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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Topic says it all, what changes would you make to any of the following: NASCAR, CART, IRL, Trans-Am, ALMS, Grand-Am, NHRA and IHRA drag racing, etc?
I'll think about my answers and post in a little while. Would you leave any the same? Change them all, ban them all (Congress came close to banning all motorsports in the mid 50s, Bill France aka NASCAR saved it all).
J.
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Crazyquik)

I think as long as people in America don't have the passion for motorsports like people in Europe do, we will be limited to big sponsors and big events. If you look at a present day nascar race you will see that there are hordes or fans that would fit into the blue collar part of society. These people are the ones who make up the bulk of the hardcore fans who go to the races because they enjoy the competetive aspect of a Nascar race. Then you have the upperclass fans who sit in box seats and get invited to driver meetings. It's like a microcosm of American society.
What I'm trying to say is...until all people enjoy motorsports for more or less the same basic reasons, there isn't going to be much advancement of the sports for the true fans, only for large corporate sponsors. Take a look at CART...that series turned into a huge mess because it went from being about a racing series to making money for shareholders. It fell victim to the grasp of business and greed.
If American Motorsports are to survive, in the sense that they will still be exciting and fun to watch/participate in, they need to keep their unique appeal and not turn into just another way to turn a profit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (pnkthnurma)

Hmm, that reminds me of a question I've long had about F1 races. At almost every Winston Cup race, they tell the purse (how much total money will be given away) and also tell how much the winner will get. Do F1 drivers get any money for winning say the Grand Prix of France, or do they just get a salary from the team? You hear the Schumacher is signed for a salary of XX million dollars this year, will he get winnings as well? I know GP racing started mainly as rich guys racing for the glory and the pride, not so much the money.
J.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Crazyquik)

Hmm, I thought they'd be a lot more responces to this thread. With all the motorsports fans in this forum, and all the people who are seem to be anti-NASCAR, I at least thought a few people would have interesting ideas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (GreenWeenie)

Finally someone else replies http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
One thing for NASCAR, I think the cars, should actually at least ya know, look like the real freakin car!!!!!!!!! Ford has had a rule change, and thier about to get another, to change the body slightly to make it better or something
NASCAR, in my opinion, should say look, in 200_ the race cars will have to meet the exact same template as the street car they're based on. I think the street car should have the same layout as the race car. If you dont build a rwd midsize car, I dont guess you can race. If you only build a 4 door midsize rwd car, I guess you'll have to race that. You can build anything you want, but race what you build. I dont really like that they use carbs, but I dont mind it either. They need to get rid of the stupid restrictor plates though. Either give the cars a ton of aerodynamic drag to slow them down, or make them run a smaller displacement for the superspeedways.
In fact, while we're rewriting the rules, make them run a production based motor. Chevrolet would run the LS1/6 instead of the SB2, Ford would run, um, a modular engine I guess, and Dodge would have to run a motor off thier pickup truck line I guess. Again, build what you want, but race what you build.
I like the new Trans-Am rules, with the fender flares and new body rules.
What about open wheel cars? Good question. Starting out the europeans won almost all the Indy 500s. Then about the mid 20s (I guess) Americans started winning it again. Untill the 70s Indy was the thing. In the 70s more and more "ferriners" started racing and winning, and America stopped caring about Indy. 30 years ago it took nearly 2 hours to get from parking to the Speedway, no you can get there in 15 minutes because no one really cares, and its a dam shame... What happened? I dont know, but the CART/IRL split isn't helping things one bit.
All big league racing should be on gasoline. Maybe even say 98 octane or less. That would be another way to restrict speed, octane limits.
I'm sure I can think of some other things I'd change <grumble grumble>
J.
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Crazyquik)

