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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)


The road been long.. the wait felt even longer, but the results on the street and dyno made it all worth while! HPA's 20th turbo kits are starting to ship and the reviews are coming in!

This program's market release was delayed as we awaited the ill fated BW EFR turbo. 6 months late and completely re-tooled around Garrett's bullet proof GT35RS cartridge, our Hybrid GT35 based turbine retains our proprietary integrated diverter valve, features a new 3" Vband waste gate housing and when married to our new integrated intake manifold, retuned exhaust manifold and radius downpipe, throttle response from this monster turbo kit is simply a game changer!

We are proud to announce that all serialized production has been sold, but due to the popularity
of this all in one package, HPA is extending the signature 20th logo through year end sales




20th Edition Turbo Kit Specifications: MK4-MK5

* Liquid cooled integrated short runner intake manifold
* After cooler package for integrated intake air to water intercooler
* Cast exhaust manifold, with external Oxygen sensors
* Hybrid GT35 Ball Bearing based turbo-w/integrated diverter and waste gate valve
* Stainless Steel Down Pipes (MK4 single 70mm, MK5 dual 55mm)
* Stainless Steel Turbo assembly Heatshield
* Custom wrapped Silicone piping with stainless steel clamps
* Head spacer plate to lower compression * Head gaskets and Head Bolts
* 500ml high flow fuel injectors
* 4.0B return fuel system(MK5 only)
* 920CFM K&N air filter
* Braided Stainless Steel Oil Feed Line
* Oil Return lines
* Performance ECU upgrade


390+ HP (Crank) 390+ftlbs TQ @ 1.1bar / 92us Octane

** DSG stage 3 file required on OEM clutches $9,999 USD





Please visit our Web for full details, dyno graphs and expansion options.

http://www.hpamotorsport.com/turbos.htm

Our contact our sales team 9-5pst Mon-Fri.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

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2008 R32 CW Track Monster
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
According to HPA, the DSG Stage 3 file will cost $1995. So, $9,999 + $1995 = $11994. Correct? :confused:
The factory DSG configuration is not a smart set up for big power as it is programmed for overdrive mode. You hit 6th gear by 35mph and to accelerate with a turbo car, the kick down would beat the gearbox and the lengthy pause created by inappropriate gear selection will eat the clutches..

HPA always offers a bundle price structure when building a turbo car. But like the Mk4, where most install an performance clutch for this huge power bump, the MK5 will need the clutch maps re configured and only stage 3 and better offer this for D and S mode.
 

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HPA always offers a bundle price structure when building a turbo car. But like the Mk4, where most install an performance clutch for this huge power bump, the MK5 will need the clutch maps re configured and only stage 3 and better offer this for D and S mode.
Right. But, the point to my previous post was that: If DSG Stage 3 flash is required for the 5 body, then the price is not $9,999. It's $9,999 + the additional $1995 for the required Stage3 flash. I'm not saying you're false advertising, but the idea of the package $9999 is for MKV is inaccurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Right. But, the point to my previous post was that: If DSG Stage 3 flash is required for the 5 body, then the price is not $9,999. It's $9,999 + the additional $1995 for the required Stage3 flash. I'm not saying you're false advertising, but the idea of the package $9999 is for MKV is inaccurate.
No worries...

at this stage, many that have grabbed a kit already had a stage 2 or better file and then it is just a small upgrade charge for them..

Thankfully the R's brakes are up to the task for the 400hp...:laugh:
 

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Good stuff guys, as usual I have questions. Being a FT425 owner, and probably logging more miles than all the FT425's in the US that are on the forums, here goes...

