[sporter]

ok here's the setup:

2.0, stock compression, T3 turbo, ATP stage II chip, 30# injectors, adj cam gear, TT 260/268 cam. Most likely 7lbs to start with.
I'll most likely be putting the car together next week, and had a few final tuning questions:
what should my a/f be "ideally"? I've heard you guys throw around 12:1, 11:1, etc. so whats the bottom line on this? Since my chip is obviously not programmable, could I possible help a lean condition by installing slightly larger injectors? (ie 31, 32#)
what about timing? Stock timing I believe is 6deg. BTC, does this hold true for tubo engines as well? I dont want the knock sensor messing me up too bad.
and what about cam timing? with the TT cam gear, do I want to advance as much as possible before engaging the knock sensor? or at what setting have you guys made the most power?
also any other last minute info you guys have for me?
tia

 

[speed51133]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (sporter)

your cam gear has nothing to do with engine knock.
it does not affect your ignition timing. it affects CAM timing.

 

[flyjetta]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (speed51133)

Is that the ATP kit? Where did you get it? How much did it cost?

 

[sporter]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (sporter)

Speed-
yeah ok i spaced for a sec, sorry. Indeed it's just for the cam timing... but how should I adjust it for the best power on my setup?
Also i forgot to mention it will be equipped with a FMIC.
fly-
I only bought some misc parts from atp, I'm building the kit myself... so far just the turbo stuff has cost me around $700 (incl turbo, manifold, IC, chip, yadda yadda yadda)
any info would be greatly appreciated!

 

[VWturbo2Ltr]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (sporter)

Quote:
2.0, stock compression, T3 turbo, ATP stage II chip, 30# injectors, adj cam gear, TT 260/268 cam. Most likely 7lbs to start with.
1st are you putting a remapped chip in your ECU for running boost?
2nd your ECU can't controll 30lbs injectors unless you are getting the ATP chip for running that big of an injector
3rd which TT cam are you getting the 260 or the 268, the 260 or G-grind is about as big as you want to go under forced induction
it has been a while since i have been at the dyno but i want to say your A/F should be as close to 11:1, 12:1 seams a bit lean to me
hope this helps

 

[sporter]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (VWturbo2Ltr)

vwturbo2lr-
yeah thanks for the input! I did mention in my first post that I will be running an ATP stage II chip for the #30 injectors... so i think I have everything covered on that front.
and RE: the cam... its a TT 268/260 asymetrical cam. TT says its the best FI (and only) cam they have.
I guess I'm really curious about timing still... should I stay with the stock 6deg BTC? or what? and cam timing is still a mystery to me... I know it moves the powerband, but are there any implications with this for a boosted motor?

 

[VWturbo2Ltr]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (sporter)

the timing is done through your ECU and when ATP sends you the chip it will change your stock ignition timing to a more desirable setting for running boost
if you have a adj. cam gear then i think it should be set around -2 or -3 i cant remember...any how you will want to hit the dyno to get teh most out of it


[Modified by VWturbo2Ltr, 5:04 AM 11-30-2001]

 

[troze1200]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (sporter)

First of all, get rid of the stoichiometer and get an EGT.
EGT EGT EGT
I cannot say enough how important this one gauge is. Get teh car on a dyno, and calculate air/fuel. You should have bought the cartec FMU, and you can adjust there. Let teh dyno and air/fuel readings tell you where to put the spark.
Dyno saves lives.

 

[VW GLI Turbo]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (troze1200)

quote:[HR][/HR]First of all, get rid of the stoichiometer and get an EGT.
EGT EGT EGT
I cannot say enough how important this one gauge is.
Dyno saves lives. [HR][/HR]​

I'd say get both. A/F meters are just fine but an EGT wouldn't hurt.

 

[flyjetta]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (VW GLI Turbo)

What's an EGT?

 

[97VenomGTI]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (flyjetta)

quote:[HR][/HR]What's an EGT?[HR][/HR]​

Exhaust Gauge Temperature.

 

[Go Go Green Golf]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (97VenomGTI)

quote:[HR][/HR]What's an EGT?
Exhaust Gauge Temperature.