I have something of an 8-year plan for NASCAR...
1. Dismantle ISC. I feel this is NASCAR's biggest Achilles heel. The corporation owns nearly all the tracks and thus makes insane amounts of money from ticket sales, as it can set ticket prices to whichever level it likes. ISC is the reason North Wilkesboro was stripped of its Cup races, NHIS got a second Cup date (it's not a bad track, but NASCAR has more than enough double dates as it is), and courses like Chicagoland and Kansas came to fruition. Enough is freaking enough.
2. Production-based cars. I'm talking something similar to Australian Touring Car Series; the race cars must be based on a rear-drive, V8 powered, 2-door production coupe. NASCAR stayed true to this formula until the '80s, when the Big Three started the big switch to front-drive. Despite the rantings of a few deluded extremists on these and some other forums, NASCAR fans know that today's stock cars have damn near nothing in common with roadgoing domestic midsize cars. Go to any local short track and you'll see that most of the stock cars with any production roots running are pre-GM-10 Olds Cutlasses, Chevy Impalas and Monte Carlos, and Ford Thunderbirds that have had so many dents hammered out of their bodyword over the last decade that they look like Pepsi cans that have spent the last couple years lying on I-94. I would demand that the basis for any NASCAR race car be a rear-drive, 4-or-5 passenger coupe with V8 power. Furthermore, each manufacturer would be required to build at least 1,000 homologation specials with the exact displacement (358 ci, 5867cc) as the race car. Being production-based, the cars would be allowed to have electronic engine management, ignition, and fuel injection; however, antilock brakes and any sort of electronic traction control would be strictly verboten. 6-speed manuals would be the order of the day, as would limited slip differentials (though I doubt the Detroit Lockers currently used on Cup cars would be very streetable, regular limited slip diffs would be specced for both racers and homolgations). The cars would have stripped interiors with full roll cage and racing seat + belts, though the stock dashboard would be kept rather than the fabricated dash current stock cars use. Windows would be Lexan, and no door windows would be used.
3. More road racing. I believe NASCAR is squandering a great opportunity to expand its focus by sticking to these damnable cookie-cutter ovals that ISC specifies (Kansas, Chicagoland, et al) instead of reaching out to the sports car crowd. Road Atlanta would be a good Cup track, in my estimation; twisty, slowish section for the first few turns, then a loooong, undulating backstretch that would allow the cars to stretch their legs, plus a rather fast final turn onto the front straightaway. Heck, as boring as the Homestead race last fall was, I'd probably be inclined to turn them loose on the roval section of that circuit as well (unlike the oval, it has actual passing zones
).
4. No more provisionals. All 43 positions will be determined on time. 'Nuff said.
5. The only way to increase action on the restrictor plate tracks is to make drafting much less relevant. Reducing downforce enough to make them at least lift from the accelerator for turns might be one way, though I'm not sure of any others. Clemson University is gearing up to build a wind tunnel south of here, in Greenville, that NASCAR will use; the effect this will have may play a pivotal role in stock car racing's future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Apollo-Soyuz 1975)

Ever been to North Wilksboro? I was there the day it sold. Now its like a ghost town kinda, a glimpse into the past, the old billboards still up, grass growing thru the track, etc.
I dont think your lexan windowed homologation specials would sell too well

Something that ARCA does right is they race on short tracks (some very short), super speedways like Daytona, road courses and dirt ovals
I would have loved to see the top stars of Winston Cup 2 years ago race on a small dirt oval. I think Earnhardt would have won though, as he had a lot of dirt expirence and it would have fit his style.
What about Grand-Am/ALMS? Should they merge or what?
J.
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Crazyquik)

I agree...NASCAR needs to become more like the BTCC or DTM or other motorsports like that. I'm a young one, and I look at pics of old NASCAR stock cars, and they well, actually looked stock. You could really tell which car it was based off of. Now, you have to look at the headlight stickers to realize which car it is. And NASCAR definetly needs to run more road courses...of all those hundreds of NASCAR races on TV, the only one I watched was the one where they ran on a road course last year (forgot where, when, etc). That was pretty cool seeing them do something they usually don't do. Since, NASCAR is really the only major racing circuit watched in America, I think we need to start there...but we definetly need to get more ALMS and stuff that is so popular in Europe. Everytime a ALMS race is on NBC on sunday afternoon, I'll watch it. But, I'm not sure there's a big enough market for it. I don't know many things, but NASCAR definetly needs to run more than ovals in cars that have no resememblance to any of the cars the manufacturers sell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (AndrewT)

DTM cars are almost as unlike the street cars as NASCAR. Scratch built race cars, Audi TTs with front mounted V8s and rwd?? They sure are pretty though

BTCC are much more like the production car, even if they do use 6 spd sequential trannies.
Up untill about '62 or '63, almost everything on a stock car had a manufacture production number on it. Even into the late 70s they were stock based, kinda. Buy a car, strip it out, heavily modify everything you didn't remove but at least it was stock based. They race 2 road courses, Watkins Glen and Sears Point.
J.
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Crazyquik)

quote:[HR][/HR]What about Grand-Am/ALMS? Should they merge or what?
J.
[HR][/HR]​
Depends on what you want as far as sportscar racing in the US.


