[g60-inside]

i got a line on a drivable passat syncro for $2500 canadian$. how hard is the swap for the AWD drivetrain to the corrado? does it require changin the floor pan, or is it purely a mechanical swap? i dont care about the gas tank, or the exhaust. just the drivetrain. how hard is it really?
or should i just buy the passat, fix it up as a daily driver/ winter beater? i know they arent as fast, but a quick AWD vw wagon sounds fun too. i wanted a quantum syncro, but they are a tad slowish.
the current owner of the car just bought it because it was AWD, but he doesnt know anything about it other than parts are hard to get and expensive. he says he only had it for a month and a half, but its a PITA. is $2500 cdn a good price? what is that in US$, around $1500?

 

[SmokeGolfG60T]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (g60-inside)

is that the new passat? I didnt know that the older passat has AWD.

 

[nigel]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (g60-inside)

It is a good price for the drivetrain.
'90 to '92 passats that came into canada had the option of a g-60 engine and a syncro drivetrain. the rear wheels were not driven until the front wheels started to rotate faster causing shear forces in a silicone filled viscous coupling at the back of the driveshaft to build and lock the coupling transmiting power to the rear diff and wheels.
you could check out this guys page www.vr6rabbit.com he has transplanted the driveline and a VR-6 powerplant into a rabbit.
also Momentum Motor sports have both built Mk-2 and Mk-3 based syncro golfs, because the floor pans are available since these cars are available with this option in other markets. HPA has also done this but only on MK-3's and of course the very different 4motion system in a new beetle and mk-4 golf. I have heard rumors of a couple of corrados that have a syncro system on the east coast but have no factual info.
there would be alot of fabrication involved with this swap, you may be better off importing a rallye golf or finding one forsale on momentums page or else where since these have the drivetrain you seek already intergrated into the chassis.

 

[TBT-Syncro]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (nigel)

It only came as a 92'. (the left overs were sold as 93s).
It starts off as a 90/10 front to back bias but can go to 50/50.
There have been a couple of corrado conversions done with this setup (the passat syncro and corrado shared almost all of their drivetrain). You will have to use the floor pan from the passat for this conversion (hacked and spliced with the corrado one).
and yes a g60 syncro is a damn fun car.

 

[swingwing205]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (TBT-PassatG60)

quote:[HR][/HR]and yes a g60 syncro is a damn fun car.

[HR][/HR]​

That is an understatement......It's also one of the best feeling and handing bigger cars I've ever driven. The Syncro drivetrain and the G60 made an excellent combination. The ride is stellar in quality, but Syncros are poorly understood beasts.

 

[N'Syncro]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (g60-inside)

How many km / miles are on that setup?

 

[smoked_g60]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (g60-inside)

It's a great price, but rare AWD carries it's own price in parts. You DO NOT need the floor pan, the center tunnel is allready wide enuf to fit the driveshaft.
In addition to the drive train you do need:
Fuel tank (depends on type, I have a rallye one for sale)
Rear suspension mounting plates from a rallye golf (200)
A rear hard point for the syncro, either the passat beam section, or a custom jobbie.
Center driveshaft from the rallye or shorten the passat one.
Tons of patience!! Any 10 Yo car from canada will have tons of rust. How do I know? I am doing the exact same thing.
Did you hear his reason for selling? Parts cost, that indicates the need for serious overhaul of the syncro.
You will be in for some parts cost too...
Bearing hangars for driveshaft are like 100 each, there is a cheaper CV replacement tho
The rear shocks/springs are not cheap either. I believe there are three companies making suspension kits H&R, KW and one more. From anecdote the rabbit fronts work with some mods.
There is no replacement for the rear swaybar...you get what you get.
And the ONLY way to pull the motor is to remove the front clip. It sounds harder, until you try doing it without.
You really need to do lots of research, I have been learning for a year or more and still am somewhat clueless. Finding a Snsro mechanic or even one who knows what you are talking about is a challenge in itself.
BTW a quick search would have turned up the exchange rate.

