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Discussion Starter #1
General Motors will partially offset the cost of developing electric technology by manufacturing battery-powered cars for Hondaand Acura, according to an unverified report. Ultium battery technology is at the center of the deal.

Without citing sources, industry trade journal Automotive News wrote that Honda has agreed to enlist rival-turned-partner General Motors as one of its EV suppliers during the first half of the 2020s. The factory that currently builds Chevrolet's Blazer and Equinox in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico, will begin manufacturing a Honda crossover in 2023, meaning it likely won't arrive until the 2024 model year. On the other side of the border, the former Saturn plant in Spring Hill, Tennessee, will churn out an Acura crossover beginning in 2024, about two years after it starts making the Cadillac Lyriq. Neither model has been revealed, and Honda hasn't commented on the report.
So now we know what Honda will get out of it’s participation in GM’s Ultium EV platform. I would’ve sworn it would’ve been a full sized EV truck, but crossovers make sense.
 

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I guess Honda really thought Trump would win reelection and cancel the 2025 CAFE. They evidently made no investments in mid to large size EVs so they are scrambling to catch up. And we make fun of FCA for not having an EV strategy... looks like Honda is the real fool of the bunch. I can't think of any other major car companies that operate in the US market having no internally developed mid and large EVs coming out by 2023:

GM - assorted ultium projects, fullsize pickup EV
Ford - F-150 and Transit EV, MACH E, and Edge replacement, Rivian investment
FCA - PSA to the rescue... kidding... sort of. Jeep has some token EV plans I think
Tesla - 👌
Toyota - solid state battery projects coming soon
Nissan - Ariya
Hyundai - Ioniq family launching soon
VW - ID.# family
BMW - "i" version of every major model
Daimler - EQ family
Geely - Polestar family and EV version of Volvo models
Mazda - MX-30 and also part of Toyota's EV program
Subaru - part of Toyota's EV program
Honda - we done F'ed up so badly we gonna just rebadge GM models
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I guess Honda really thought Trump would win reelection and cancel the 2025 CAFE. They evidently made no investments in mid to large size EVs so they are scrambling to catch up. And we make fun of FCA for not having an EV strategy... looks like Honda is the real fool of the bunch. I can't think of any other major car companies that operate in the US market having no internally developed mid and large EVs coming out by 2023:

GM - assorted ultium projects, fullsize pickup EV
Ford - F-150 and Transit EV, MACH E, and Edge replacement, Rivian investment
FCA - PSA to the rescue... kidding... sort of. Jeep has some token EV plans I think
Tesla - 👌
Toyota - solid state battery projects coming soon
Nissan - Ariya
Hyundai - Ioniq family launching soon
VW - ID.# family
BMW - "i" version of every major model
Daimler - EQ family
Geely - Polestar family and EV version of Volvo models
Mazda - MX-30 and also part of Toyota's EV program
Subaru - part of Toyota's EV program
Honda - we done F'ed up so badly we gonna just rebadge GM models
Honda will probably be doing more than a rebadge. In an ideal world, Honda’s involvement might increase the build quality and interior materials quality of the GM products on this platform.

In an interesting repeat of history, Acura and Honda return to GM for CUV/SUVs. In the 90/00s, GM subsidiary Isuzu built SUVs for Acura and Honda.
 

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Is it a bad misstep by Honda, or are they doing their typical let's see how it all pans out and what work, what doesn't, and then we'll invest and develop the technology that's showing to be more superior. In the meantime, they'll sell rebadged and reworked GM products, at low margins.
 

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I guess Honda really thought Trump would win reelection and cancel the 2025 CAFE. They evidently made no investments in mid to large size EVs so they are scrambling to catch up. And we make fun of FCA for not having an EV strategy... looks like Honda is the real fool of the bunch. I can't think of any other major car companies that operate in the US market having no internally developed mid and large EVs coming out by 2023:
Do 'mid to large' EVs matter more than compacts? Honda has an electric vehicle platform, and the Honda e is getting rave reviews in the markets where it's sold. In typical Honda fashion, it seems like they're going to focus on their bread-and-butter and then can expand once they've got that in a good place.
 