[Modified by 130_R, 12:20 AM 2-12-2002]
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Apollo-Soyuz 1975)

I TOTALLY agree with the NASCAR comments. They are so far removed from a real car, they might as well be openwheel racers. It needs to go back to its production car based roots, let foreign manufacturers in, but only V8, RWD cars should be elligible (I guess that means a Lexus LS430 would be okay
), and for Pete's sake, ditch most (but not all) of the ovals!
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Crazyquik)

quote:[HR][/HR]I dont think your lexan windowed homologation specials would sell too well
[HR][/HR]​
Oops! I meant to type that only the racers would have Lexan windows (breakage, and all); the street hologations woul have regular windows (and door windows too, obviously). The point of having homologations would be that it'd be easier for upstarts to modify those into full-fledged race cars.
On an OT note, a dirt road course sounds like insane fun to me for some reason.
(I don't mean rallycross, just... like Laguna Seca, but smooth red clay instead of pavement
)
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Crazyquik)

eliminate NASCAR
eliminate that bulls#it sprint car crap
add WRC
add a GT series
make CART more popular/keep it alive
make ALMS more popular
keep AutoX as-is


[Modified by fastfour, 10:38 PM 2-11-2002]
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (fastfour)

I like American motorsports the way it is right now.
NASCAR is great because the amount of money the American automakers put into NASCAR yield very few dividends in actual production cars designed for the street.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (TabulaRasa)

We're getting a WRC event here aren't we? I've at least heard rumors like that.
fastfour, how would you make CART and ALMS more popular? What would you change?
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Crazyquik)

We HAD pro rallye here. not enough people want to brave teh elements to go watch it in person. We HAVE road racing, and Touring cars, as well as showroom stock. It's hard to watch from the stands, and in person you don't get to see much of the racing.
The racing you want is already here. When was the last time you went to one in person?
Oval tracks fit in county fairs, and are easy to set up, thus it's easy and cheap to create thousands of small farm tracks to get talent from. Even a small road course takes up too much real estate. Small ovals are also easy to have spectators see the action, so those small venue owners can afford to be in business. Try and support a road race course on that budget. Won't happen. It costs money to HAVE a track, so the track needs to MAKE money to stay around. Yes, it's all about the money, and if there's no money, there's no racing. Thats why NASCAR has ovals, and why dirt track ovals are the chosen venue to work from.
NASCAR is not just about the cars, either. It's about the drivers and the fans. NACAR drivers are more accessable to fans than, say, F1 drivers are.
Yes, tehre are things wrong with American motorsport, but there is a lot that is right about it, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Chris V)

The more I think about it, the more I'd try and get rid of concrete walls as well. Go with moveable tire barriers as patented by Smokey Yunick.
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Apollo-Soyuz 1975)

quote:[HR][/HR] Road Atlanta would be a good Cup track, in my estimation; twisty, slowish section for the first few turns, then a loooong, undulating backstretch that would allow the cars to stretch their legs, plus a rather fast final turn onto the front straightaway. [HR][/HR]​

I shudder to think what NASCAR would be like at Road Atlanta. The first 6 turns are not slow. Turn one is faster than turn 13, turns two through 5 ( the esses) are brutal, the GT cars average 100 mph through there. The only slow turns on the whole track are 7 and the chicane. Would be kinda cool to just see it once though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Chris V)

quote:[HR][/HR]NASCAR is not just about the cars, either. It's about the drivers and the fans. NACAR drivers are more accessable to fans than, say, F1 drivers are.[HR][/HR]​
NASCAR driver are more accesible than F1 drivers, but they are not as acessible as ALMS or SCWC drivers. NASCAR has become fairly closed to the casual fan as the amountof corporate cponsorship has risen.
The ills in American motorsport are the split bodie in both Sportscars and Indy cars. As soon as the IRL and CART unify, NASCAR's grip on American motorsports will become less and less tight. The Indy 500 is still the biggest race in the world. Also when the G/A and ALMS rules are done panning out in 2004, there will be growth there also.
You must remember that Speed Channel, ALMS, G/A are all very new series. None are even 5 years old yet, and are still building a fan base. F1 has returned to America and has sent shock waves throgh the NASCAR and motorsport community in the US. NASCAR is not the only game in town for big time sponsorship as has been the case for the last 5 years. The american motorsports scene has been in such a state of flux over the last two years that it is very hard to analyze anything really. You don't count cargo when the ship is riding out the storm
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Re: How would you change mainstream American motorsports (Crazyquik)

quote:[HR][/HR]Topic says it all, what changes would you make to any of the following: NASCAR, CART, IRL, Trans-Am, ALMS, Grand-Am, NHRA and IHRA drag racing, etc? [HR][/HR]​
I'd ban race courses that don't have right-hand turns in them. I'd require a literacy test for the spectators and proof that they're not married to their 2nd cousins.
 
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