 

[N'Syncro]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (smoked_g60)

quote:[HR][/HR]
Any 10 Yo car from canada will have tons of rust. How do I know? I am doing the exact same thing.[HR][/HR]​

Not True....Most 10 yr old eastern cdn cars will, but not all...Mine is nearly rust free (although i'm from central canada)
Did you hear his reason for selling? Parts cost, that indicates the need for serious overhaul of the syncro.

quote:[HR][/HR]I believe there are three companies making suspension kits H&R, KW and one more. From anecdote the rabbit fronts work with some mods.
There is no replacement for the rear swaybar...you get what you get.
And the ONLY way to pull the motor is to remove the front clip. It sounds harder, until you try doing it without.[HR][/HR]​

H+R makes sport springs, KW makes Varient II coilovers (I have a brand new set for sale), and FK makes coilovers too. You can make rabbit shocks work in the rear if you install them upside down and do one other tiny mod to them, and the only other sway bar is the beefier one from europe made for cars that planned on towing things behind their syncro.
And you don't have to remove the front clip to remove the engine... I just took my engine out on saturday. I removed the front part of the car (rad support, bumper, etc), but not the entire clip.


[Modified by N'Syncro, 8:37 AM 9-30-2002]

 

[smoked_g60]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (N'Syncro)

H&R also makes coilovers, I have some. FK that is who it is. Oh yeah, Dynamic Suspension 1200 or so per shock!!!
I didn't mean the Entire front clip, just everything between the fenders and from the front subframe up. Basically the entire clip.
Obviously the amount of rust is inversely porportional to the care you give it.
(I wonder what "Nearly rust Free" means to one from Canada? Five holes or Less?

J/K)
About the rabbit shocks, a good low buck way to go

But it would be difficult to get kit status, with someone else having picked the dampening and spring rates. Not that this is terrible, just another hump for the hardcore modders to cross.

 

[N'Syncro]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (smoked_g60)

re: the rabbit shocks....I'm really really lazy so if anyone wants to get the full story they can search for them here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syncrog60/
There's quite a few members with the rabbit shocks on the back of there cars.

 

[SaabFan]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (N'Syncro)

I seriously considered doing a synchro swap into my Corrado for a long time, but decided against it. There were several reasons:
1. It just plain didn't seem practical. Tracking down parts for a year or two would have been a fun hooby if I had nothing else to do, but I didn't want to put forth that much effort or money.
2. IMHO, Syncro isn't the best AWD system in the world. It's a viscous fluid system, and it is preloaded towards the front. This means that the car is basically a FWD car until the fronts loose traction, at which point torque is transferred rearwards until the fronts gain traction again.
3. You can buy a nice older Audi, with (again IMHO) the superior quattro Torsen AWD system, for about what the swap would probably cost you, or even less. Torsen diffs operate in a different manner - the car is pre-loaded 50% 50%, and theoretically won't slip until the limits of all four corners are reached - there's no teeny reaction time like with a viscous fluid setup, the Torsen diff is completely mechanical.
I've doing #3 for my winter car this year. I have a line on a nice 5000 turbo quattro wagon - inline 5 cylinder turbo engine making 160 something hp, with 220 hp available with just a chip. Plenty of cargo room, very nice interior with tons of options (power seats, automatic climate controls, etc.) And the guy is asking less than half what I paid for my Corrado.
Realize of course that I'm in no way knocking the idea of this swap - people that have done it sit very high in my eyes, it takes a ton of time and effort. And there's nothing like driving an AWD car. If you've got the knowledge, you can absolutely kick butt in one on snow or other low traction surfaces. Going out into a parking lot in the winter and throwing the car into a sharp corner at speed doesn't result in a spin - you can just put your go foot down and the car striaghtens out and takes off. It's just that I don't see the point, except from a "uniqueness" point of view. And there are other, cheaper, easier things you can to to achieve a similar level of uniqueness with a Corrado.
-Nate

 

[smoked_g60]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (SaabFan)

