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How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t?

2K views 44 replies 16 participants last post by  VW97Jetta 
#1 ·
With everybody knowing that the 2.0L motor is one tough engine, "everybody" also knows that it is a very undersized engine to be in such a stout car as the MKIV. I've driven in 4cyl cars that have "felt" just as fast as 6cyl cars because of the weight ratio. But on the MKIV there is no escaping the feeling of 27xxlb's of the 2.0L frame.
If you compute the weight to pwr ratio of the 1.8t - where would the 2.0 be at in respect to the 1.8t? But more importantly, what weight does a 2.0L Dub need to have in order to not have an unbiased weight to pwer ratio?
 
#2 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (2.0LGtiPwr)

the weight diff between a 1.8t and 2.0 aren't all that different...not sure of exact numbers but just think about it. you are not going to be able to strip enough weight off a daily driver, or stock frame for that matter, to be comparable to a 1.8t stock weight.
i don't understand why all you 2.0 mk4 guys are always trying to be like 1.8t guys when you could've just waited a yr (in your case) or paid another 3k at purchase, or trade in...
 
#4 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (punisher89)

quote:[HR][/HR]Basically, you'd have to put your 2.0 into a rabbit. Then it would 'feel' as fast as a 1.8t. but then the 1.8t could just go buy a chip and you'd still be screwed. [HR][/HR]​

he made a funny


33
 
#6 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (maxt)

I test drove a 2003 Jetta 1.8t Loaded just like my MK3. Beside quiet and smooth was not impressed. The car in stock form did not perform as well as I expected. The 1.8t guys hype the heck out of that motor. It is for sure faster than my ride but stock I didn't feel like much faster. I am aware that all it takes is a chip and those things run like 14 sec 1/4 miles. But to me it didn't "feel" any faster than my 2.0. Especially once you hit 3rd gear. They feel almost the same after 3rd.
 
#7 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (GreenA3)

Actually I raced a stock 1.8t tonight. He cruised beside me nudgeing forward till I finally dumped it. I was in 3rd at about 4000 rpm's. Not even one car length by the time I hit 80mph. I was dissapointed that the GTI couldn't bury me. Maybe he needs a chip
 
#8 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (GreenA3)

The 1.8t may not feel much faster but it is way way way faster than the 2.0. Just look at the numbers out there.
quote:[HR][/HR]I test drove a 2003 Jetta 1.8t Loaded just like my MK3. Beside quiet and smooth was not impressed. The car in stock form did not perform as well as I expected. The 1.8t guys hype the heck out of that motor. It is for sure faster than my ride but stock I didn't feel like much faster. I am aware that all it takes is a chip and those things run like 14 sec 1/4 miles. But to me it didn't "feel" any faster than my 2.0. Especially once you hit 3rd gear. They feel almost the same after 3rd.[HR][/HR]​
 
#11 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)

Ok...let's look at your numbers....bone stock, you did 16.0 at 86 mph in your beloved 1.8T in the 1/4. Jeff (allmotor8v is his new SN, I believe) did 15.9 at 86.9 mph in a slightly modified 2.0L. Your point is?
Recently, I had a bit of a "spirited" driving session with a nice new Jetta GLI, which has a bit more HP than my 2.0L, and more than the allmighty 1.8T. Granted, it's about 800lbs heavier than my car.....I didn't get dropped in my "little" 2.0L.
 
#14 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (evoeone)

quote:[HR][/HR]get 12:1 pistons and a 150 dry shot!!!!!
VW97jetta, you are a post ****
HO HO HO
[HR][/HR]​
Ahhhh......high compression pistons - I was going to run that route myself, but didn't want to use race gas. A 150 shot...wow...now THAT would be nice if we could run that, eh? Damn....I couldn't even imagine an instant 150HP increase

Post ****....I have finally attained Vortex post-**** status! YES!!! Now, if I could just get in the Top 10 list, that would be quite an accomplishment. Actually, I was on the computer all morning with my dog sitting beside me who had surgery yesterday, so I was bored....
Perhaps when my car is finished, I'll have to make it out to one of those vitamin shop meets...
 
#17 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (avbcon12)

quote:[HR][/HR]HAHA, i had a 250 shot on my mustang for a little bit and boy does it feel great!
i just wish i could make this 2.0 have a little more pep for daily driving....
take care,
adam[HR][/HR]​
SSSHHHHHH......lots of Mustang haters on here - don't want to get a war started
. Personally, when I see a fully-modded Mustang accelerate from 60-100 mph in like 4 seconds, I'm generally impressed.....
 
