[rick_chicago]

This post is a bit similar to the earlier "12k car" post, but I'm hoping my details will help keep the discussion a bit more focused.
Winter will be ending soon, and a project car is tops on my list for this summer. I just need some help picking one.
Here's the background:
I live in the suburbs of Chicago. Married, and in my 30's w/no kids yet. We have a 2001.5 New Passat (leased) and I have a 1989 Jeep Wrangler (my city car)...
I completed my first driving school last year at Thunderhill Raceway in Calif. (in a rental 4-cyl. Galant...ugh). I am now looking forward to track time at the various Chicago-area tracks.
So I need a car. Once all the mods are done, I'll get rid of my Jeep, but will keep it to have a driver while I work on the mods.
Here's what I am looking for help with:
1. Use - this car will be a daily driver (short 9-mile commute to downtown Chicago). It will also be my track car (SOLO I SCCA-type stuff). We have a Passat for our 4-door family-type duties, so space is not a concern.
2. Price - I'd like to spend no more than 15k total, including mods. Optimally, I'd like the base car to be under 10k.
My first concern is mileage. I'd like a lower-mileage car, but that is less of a concern if you think I will just swap the engine entirely.
No Porsches. I've seen lots of you rant and rave about how great 944's, 924's etc. are. I want something less flashy (sleepers rule), and I know parts and service for Porsches can be murder.
Let me explain what I've been considering, and try to help you all guide me in my purchase.
FYI - I'm a long-time car nut, but I don't have a large body of knowledge in engine/body designations. (E36 BMW, S13 Nissan, etc.). Try and recommend makes, models, and trim levels. If you are talking engine swaps, try and tell me what the engine comes from.
Here's what I've been thinking of:
1. Mid-90's GTI w/4-cyl. turbo as base, then swap the turbo, suspension, exhaust, brakes, and wheels/tires, etc.
2. Early 90's Sentra SE-R base (damn hard to find)...but being normally aspirated, would this be a difficult car to modify?
3. 90's acura Integra...then add the mods...Is the GSR the only thing I should consider?
My main track buddy will be running a '98 A4 2.8, with some minor suspension mods and a cold air intake. (He's also building a Cobra replica with a 528 Hemi - but we will disregard that monster). I'd like to be able to hang with him on the track.
My California buddy runs a chipped '00 S4, but I he's 3000 miles away, so I doubt I will see him on the track here. It would be nice if I could build something that would keep up with THAT...
OK. That's it. Impart your wisdom.

 

[Obin Robinson]

Re: Help me pick a car... (rick_chicago)

buy a Scirocco 16V. trust me you'll be loving it and it won't kill the wallet. they're just as fast at the Porsche 924/944 (well, fast, but they can't HANDLE like the Porsches can

) and they're daily-driver reliable. i had a similar quandry to you and i picked the Scirocco 16v over a hundred other cars out there. yeah, the 924/944 attract too much attention. the Scirocco 16V is a very nice sleeper.
the Scirocco 16V will fit two people perfectly, 4 people still fit OK. i have no back seats in mine so we can fit a ton of stuff with no problems (space like a station wagon)
good luck! (no matter what you get)
obin

 

[gtivr4]

Re: Help me pick a car... (rick_chicago)

Well the mid 90s GTI didn't come with a turbo.
Is FWD a requirement? For autoxing etc, I would say a RWD car is more likely to be suited to your purposes.
But as FWD goes, I would say get a nice Integra GSR. Strong motor (reliable and has good power), good handling out of the box, common. And the best part... huge aftermarket (especially good for wings). Too common? get a sedan!
The best RWD would probably be a Miata. They do wonderfully in Autocross. Add a convertible to the garage for fun, and a solid aftermarket.
Of course you could also get say a cheap 240sx and mod the snot out of it. Depends on how far you want to go.