#1 is quite true...I just got lucky and the right deal fell into my lap.
#2 Is also true, but having a primarilt FWD system isn't all bad, and the intergration into the corrado is about as easy as this kind of thing gets. THe only audis I would consider would be the Ur-quattro or sport quattro, but both those are even more rare than the corrado. Besides the Corrado is undeniabily sexier.
The relative ease of instalation in a corrado is what made me decide on syncro, not it's superiority.
Howeverit does make me wonder about a few ideas I have been kicking around for my Corrado to make the full rally car.
#1 slightly change the size of the tires about 7% smaller rears and remove the VC for 50/50 torque bias and all 4 wheels mechanicaly tied together. Probally would create problems on tarmac, but would be fine in low traction.
#2 Upon the eventual bending/breakage of the syncro rear suspension I want to prototype another IRS much like the picture floating around using the front macphereson reversed in the rear. Since the car will be caged I will just hang the suspension from extensioons of the cage (way oversimplified).
#3 Remove the VC and the front CV's and have a rear wheel drive only option.
1 and 3 would be configureable for different conditions, rear only for tarmac for instance, also less drag. Full lock to get rid of the VC "lag", also to gain sme efficency lost to the VC. It would cause more wear and tear esp under transition from tarmac to gravel.
I don't intend to try to find another syncro rear end so when I damage something beyond repair, it's time for an upgrade.
The other cheaper easier is what scares most off.

 

[nigel]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (smoked_g60)

why not investigate a 4motion swap?

 

[smoked_g60]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (nigel)

I have looked into it, but others are really doing it. I'll wait to see how it works out so they are the guinea pigs

 

[SaabFan]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (smoked_g60)

quote:[HR][/HR]Howeverit does make me wonder about a few ideas I have been kicking around for my Corrado to make the full rally car.[HR][/HR]​

Well, you certainly have some completely interesting ideas. Be sure to keep us well informed, whatever you decide to do!
It's exciting to hear about other people's plans and successes.

-Nate

 

[N'Syncro]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (SaabFan)

Smoked_g60 - you've got some crazy plans

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

And to the rest of you - don't be turned off by the 90/10 power distribution. It always sounds like everyone get turned off by thinking the syncro system is pretty much a fwd car. The time it takes to transfer the power is seemingly nothing, so it really is an AWD car. I guess you'd have to actually drive one to believe me.

 

[g60-inside]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (N'Syncro)

well, its sounds pretty convincing to swap it into a corrado. but even if i dont, i might buy this one and use it for the winter. then i can at least check out the sncro drivetrain and see how hard it will be to swap. but, if i buy it and something breaks i cant afford, or find the parts. then i will just part it out. it sounds like it could easily pay for itself.

 

[swingwing205]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (N'Syncro)

quote:[HR][/HR]Smoked_g60 - you've got some crazy plans

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

And to the rest of you - don't be turned off by the 90/10 power distribution. It always sounds like everyone get turned off by thinking the syncro system is pretty much a fwd car. The time it takes to transfer the power is seemingly nothing, so it really is an AWD car. I guess you'd have to actually drive one to believe me. [HR][/HR]​

Chris is right....The Syncro system, if in good running order is a good AWD system, and was one of the better ones in it's day. 90/10 is only for while you're driving in low performance mode. When you need the grip at any wheel, the Syncro system will take car of you if you (or whoever owned the car before you) take care of it.
Vince....I too have also checked into doing a 4motion swap, and am considering it highly. It's an awesome swap, been done by a lot of Europeans, esecially Brits it seems. 4Motion can handle much more power than the Syncro can (Syncro supposedly about 325hp tops, 4Motion 650 hp safely!), but the parts are very hard to come across. There's a guy who wants to trade me my Syncro set up for a complete TT 6 speed 4Motion set up, and it might just happen. I wouldn't mind having 6 gears to bang around with

 

[smoked_g60]

Re: how hard is a passat AWD swap? (swingwing205)

Yeah, it just depends on whether you use the syncro rear suspension and the 4motion transfercase, differentals, transmission, motor and ECU. From what I have heard they are all tied together, the ecu controlls both the motor and AWD.
Then you have to fab brackets to attach the rear drive train to the syncro, but no or less problems moddding the body.
The even more expensive way would include the entire 4motion rear suspension. However you would have newer, more available stuff without the syncro camber probs. Either way I'll let someone else blaze the trail, then possibly follow if it works.
I would be more interested if there was a way to controll the AWD seprate from the ECU. I think the motorsports applications are electronicaly adjustable.