20th Edition Turbo Kit Specifications: MK4-MK5

* Liquid cooled integrated short runner intake manifold
* After cooler package for integrated intake air to water intercooler
* Cast exhaust manifold, with external Oxygen sensors
* Hybrid GT35 Ball Bearing based turbo-w/integrated diverter and waste gate valve
* Stainless Steel Down Pipes (MK4 single 70mm, MK5 dual 55mm)
* Stainless Steel Turbo assembly Heatshield
* Custom wrapped Silicone piping with stainless steel clamps
* Head spacer plate to lower compression * Head gaskets and Head Bolts
* 500ml high flow fuel injectors
* 4.0B return fuel system(MK5 only)
* 920CFM K&N air filter
* Braided Stainless Steel Oil Feed Line
* Oil Return lines
* Performance ECU upgrade


390+ HP (Crank) 390+ftlbs TQ @ 1.1bar / 92us Octane

** DSG stage 3 file required on OEM clutches $9,999 USD
The FT425 was running a GT30 running 12.5PSI (0.89BAR), this kit is running a larger turbo charger, with more boost, 15.4PSI, yet the power numbers as advertised are very similar. Just 20 more ftlbs. That doesn't seem right. Other than that the specifications of the kit, see below, look very similar.

With that being said, when can we expect a dyno chart of this kit in base trim to see how it compares with the FT425? There hasn't been a dyno plot yet you're stating what the power numbers are, so lets see them! As I know most people on this forum don't have 20-30k to replicate the MK5 that you did the build thread on.

FT425(R) Specifications (From HPA's Website http://www.hpamotorsport.com/ft425.htm)

FT425 Specifications: MK4-MK5

• HGP R30 / Garrett GT30 Ball Bearing based hybrid turbo
• Cast exhaust manifold, flow-benched with external Oxygen sensors
• Stainless Steel Downpipes
• Stainless Steel Exhaust Manifold Heat Shield
• CVP Short runner cast intake manifold*
• Liquid cooled air to water intercooler package
• Custom wrapped Silicone piping with stainless steel clamps
• 500ml high flow fuel injectors
• 920CFM K&N air filter
• Head spacer plate to lower compression
• Braided Stainless Steel Oil Feed Line
• Oil Return lines
• Water inlet and return lines
• Performance ECU upgrade


5 have been mk4's, rest Mk5 and Gen 2 TT's...we have about 8 cars at the shop at this time for installation....busy dash to Winter break!
Are you going to post up all the builds with dyno plots, assuming the onwers will allow it? I'm sure we'd all love to see it. And if there have been a vast majority of MK5's lets see some base dyno charts to see what the kit in base trims puts down.

Isn't this a MK5? They both look like it, anyway, I copied the text for those of us on mobile that don't want to deal with a PDF.

November 6th, 2011
Went to the strip Friday night with the R32 20th under the hood, on street tires and VP108 ran 12.4et
@116mph. On race tires I know it will get in the 11's…Turned a few heads and lots of people asking
questions about the build. Two for sure were a Z06 and an SS Camaro owner that saw all tail light from the
R. At the end of the night I ended up against a V12 twin turbo AMG Mercedes...VP108, DSG, launch
control, race tires, and twice the number of cylinders...Pulled me off the line but when my torque hit in
second gear he did not run away from me.
Regards,
Mark V.


With a drift box you said you ran a 12.6 QTR mile with my car, this run is quite similar. What are the specs of the build?

November 7th, 2011
The 2008 VW R32 version of the VW Golf is a unique combination of mechanical options that makes for a
very well balanced, capable fun driving experience. The Haldex all wheel drive, 6 speed DSG transmission
and 3.2L V6 engine provide the underpinnings for a true performance car with all the amities of a luxury,
yet economical car. HPA of Canada has parlayed that robust foundation into a true super car by providing
several levels of upgrades; the latest addition is their 20th anniversary turbocharged option. This OEM
quality installation integrates engine and optional transmission and differential control to provide a smooth
docile driver when wanted and a strong accelerating quick shifting safe driving rush when you put your
foot into the throttle. With power upgrades to more than double the stock offering, you can run 0-60 times
in the low 3 second range without any wheel spin, turn corners like you are on rails, stop on a dime, all
while going out to pick up the groceries. You will look for every reason to take this HPA creation out for a
spin. No other modified vehicle I have driven has the ability to be comfortably driven, slowly, cheaply,
quietly and respectfully in all weather conditions yet always letting you know that it has the heart to
provide whatever greater level of performance you may want. That is what makes the HPA/R32 truly
something special. The transformation is nothing short of spectacular to drive!
Sincerely,
Dennis E.


What are the specifications of these cars?

