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Honda tempers 'out of whack' expectations for EV demand in U.S.

“We’ve told our Honda dealers that initially this is going to be very regional” for EV sales, Dave Gardner, executive vice president of Honda’s U.S. subsidiary, said at a briefing. “What is the consumer uptake? Right now, I think that’s something that’s a little out of whack” with automakers’ efforts to rush EVs to market, he said.
Is this talk track being driven by American Honda Motor Manufacturing, or by the mothership in Japan? Enquiring minds want to know.
 

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Just like FCA (oops, sorry, Stellantis), they’ll backtrack within 18-24 months after Chevy, H/K, and Ford release their major bread n’ butter EV offerings.

Honda (and Toyota) shareholders will demand as much.
 

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Plenty of segments are regional. AWD is more popular in snowy climates. Pickup trucks are less popular in dense city centers. I'd wager even Honda is more/less popular in certain areas.
 
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I feel like the ev push is similar to bully politics. Plenty of automakers have voiced their stances only to do a 180 because of the outrage from people who wouldn’t even buy one anyway.

I’m not against the ev push. I just think it’s dumb how some of the manufacturers can’t make up their minds and then start making evs just to appease to a small market.
 

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I feel like the ev push is similar to bully politics. Plenty of automakers have voiced their stances only to do a 180 because of the outrage from people who wouldn’t even buy one anyway.

I’m not against the ev push. I just think it’s dumb how some of the manufacturers can’t make up their minds and then start making evs just to appease to a small market.
IS it a small market though?
 

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Plenty of segments are regional. AWD is more popular in snowy climates. Pickup trucks are less popular in dense city centers. I'd wager even Honda is more/less popular in certain areas.
Yeah, you're right. Somebody had a thread about what vehicle was most popular in what state.

It is correct and a natural occurrence. EVs will do better in some locales than others, it's only logical. The difference will probably come down to EV infrastructure differences and area climate.
 

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Just like FCA (oops, sorry, Stellantis), they’ll backtrack within 18-24 months after Chevy, H/K, and Ford release their major bread n’ butter EV offerings.

Honda (and Toyota) shareholders will demand as much.
Ford's bread and butter is the gas F-150.

The gas powered F series as a whole sold 726,000 units last year. That's true bread and real butter. And that's not goung to change anytime soon.
 

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I feel like the ev push is similar to bully politics. Plenty of automakers have voiced their stances only to do a 180 because of the outrage from people who wouldn’t even buy one anyway.

I’m not against the ev push. I just think it’s dumb how some of the manufacturers can’t make up their minds and then start making evs just to appease to a small market.
I talked to two coworkers today about cars and EVs in particular, they expressed a sense that EVs are being "pushed" and believe at some point they will be "forced" into EVs and resent the notion.

If done wrong, EVs can become more of a political football and they could get on the wrong side of public favor and suffer the image problem of the wagon and minivan. Or worse, if people feel they are being forced to do something they don't want to do, as we have all witnessed these last two years, there could be backlash. EVs could become a negative political symbol.

I don't wish for that to happen and if they let it happen naturally, it won't. Give people desirable products at a decent value and all will be fine, in it's own time.

For the EV product mix, battery tech and value metric to reach those parameters, it will take more time. Toyota's approach is the right one, play longball.

Honda sees it too, reading the article. Agreeing that EVs are too consolidated in California and one brand, Tesla:

Dave Gardner, executive vice president of Honda’s U.S. subsidiary, said at a briefing. “What is the consumer uptake? Right now, I think that’s something that’s a little out of whack” with automakers’ efforts to rush EVs to market, he said.

Rather than swelling demand for battery-powered vehicles by U.S. buyers, Gardner said the increase in EV models is driven by tighter state and national fuel economy standards -- and that Tesla Inc. has been the chief beneficiary.

“Right now, most BEV business is being done by one company (Tesla) and that’s being sold in very select markets,(California)” he said.
 

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I talked to two coworkers today about cars and EVs in particular, they expressed a sense that EVs are being "pushed" and believe at some point they will be "forced" into EVs and resent the notion.

If done wrong, EVs can become more of a political football and they could get on the wrong side of public favor and suffer the image problem of the wagon and minivan. Or worse, if people feel they are being forced to do something they don't want to do, as we have all witnessed these last two years, there could be backlash. EVs could become a negative political symbol.

I don't wish for that to happen and if they let it happen naturally, it won't. Give people desirable products at a decent value and all will be fine, in it's own time.

For the EV product mix, battery tech and value metric to reach those parameters, it will take more time. Toyota's approach is the right one, play longball.

Honda sees it too, reading the article. Agreeing that EVs are too consolidated in California and one brand, Tesla:

Dave Gardner, executive vice president of Honda’s U.S. subsidiary, said at a briefing. “What is the consumer uptake? Right now, I think that’s something that’s a little out of whack” with automakers’ efforts to rush EVs to market, he said.

Rather than swelling demand for battery-powered vehicles by U.S. buyers, Gardner said the increase in EV models is driven by tighter state and national fuel economy standards -- and that Tesla Inc. has been the chief beneficiary.

“Right now, most BEV business is being done by one company (Tesla) and that’s being sold in very select markets,(California)” he said.
Why do people think EVs are being pushed on them? As far I know, the majority of the cars that are on sale are still ICE. Luxury brands are marketing EVs, but EVs are still a small part of their mix. Chevy has ONE electric car, and like 10 ICE vehicles. Where’s this perception of “pushing” coming from? Used cars far exceed the number of new cars sold, and it’ll be decades before EVs replace ICE cars in the used fleet. Your coworkers who continually buy CPO Camrys, will have many many years of off lease ICE Camrys to purchase.
 