[HR][/HR]​

Wow I thought it was 'Extra Gargantuian Testicles'

Yeah both the A/F and EGT have a part to play in tuning a F/I motor both are best working together. The Blinky Light meters out there like Cyberdyne, Autometer, and EFI's Dual Meter are perfectly accurate at reading the voltage from the O2 sensor and lighting up the proper LED. The problem with them is when relying on them for full throttle tuning is that the range is not fine enough. There is a huge performance difference between .90v and .96v. Both of those voltages will light up the top most LED on these gauges. The LED based gauges do have their purpose in tuning closed loop/part throttle at a glance. For more accuracy, a digital volt meter is much better. For the best of both worlds, use the digital A/F Ratio meter from JumpTronix. http://www.jumptronix.com/
Bottom line is tuning with is fine with your own O2 and multi-meter but the numbers you are reading really have no relationship to anyone else's numbers to within .02v.

High EGTs and Knock
If you are running too lean for the boost and octane you have in the tank, you will get knock or pre-ignition. The knock sensor bolted to the engine block will pick up this "pinging" sound long before you can hear it inside the car. When under higher boost, there is almost always small amounts of knock. At these small amounts of knock the ECU will continue to advance timing normally. At mid knock levels the ECU will hold timing and if it gets too high or rises quickly, the ECU will begin to retard timing if not pull it all the way back to zero. You can hear the exhaust note change when the timing goes away. It will turn deeper , almost rumbly sounding. When the timing is retarded, the ignition process happens so late that the flame front shoots out the exhaust port when the exhaust valve opens and blows still expanding, really hot gas directly onto the EGT probe. So internally the pistons are barely warm, but the exhaust valves, manifold and turbo get real hot. This is the reason I wouldn't recommend not running EGTs higher than 900C or 1550-1600F. That is the point that timing retard is usually driving the EGTs up. Not that immediate damage is being done, it is just that you are no longer making additional power above that temperature and there is no benefit to running there.



[Modified by Go Go Green Golf, 1:39 PM 12-3-2001]

 

[catfishez]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (Go Go Green Golf)

well put green golf.

 

[vento 95 GL]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (catfishez)

ok so when you are running lean, the egt's go up right?? the opposite occurs when you are running rich which is better for the engine right??
Please tell me if I'm wrong. I'm gathering info for my install next spring!!
So when you have a high egt, what do you do to reduce the temperature.

 

[turboit]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (vento 95 GL)

quote:[HR][/HR]ok so when you are running lean, the egt's go up right?? the opposite occurs when you are running rich which is better for the engine right??
Please tell me if I'm wrong. I'm gathering info for my install next spring!!
So when you have a high egt, what do you do to reduce the temperature.[HR][/HR]​

neither running too rich or too lean is good, but it is better to run rich than lean. I too lean condition can ruin you cat (if you have one). And running too lean as Go Go put it can cause detonation, which is very bad!
Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

 

[cnbrown]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (vento 95 GL)

quote:[HR][/HR]ok so when you are running lean, the egt's go up right?? the opposite occurs when you are running rich which is better for the engine right??
Please tell me if I'm wrong. I'm gathering info for my install next spring!!
So when you have a high egt, what do you do to reduce the temperature.[HR][/HR]​

I think that they are saying that the EGT is just another way to monitor your A/F ratio...a lean mixture will run HOT, yes, so the ET should be pretty high...

 

[vento 95 GL]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (turboit)

quote:[HR][/HR]
neither running too rich or too lean is good, but it is better to run rich than lean. I too lean condition can ruin you cat (if you have one). And running too lean as Go Go put it can cause detonation, which is very bad!
Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​

Ok I understood that, but what do I do to cure the problem?? Is a Dyno session the only way to tune your engine or you can do it yourself in a isolated road???

 

[vento 95 GL]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (vento 95 GL)

ttt

 

[vwdriver92]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (speed51133)

yeah I caught that too about the cam timming and knock, that is ignition timing, I would start it at stock and then advanve it little by little till knock is heard or till the knock sensor kicks in

 

[vwdriver92]

Re: how should I tune my 2.0T once installed? (vento 95 GL)

to reduce the temp you half to advance timing but as it says if knock accurs it will retard the timing closer to tdc and if not exactly TDC and at that point the exhaust valve opens and that all that burning hot gases cause that egt to rise basically telling you that ok the timing kick back because of to little octane or to little fuel I better back off before my pistons melt.
I have the jumptronix and it is great but I feel at a quick glance it is tougher to read than a blicky stlye, but when not at WOT it is easier than the blinky stlye, either way they both do what tell are supposed to do it is just what you rather have but the blicky stlye should not be used alone because of the .91 to .96v will read on the same LED so I recommend using a egt along with it but if you just want a A/F meter go with the jumptronix and the final cost will be lower that the A/F meter and a egt combined
also blinky's don't work with widebands like the 1.8ts