#18 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (2.0LGtiPwr)

quote:[HR][/HR]If you compute the weight to pwr ratio of the 1.8t - where would the 2.0 be at in respect to the 1.8t? But more importantly, what weight does a 2.0L Dub need to have in order to not have an unbiased weight to pwer ratio? [HR][/HR]​
what kind of 1.8T, 8v or 20v?
 
#19 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (evoeone)

quote:[HR][/HR]what kind of 1.8T, 8v or 20v?
[HR][/HR]​
02/ 03 MKIV 1.8t to a 02/ 03 2.0 GLS(GTi)
quote:[HR][/HR]Funny. I was gonna say to put it on a scooter and he'll have it beat.[HR][/HR]​
Come to think about it .......... a 115/120trq motor on a scooter or even a lawn mower for that matter would feel quite fast! That being said, the new 03 1.8t's would probably not feel very fast at all in a 6,000lb car. I do believe that the fast "feeling" is very relative to the weight of the car your driving.
[Modified by 2.0LGtiPwr, 5:21 AM 12-4-2002]

[Modified by 2.0LGtiPwr, 5:22 AM 12-4-2002]


[Modified by 2.0LGtiPwr, 5:23 AM 12-4-2002]
 
#20 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (VW97Jetta)

I have an MK4. My car is an auto. With my car slightly modded I ran a 14.5. My point is that the 1.8t is way way way faster than the 2.0!
And the new 200 hp V6 is not all it is cracked up to be. Stock it only makes about 6-7 hp more than the 1.8t at the wheels. Stock vs stock the 1.8t is faster according to VW's web page. Chipped the 1.8t is a good amount faster. So while the 200hp VR6 may make more power than my eninge did stock, now I make more power.
And unless you car weighs 2300 lbs..... you car is not 800 lbs less than a GLI.
quote:[HR][/HR]Ok...let's look at your numbers....bone stock, you did 16.0 at 86 mph in your beloved 1.8T in the 1/4. Jeff (allmotor8v is his new SN, I believe) did 15.9 at 86.9 mph in a slightly modified 2.0L. Your point is?
Recently, I had a bit of a "spirited" driving session with a nice new Jetta GLI, which has a bit more HP than my 2.0L, and more than the allmighty 1.8T. Granted, it's about 800lbs heavier than my car.....I didn't get dropped in my "little" 2.0L. [HR][/HR]​


[Modified by Golf 2 Slow GLS, 12:50 PM 12-4-2002]
 
#21 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)

quote:[HR][/HR]I have an MK4. My car is an auto. With my car slightly modded I ran a 14.5. My point is that the 1.8t is way way way faster than the 2.0!
And the new 200 hp V6 is not all it is cracked up to be. Stock it only makes about 6-7 hp more than the 1.8t at the wheels. Stock vs stock the 1.8t is faster according to VW's web page. Chipped the 1.8t is a good amount faster. So while the 200hp VR6 may make more power than my eninge did stock, now I make more power.
And unless you car weighs 2300 lbs..... you car is not 800 lbs less than a GLI.[HR][/HR]​
Ok....time for math class. My car is 2,400lbs (and yes, I currently have my interior removed). MK4 GLI is about 3,200lbs. Let's see....last time I checked, 3200-2400=800. Off the line, she probably would've blown my doors off, because my car sucks off the line - however, once past around 45-55mph, then it'll move....which is when she tried dropping me.
I'm not debating that your precious 1.8T is slow - a mid 14's quarter is respectable, even with an automatic. Do the turbo upgrade, and then it'll be well into the 13's. One thing I noticed that you MK4 1.8T guys like to do is quote crank HP, instead of wheel HP. And the other side of the coin is....MK3's are a lot lighter than MK4's. For every 100lb loss, it's like gaining 5HP. So, technically speaking, I "gained" 40HP on the GLI, all things being equal. Not bad.
Am I a 1.8T hater? Not at all. In fact, that will be the next engine I get. I am kinda bummed that it'll most likely be in the form of an MK4 or MK5, but I just don't want to go through the hassle of putting it in my current Jetta. But then again, time will tell with that. I guess I could always rip apart an MK4 to remove some weight, but I like the interiors too much in them to do that, so we'll see.....not to mention it won't happen for several years down the road. The thing I can't stand is when people come into our forum with their "high and mighty" VR6's or 1.8T's, and start bashing the 2.0. The 2.0 is not a bad engine...you just have to know how to use it, and how to get the power out of it.
 