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Honda - we done F'ed up so badly we gonna just rebadge GM models
Honda was always LATE on EVERYTHING. Remember Honda was 1 of 2 auto makers developed/selling hybrid cars and how many years took Honda to sell the first hybrid in Acura? how late Honda/Acura had 6-sp auto transmission? Honda is always famous in making good quality value car and small engines. Game changing innovation? VTEC... what else?

Honda also wasted $$ on that stupid Asimo and Jet. How many years for Asimo just to go up and down stairs?
 

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Honda was always LATE on EVERYTHING. Remember Honda was 1 of 2 auto makers developed/selling hybrid cars and how many years took Honda to sell the first hybrid in Acura? how late Honda/Acura had 6-sp auto transmission? Honda is always famous in making good quality value car. Game changing innovation? VTEC... what else?

Honda also wasted $$ on that stupid Asimo and Jet. How many years for Asimo just to go up and down stairs?
I wouldn't call the Asimo, and especially the Honda Jet stupid. Keep in mind that Honda has a lot of engineering exercises, and historically has always given their engineers room to "play" and learn. At the end of the day they manufacture a lot of products, from lawn care, generators, motorcyles, and cars, so it's doing non-automotive projects is far from unusual for the Honda Motor Company.
 

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Is it a bad misstep by Honda, or are they doing their typical let's see how it all pans out and what work, what doesn't, and then we'll invest and develop the technology that's showing to be more superior. In the meantime, they'll sell rebadged and reworked GM products, at low margins.
I think you're right. The Japanese brands are usually quite restrained with new tech.
 

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Honda also wasted $$ on that stupid Asimo and Jet. How many years for Asimo just to go up and down stairs?
I for one am glad they're forward-thinking. This was never supposed to pay off in just 10 or 20 years. Now, in another 20 years where do you think their robot tech will be? Asimo can run, climb stairs, help a human carry a large thing and shift weight side-to-side, and some other things in a self-contained humanoid robot shape. Two more decades of development may mean a humanoid robot you can buy that washes your dishes, makes your bed and gets the mail. That'd be cool. Since I'll be 75 in 20 years that could prove to be useful, too!

Me: "Do the dishes and then clean the cat box, Asimo."
Asimo: "By your command."
 

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Honda was always LATE on EVERYTHING. Remember Honda was 1 of 2 auto makers developed/selling hybrid cars and how many years took Honda to sell the first hybrid in Acura? how late Honda/Acura had 6-sp auto transmission? Honda is always famous in making good quality value car and small engines. Game changing innovation? VTEC... what else?

Honda also wasted $$ on that stupid Asimo and Jet. How many years for Asimo just to go up and down stairs?
Surprised you didn't put the part about the Si not having a DSG or automatic option in there lol
 

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Do 'mid to large' EVs matter more than compacts? Honda has an electric vehicle platform, and the Honda e is getting rave reviews in the markets where it's sold. In typical Honda fashion, it seems like they're going to focus on their bread-and-butter and then can expand once they've got that in a good place.
Yes, "mid to large EV" is entirely the point. US market is the most important market for Honda and tiny EV doesn't sell here. Honda e is more or less irrelevant for the US market but I do agree it is a solid effort.

I don't doubt Honda will catch up. I was just making a straight observation that Honda is the only major car company in North America that doesn't have an active product in development that will hit the market in time for 2025 CAFE compliance. Obviously, this is a corporate decision to delay investment since 2025 CAFE has been very well defined for nearly 10 years now. Every car company have been deep in EV development for North America but Honda has nothing.
 

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It's almost like I typed the same thing months ago.
 

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Honda will probably be doing more than a rebadge. In an ideal world, Honda’s involvement might increase the build quality and interior materials quality of the GM products on this platform.