I LOL'ed the diff in approach 'tween the Mk5 and Mk4 owners. The Mk4 guy is going to have waaaay more fun I'm guessing... :beer::beer::thumbup:
Ha.. I'd disagree, the DSG shifting with the turbo is something you have to experience yourself.

According to HPA, the DSG Stage 3 file will cost $1995. So, $9,999 + $1995 = $11994. Correct? :confused:
Yes, the kit is a 12k dollar kit plus install for the MK5. Also in some other threads I posted up true cost of ownership. And always have a few grand in the bank for when something goes boom, it's not if, it's when.

The factory DSG configuration is not a smart set up for big power as it is programmed for overdrive mode. You hit 6th gear by 35mph and to accelerate with a turbo car, the kick down would beat the gearbox and the lengthy pause created by inappropriate gear selection will eat the clutches..

HPA always offers a bundle price structure when building a turbo car. But like the Mk4, where most install an performance clutch for this huge power bump, the MK5 will need the clutch maps re configured and only stage 3 and better offer this for D and S mode.
You released my car with the Stage2 DSG software that did still go into 6th gear at 35mph. Now you're saying it's not smart. I'm glad you're saying this, but also disappointed as you said the Stage2 was fine at the time. I will say your Stage3 software is quite a bit better, but this goes completely against what you sold me. I also have to wonder, what damage did this do to my gearbox?!?

Right. But, the point to my previous post was that: If DSG Stage 3 flash is required for the 5 body, then the price is not $9,999. It's $9,999 + the additional $1995 for the required Stage3 flash. I'm not saying you're false advertising, but the idea of the package $9999 is for MKV is inaccurate.
x10000000000000000000000000

Go read my posts, I've been trying to point out the real cost of this kit and ownership. When there is a problem, it will be at least $1000 bucks, a turbo swap is that cost or if it's on the intake side the nose of the car is coming off, that's $1000 bucks. I have the invoices from HPA with the time, if you aren't prepped for that it could cause some serious problems. I would hate to see something scrape up 16-17k for the kit (The out the door cost), have something go boom and not have the money for it.

at this stage, many that have grabbed a kit already had a stage 2 or better file and then it is just a small upgrade charge for them..
Or just be like what you recommended for me at the beginning, run the Stage2 software, it has the higher torque limit.

Thankfully the R's brakes are up to the task for the 400hp...:laugh:
Not even close. They work, but I wouldn't recommend them. After Fastivus I had to have you turn the rotors to get the metallic deposits off of them from the HP+ pads and pushing the brakes too hard.

Doesn't seem like a bad price. If I had $10k kicking around, I know which direction I'd want it going. :beer:
Add 2k for DSG software and install...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
William,

hope you are enjoying HK. I can assure you of the 300+ FT owners, you have logged the most miles in the forums :laugh:. That said, we have so many kits now at 80-100,000miles, it will be a while for you to catch up to the real world mileage group :popcorn:

As for DSG stage 2 vs 3…William, you need not be disappointed…go back three years ago when the cars and CLUTCHES were NEW, stage 2 offered the shift and TQ points sufficient to get into this program…Most opted for the bigger stage 3 as we later upgraded you too…today, with 40,000k on the cars, stage three is needed to pressurize the clutches under D,S and m modes…

Triple any cars HP you need to invest into the hardware. The turbo “KIT” for $9,999 offers you a one stop do it your self program that is packed full of engineered engine specific hardware…

No 99cent off-shore cone filter…no OEM or hand fabricated intake..no off the shelf generic Chinese exhaust manifold without O2 placement and no over the top dyno queen want to be turbo.

The 20th, much like its earlier generations is well thought out, balanced and when installed will work harmoniously with the 3.2 for tens of thousands of miles.

Buy an R32..20-30k
Invest 15K turbo/install
Pop on some wheels/suspension and for 40k+/-..you have a German built chassis with a Lambo fighting heart…Not sure where I would invest 40-50K today on a new car that could even flicker a similar performance experience…Ford Edge…Acura TL….BMW..NOT


Anyone that has jumped behind the wheel of their FI 3.2 can attest to the adrenaline rush you get from the raw THRUST delivered through the 4-motion.

With 8 more cars under the knife at HPA..I am sure those that are on the fence will get enough feedback to convince them…since my first twin turbo Beetle build back in 1999, I have been hooked to this engine. I am sure a handful of our owners will post coverage as they see fit.