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Why do people think EVs are being pushed on them? As far I know, the majority of the cars that are on sale are still ICE. Luxury brands are marketing EVs, but EVs are still a small part of their mix. Chevy has ONE electric car, and like 10 ICE vehicles. Where’s this perception of “pushing” coming from? Used cars far exceed the number of new cars sold, and it’ll be decades before EVs replace ICE cars in the used fleet. Your coworkers who continually buy CPO Camrys, will have many many years of off lease ICE Camrys to purchase.
It's the public narrative from recent national and local initiatives and proposed legislation they tried to pass. The fact is that the majority of buyers don't want an EV, it's foreign to them, they see the push as a push against what they want. Even an EV site states in a survey that 69% of consumers didn't want EVs or even hybrids. That's substantial. Only 5% did want EVs, a very low number and inline with the actual 3% EVs get now.

It's foriegn to the majority of buyers and the image of EVs differs depending on locale.

People forget vehicles are commodities. You spend your money on what you want and won't react kindly if you're pressed to do otherwise. Especially if it's a nascent and highly limited product in infrastructure, price and product mix.

You're right that it's early days and they will be able to drive gas cars for their entire lifetimes if the market dictates what sells.

For you, I and the rest of the country, this shouldn't turn into a political wedge or a stick used to force the market too harshly. If the last two years have shown us anything, it's that there will be substantial push back if people feel they are made to do what they don't want to do.

And politicians on all sides will fan flames that favor them on election day in either direction.

The solution is to let it happen naturally. There's some interesting EVs coming on line soon, let's see how well and where they sell and see if automakers can make them work for our market.

Use the stick and they will get the stick. Remember, people are using their money to buy vehicles, it's mostly a want and a costly one.
 

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you're kidding, right?
I’m not.
Last month, it was a “December to Remember”, and Lexus and multiple other car companies were heavily pushing the idea that we need to buy luxury cars for our partners for Christmas. Televised NFL games are wall to commercials for full sized trucks. Tesla doesn’t even advertise on TV, while Ford and Toyota’s full sized trucks both sponsor NFL pre and post game shows. If anything, I feel like full sized trucks are being crammed down our throats.
 

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I’m not.
Last month, it was a “December to Remember”, and Lexus and multiple other car companies were heavily pushing the idea that we need to buy luxury cars for our partners for Christmas. Televised NFL games are wall to commercials for full sized trucks. Tesla doesn’t even advertise on TV, while Ford and Toyota’s full sized trucks both sponsor NFL pre and post game shows. If anything, I feel like full sized trucks are being crammed down our throats.
No, you sell what people want, hence the ads you saw. People want that, it's not forced. Especially now with the chip shortage, demand is huge. That's where the market is.

A national and local political push for a small 3% niche product that the majority doesn't even want? Now you have a case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If anything, I feel like full sized trucks are being crammed down our throats.
yes, because the news is full of stories about how states are going to ban sedans and vans by the year 2030.

You do know there's a difference between advertising and legislating, right?

Right?
 

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yes, because the news is full of stories about how states are going to ban sedans and vans by the year 2030.

You do know there's a difference between advertising and legislating, right?

Right?
I guess it depends on who you’re talking to and what you’re political perspective is. My friends, car geeks or otherwise, don’t spend a lot of time complaining about legislation that’s going to force them to buy EVs.
 

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No, you sell what people want, hence the ads you saw. People want that, it's not forced. Especially now with the chip shortage, demand is huge. That's where the market is.

A national and local political push for a small 3% niche product that the majority doesn't even want? Now you have a case.
It’s 1000% forced to try to sell people on leasing a new Lexus every 3 years, or buying a new iPhone while the current one still works fine. It’s manufactured desire. You can manufacture desire for an ICE F150 or a BEV KIA.
 

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I guess it depends on who you’re talking to and what you’re political perspective is. My friends, car geeks or otherwise, don’t spend a lot of time complaining about legislation that’s going to force them to buy EVs.
Your friends, especially car geeks will if this plays out wrong with too forceful a push when the market isn't receptive to it. And if they over reach it will be an apolitical response because the majority will agree that it's too aggressive.

Nobody is forcing people into gas SUVs/CUVs and trucks, people voted with their dollars and drove the market in that direction. And EVs could only get 3% of the action.
 

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It’s 1000% forced to try to sell people on leasing a new Lexus every 3 years, or buying a new iPhone while the current one still works fine. It’s manufactured desire. You can manufacture desire for an ICE F150 or a BEV KIA.
Seriously? Aw, c'mon man, you're better than that, nobody is forced to lease a Lexus, lol.

Chevrolet can't force people hard enough to buy a Bolt, 18,000 units per anum and lucky to get it. But legislation could try make people do it and again, the pushback would be real. Nobody wants that thing.
 

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Your friends, especially car geeks will if this plays out wrong with too forceful a push when the market isn't receptive to it. And if they over reach it will be an apolitical response because the majority will agree that it's too aggressive.

Nobody is forcing people into gas SUVs/CUVs and trucks, people voted with their dollars and drove the market in that direction. And EVs could only get 3% of the action.
We haven’t voted for ICE cars. It’s literally been the only choice for like 90 years, outside of diesel. That’s like saying we voted to breath oxygen. The existing infrastructure (which is totally supported by incentives from governments) makes buying an ICE car an easy choice. As the infrastructure improves for EVs, and the costs for EVs reach parity with EVs, that 3% number will likely improve.
 
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