 

[gtivr4]

Re: Help me pick a car... (Obin Robinson)

quote:[HR][/HR]the Scirocco 16V will fit two people perfectly, 4 people still fit OK. i have no back seats in mine so we can fit a ton of stuff with no problems (space like a station wagon)
obin[HR][/HR]​

Um... 4 of what sized people? Oh wait... GOOD suggestion (read signature)


[Modified by gtivr4, 3:55 PM 2-12-2002]

 

[Spiro SU]

Re: Help me pick a car... (gtivr4)

I'd say a '88-'92 RX-7, the older version before the last generation they had produced, in turbo of course. Those things can come by cheap and can be made super fast, believe me. Also, an old eclipse/talon with the turbo system, same theory; they're inexpensive, and with a turbo replacement and/or with the addition of $3,000 in mods, they'll be killer on the track.

 

[dts]

Re: Help me pick a car... (gtivr4)

If you're thinking of an early 90s Sentra SE-R, also take a look at the Nissan NX2000. Same engine, lower center of gravity, bigger tires. Weird ovoid styling....
It was generally considered to be the best-handling front-driver of its time, and was the choice of many SOLO autocrossers.

 

[aroravi]

Re: Help me pick a car... (rick_chicago)

i would go with a 240sx....u can pick one up for a pretty good price and u can mod the living daylights out of it...plus your friends prob wont look at it as too much competition for them....good luck

 

[AKADriver]

Re: Help me pick a car... (rick_chicago)

The GTI 1.8t didn't come out until 1999, and your budget would get you a stocker and that's it. A '95-'98 GTI is probably not what you want.. the 4cyl handles great but is slow; the VR6 is fast but heavy, and feels it. The only VW I would recommend would be an extra-clean early '90s GTI 16v.
The "classic" SE-R is a wonderful car... hard to find, but inexpensive when you do. There's always the NX2000, which is mechanically very close but styled differently.
'90s Integra, don't bother with anything but a GS-R. Whether you get a 2nd gen ('89-'93) or a third gen ('94-'01) doesn't really matter if you plan on modifying, Hondas have such an enormous aftermarket that the main technical difference comes from the added 100cc of the later car.
Now, for my suggestions:
'91-'95 MR2 turbo
'91-'93 240SX with Japanese-market '91-'93 Silvia/'91-'99 180SX engine (SR20DET)... no go if you have visual emissions inspections.
'94-'97 Mazda Miata 1.8L
'92-'95 Honda Civic Si

 

[2k2gti]

Re: Help me pick a car... (gtivr4)

I'm gonna have to vote for the Miata. You could pick up an early 90's model for $5-$6k, add either a turbo, or supercharger, suspension, tires and your set for a grand total of proabably $10k-$11k.

 

[Jettavr666]

Re: Help me pick a car... (2k2gti)

older miata, highly modded, thats what iwant to do this summer too

 

[7.62]

Re: Help me pick a car... (2k2gti)

quote:[HR][/HR]I'm gonna have to vote for the Miata. You could pick up an early 90's model for $5-$6k, add either a turbo, or supercharger, suspension, tires and your set for a grand total of proabably $10k-$11k. [HR][/HR]​

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

 

[nmap]

Re: Help me pick a car... (Y2kSI)

miata. you can throw non IC'd turbos at them with low boost and they'll run all day.
personally i'm selling the VW and building a 240 because i want to be a little different

 

[RJetta8V]

Re: Help me pick a car... (rick_chicago)

Well, as a Datsun owner I HAVE to tell you to get a 510. $15k will get you a VERY nice one.
Datsun 510, desent condition- $3k
SR20DET imported from Japan- $3k
Suspension modifications- $3k
Look on your friends face when his hemi powered Cobra is beaten by your 510- Priceless
Ok, now for the bad stuff: The engine swap will NOT be a bolt on. You will probably have to fabricate alot of parts such as motor mounts. Suspension modifications are available, but it's hard to find a product which will give you what you want. The rear suspension set-up makes them VERY tail-happy (guess why mines on jack stands). And your friend wont be very happy when you beat him in a 510.
Anywho, back to reality. Here are the cars I would buy on your budget:
Sentra SE-R (classic)
NX2000
1st gen RX-7's
Rabbit GTI
Miata
MR2

 

[rick_chicago]

Re: Help me pick a car... (rick_chicago)

Update: I also want to rule out Miatas, or any convertible for that matter.
Roll bars are pretty much mandatory on convertibles on the track, and I want to try to do most mods myself.
Roll bars = blowtorches, welding, and structural mods, not to mention screwing up the profile of the car itself.