#23 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (evoeone)

quote:[HR][/HR]161whp i did 15.104 @ 94.93, that was like my fourth runs ever T'ed, so i should be hitting some 14's with practice and a 2.2 60ft[HR][/HR]​
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Wait 'till the SDS
 
#24 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (VW97Jetta)

First off my math is fine if you look at the number I used. If you car is 2400 lbs, that is very light! You did a nice job of making it lighter than stock.
I thought the GLI was closer to 3100 lbs but I am not going to argue over 100 lbs.
I don't feel that the 2.0 is a good engine... but like anything if you put money into it, you can make it quick. That is just my opinion. You don't have to like it but that is how I feel.
I do think the MK4s need to go on a diet.

quote:[HR][/HR]
Ok....time for math class. My car is 2,400lbs (and yes, I currently have my interior removed). MK4 GLI is about 3,200lbs. Let's see....last time I checked, 3200-2400=800. Off the line, she probably would've blown my doors off, because my car sucks off the line - however, once past around 45-55mph, then it'll move....which is when she tried dropping me.
I'm not debating that your precious 1.8T is slow - a mid 14's quarter is respectable, even with an automatic. Do the turbo upgrade, and then it'll be well into the 13's. One thing I noticed that you MK4 1.8T guys like to do is quote crank HP, instead of wheel HP. And the other side of the coin is....MK3's are a lot lighter than MK4's. For every 100lb loss, it's like gaining 5HP. So, technically speaking, I "gained" 40HP on the GLI, all things being equal. Not bad.
Am I a 1.8T hater? Not at all. In fact, that will be the next engine I get. I am kinda bummed that it'll most likely be in the form of an MK4 or MK5, but I just don't want to go through the hassle of putting it in my current Jetta. But then again, time will tell with that. I guess I could always rip apart an MK4 to remove some weight, but I like the interiors too much in them to do that, so we'll see.....not to mention it won't happen for several years down the road. The thing I can't stand is when people come into our forum with their "high and mighty" VR6's or 1.8T's, and start bashing the 2.0. The 2.0 is not a bad engine...you just have to know how to use it, and how to get the power out of it. [HR][/HR]​
 
#25 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (Golf 2 Slow GLS)

Yep....that was the plan (lightening my car). The only mods I have left are the "big dollar" ones in regards to my engine, so I figured I'd try to lighten it up a bit to make it a little quicker.
The 2.0 had the potentional to be a great engine out of the box - however, there's a lot of "if only's" that follow that statement....too bad VW wasn't going after a more "performance-oriented" stance with that engine. Again...."if they did this", and "if they did that"....is all well and good, but unfortunately we have to do lots of work on our ends to wring the most out of 'em. I look at it as a challenge.
What I REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY wish VW would do is make a nice lightweight (2,200 to 2,300lb), REAR wheel drive car, with two engine options: a 20v 2.1L Turbo 4, or a 30v 3.2L VR6. Priced right, they would sell like friggin' hotcakes (I wish someone would clue VW into this
). Imagine having M3 performance for say, $28-32k? And it wouldn't really take much away from M3 sales, because the TYPICAL M3 buyer isn't going to "lower" himself to a VW.

Let's start a petition....



[Modified by VW97Jetta, 8:21 AM 12-5-2002]
 
#26 ·
Re: How light would a 2.0 have to be to "feel" like a 1.8t? (VW97Jetta)

quote:[HR][/HR] What I REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY wish VW would do is make a nice lightweight (2,200 to 2,300lb), REAR wheel drive car, with two engine options: a 20v 2.1L Turbo 4, or a 30v 3.2L VR6. Priced right, they would sell like friggin' hotcakes (I wish someone would clue VW into this
). Imagine having M3 performance for say, $28-32k? And it wouldn't really take much away from M3 sales, because the TYPICAL M3 buyer isn't going to "lower" himself to a VW.
[HR][/HR]​
never happen, that ratio of modders to average mommy and daddy drivers would be about 1 texewr per 20 drivers ( noraml ones)
 
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