Side bar on the technical question..GT30 based turbines have different compressor maps..the GT35 lives on boost and the new intake and exhaust manifolds are able to generate this full boost by 3k in the RPM….Magic to drive!
 

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Triple any cars HP you need to invest into the hardware. The turbo “KIT” for $9,999 offers you a one stop do it your self program that is packed full of engineered engine specific hardware…
Marcel,

No one here is questioning the legitimacy of the 20TH Kit. We've all seen the plots, images of the product and a small video of the work in progress. However, if a Stock R came to HPA looking for the 20TH kit, $9,999 would NOT be the price. It's very misleading to advertise the price on the MKV forum as if the DSG Stage 3 is NOT a requirement when in reality it is.

So, as it stands, $9,999 for the kit, $1,995 for the DSG Stage 3 for a sub-total of $11,994 (plus tax).

Can you imagine Apple selling the iPhone for $199, and then saying, "but you also have to have iOS 5 to run it, which is $99 additional". Customers would flip out.
 

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agreed

Marcel,

No one here is questioning the legitimacy of the 20TH Kit. We've all seen the plots, images of the product and a small video of the work in progress. However, if a Stock R came to HPA looking for the 20TH kit, $9,999 would NOT be the price. It's very misleading to advertise the price on the MKV forum as if the DSG Stage 3 is NOT a requirement when in reality it is.

So, as it stands, $9,999 for the kit, $1,995 for the DSG Stage 3 for a sub-total of $11,994 (plus tax).

Can you imagine Apple selling the iPhone for $199, and then saying, "but you also have to have iOS 5 to run it, which is $99 additional". Customers would flip out.
 

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Ok, little back story. I've had the HPA FT425R kit on my car now for about 10 months. I daily drive my car and the issues I have had related to the turbo are...

  • A rubber high-pressure fuel line somehow got a hole in it. Completely strange and something I haven't seen before but was a 5min fix to replace.
  • ECU gremlin, won't set readiness on cats for some reason, like, the actual test won't go into test mode, no codes for the cat. Really weird. Car runs fine, but won't pass emissions like this. Currently working with Marcel to resolve.
  • Air filter became a little loose which caused the MAF to read funny and the car would idle funky. Found the issue one day, fixed it the next by cleaning the MAF and reattaching the air filter.

That's it. And I literally drive my car every day, to and from work, in Boston. Drove it last winter as well. So that's my experience with the setup and the issues I've had. That being said here are my thoughts on whats been discussed thus far in this thread.

I wasn't able to get the DSG flash by the time install was complete due to loaner tool delays, so I drove around for a bit on a stock DSG program, maybe a week or so. I didn't do any launches or much hard acceleration from low gears and I pretty much only drive in M anyways so the 6 gear at 35mph wasn't a issue for me. No damage to the gear box from that.

I do have upgraded brakes now but at the time I had the factory R32 brakes and they were more than adequate for normal and spirited driving. I think if you decide to track the car or do more driving where constant hard braking would be necessarily, you may want to upgrade the brakes, turbo or not.

Also as far as the price on all this stuff goes. $9999 as a base is still pretty good, and I am also curious as to the dyno plots of the base kit as well, and maybe we'll see some soon.

Do you need DSG software to fully enjoy your turbo'd car? Yes. Do you need to pay for about 30-40 hours of install labor if you can't do the install yourself? Yes. Will you want a boost gauge and other cool bits that turbo cars usually get? Probably. etc. etc.

Point is if you take a car, drastically change it from how it was delivered from the factory, it's going to cost money, lots of it.

Maybe if HPA advertised the 20th base kit as $9999 *DSG software recommended and sold separatly we could just kill that conversation.

So the important info/questions in this thread might be...


  • The base 20th turbo kit is rated at 390+hp at the price of $9999 (plus the cost of DSG software and installation)
  • People want to see HPA's dyno plots of the base kit at the $9999 price.
  • Factory R32 brakes are adequate in normal and spirited driving, anything beyond that may require an upgrade.
  • And finally, no matter how you slice it, adding a turbo to these cars is expensive. Be prepared to pay to play.

Cheers
 
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