 

[dfinn]

Re: Help me pick a car... (RJetta8V)

yeah, how about a rabbit gti. i honestly don't know much at all about auto-x but from what I've heard they do awesome in autocross. if you look hard you can still find them out there under 100k miles. i've heard the 8v is more reliable and better suited to autocross due to all it's torque down low. i got mine for about 1800, it had pretty low miles, was really clean, and fairly well modded already. hopefully i'll be doing some auto-x in it this summer.


[Modified by dfinn, 2:34 PM 2-12-2002]

 

[gtivr4]

Re: Help me pick a car... (rick_chicago)

Roll Bar = lots of them made for the Miata. Bolt on I believe. A roll bar should not be the restricting factor here!
And a Rabbit = wicked old chasis design! You would have to spend a lot to get it to handle as well as a well sorted Miata.
Oh... if you wanna go REALLY fast... build a Lotus Seven! For $15k, you could build an absolute monster! http://www.championmotorcars.com - stage II kit - $8000. Motor (Hayabuse 1300cc motorcycle - 170hp) - $3000.
Add some tires and wheels, a few odds and ends and you will blow away anything!


[Modified by gtivr4, 5:36 PM 2-12-2002]

 

[crash813]

Re: Help me pick a car... (rick_chicago)

Personally, I would decide what type of racing you want to do.
Then what class and how competitive you want to be. Also, remember keeping a race car as a daily driver limits greatly what you can do.
Then start narrowing down the choices. Any car can be fun racing, but few are competitive in their classes, esp stock or near stock classes. Doing things like adding aftermarket SC and turbos or engines swaps can completly eliminate you from some types of racing and certainly won't be competitive.
Personally I like the 325/328 or even e30 but that is definately stretching the budget and you won't find low mileage ones even close.
Miatas, MR2 non-turbo, Neons, A1 GTi or A2 16v would all be fun. A newer 2.0 protege or even a ZX3 would be good at both racing and getting you to work.

 

[theevilshiftkey]

Re: Help me pick a car... (gtivr4)

92 Miata = $4000
Simple 6psi turbo = $1300
More stuff for turbo to run 10psi = $3000
Total = $8000-ish for the faster one and plenty left over for other mods (suspension, wheels and brakes). The price goes up drastically after 1994 for a basic turbo.
Rollbar for the Miata bolts in easy and IMPROVES the car, not the other way around.
My other vote would be a CRX. Drop a newer engine in there and hang on! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

 

[rick_chicago]

Re: Help me pick a car... (rick_chicago)

OK...More updates...
I didn't realize how easy rollbars can be mated up...Miatas may be a consideration...
I am, of course, assuming rollbars will in no way impact the convertible top, or the possibility of using the hardtop for it (this IS Chicago, after all)...
No convertibles unless the rollbar is bolt-on, then.
And NO RX-7!!!
(I had an early-80's RX-7, and blew an Apex seal on one of the rotors. I'd prefer a car that uses pistons, as my mechanical knowledge is better mated to that...I know, Wankel had a great idea, but work with me on this one, guys).
And I should admit that styling is a factor. NX2000's look too cutesy for me (seems like they did all of the R&D for that one in the sorority house parking lot)...CRX's...well, styling is just too dated, and they tend to look like doo-doo as they age (plastics look like hell, etc.)...

 

[rick_chicago]

Re: Help me pick a car... (RJetta8V)

When I took my first driving school at Thunderhill in California, one of the instructors took me for a lap in his modded 510....
all I can say is...WOW, that thing was fast. Incredible handling. I think he said he was running twin weber carbs, full coil-over suspension...
I wouldn't be surprised to see that thing hang with 911 TT's and the like on the track...
The only drawback was the interior and styling...It looked like an old boat...but at the same time, it had a classic feel.