In an interesting repeat of history, Acura and Honda return to GM for CUV/SUVs. In the 90/00s, GM subsidiary Isuzu built SUVs for Acura and Honda.
It depends on if this is a short term solution for expediency or an actual long term alliance with GM.

If it is a short term thing, I expect the Honda models to have little more than cosmetic difference from GM models. Exactly the same way Isuzu SUVs were rebadged and sold as Honda.

If it is more of long term alliance like Ford-VW's MEB deal, then I expect Honda to actually design its own vehicle and just have GM build it.

Too early to say which way it will turn out but it's clear to me that Honda had no internal EV development to address the need of the US market between 2023 and 2026 timeframe.
 

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Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room.
Atlanta, GA ~ Honda, Ducati
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Too early to say which way it will turn out but it's clear to me that Honda had no internal EV development to address the need of the US market between 2023 and 2026 timeframe.
We had no SUV platform in the mid-90s either, and look how well that turned out.
 

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It depends on if this is a short term solution for expediency or an actual long term alliance with GM.

If it is a short term thing, I expect the Honda models to have little more than cosmetic difference from GM models. Exactly the same way Isuzu SUVs were rebadged and sold as Honda.

If it is more of long term alliance like Ford-VW's MEB deal, then I expect Honda to actually design its own vehicle and just have GM build it.

Too early to say which way it will turn out but it's clear to me that Honda had no internal EV development to address the need of the US market between 2023 and 2026 timeframe.
If you are running Honda, and you can see that the EV future is still unclear, at least in terms of battery tech (e.g. solid state), large manufacturers still investing in fuel cells (Toyota, Hyundai, and you), uncertainty over battery supply chain, etc, and you have small EVs which can cover Europe, who likely will be more successful at banning ICE within a decade or so, would you go all in on a particular EV, or cover the short term with an alliance, and play the wait and see game, and when a winner emerges, go all in on that front?

Additionally, the charging infrastructure isn't going to be there before 2026, so in reality there's no rush, if you can get away without the large investment in EVs.
 

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It depends on if this is a short term solution for expediency or an actual long term alliance with GM.

If it is a short term thing, I expect the Honda models to have little more than cosmetic difference from GM models. Exactly the same way Isuzu SUVs were rebadged and sold as Honda.

If it is more of long term alliance like Ford-VW's MEB deal, then I expect Honda to actually design its own vehicle and just have GM build it.

Too early to say which way it will turn out but it's clear to me that Honda had no internal EV development to address the need of the US market between 2023 and 2026 timeframe.
Reading is fundamental. Straight from the article: "...everything motorists see and touch will be Honda- or Acura-specific. We're not expecting that the tie-up will spawn a pair of blandly badge-engineered crossovers; stylists will likely give each one its own design identity inside and out."
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
It depends on if this is a short term solution for expediency or an actual long term alliance with GM.

If it is a short term thing, I expect the Honda models to have little more than cosmetic difference from GM models. Exactly the same way Isuzu SUVs were rebadged and sold as Honda.

If it is more of long term alliance like Ford-VW's MEB deal, then I expect Honda to actually design its own vehicle and just have GM build it.

Too early to say which way it will turn out but it's clear to me that Honda had no internal EV development to address the need of the US market between 2023 and 2026 timeframe.
This is more than a short-term or superficial alliance.
Remember, Honda and GM partnered back in 2018 or so on the Cruise Origin self-driving vehicle platform (which will also be Ultium-based).
OEM car companies are using strategic alliances and partnerships to spread around the costs of EV development.
This doesn't mean Honda (or GM) won't develop EVs outside of this alliance, or partner with other OEMs or suppliers, on other projects.
I could even imagine Honda taking the lead on a mid-sized or compact passenger sedan EV platform, that GM would use, to return to the sedan segment.

GM’s Cruise will get $2.75 billion from Honda to build a new self-driving car - The Verge

GM, Honda partner to develop two new all-electric vehicles (cnbc.com)
 
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