in a song, it's by MotorHead

Anyone got a set of 288s I can borrow, I want to try it

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-DTM-

Discussion Starter · #17 · Feb 18, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (need_a_VR6)

The 288 cams are from TT. They require a special cylinder head w/ shorter valve stems or something like that.

need_a_VR6

· #18 · Feb 18, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (-DTM-)

I thought anything that big might require head clearencing or special valve stems to deal with it. If you're talking about doing things like that, you're talking about a full on RACE motor running 100+ octane and CRs that you wouldn't use on the street. To get the RPMs necessary to use overlap like that you're talking about a well balanced bottom end, alot of headwork, custom management, solid lifters, etc.
Don't bother building a street motor around this cam (IMO, of course) I don't think it'll work out well for you.

matt007

· #19 · Feb 19, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (need_a_VR6)

The cheapest way might be just to cheat and go DPI nitrous oxide
Our cheap 92 octane gas in Oregon isn't going to take well to very high compression

ssvr6

· #20 · Feb 19, 2002

Re: Help me go low 13's All Motor (matt007)

quote:[HR][/HR]The cheapest way might be just to cheat and go DPI nitrous oxide.
Our cheap 92 octane gas in Oregon isn't going to take well to very high compression[HR][/HR]

I don't understand why people have this conception that N2O is cheating. I'm in the planning process of my direct port MK3 12v VR6 and by no means will it be cheating.
Steve

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