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Yeezus. $12K in property tax would definitely make my eyes water, and I grew up in NYC. All my family that's moved out to LI bitches constantly about property taxes there but I don't think I've heard of five figures annually.

I had to look mine up, actually. 2017 build, 1,501 square feet, 4BD/2BA in metro Savannah. $2404 paid for last year and that's actually more than I thought it was. :mad: :laugh:
 

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I had to look mine up, actually. 2017 build, 1,501 square feet, 4BD/2BA in metro Savannah. $2404 paid for last year and that's actually more than I thought it was. :mad:
4BD/3BA 2700 sq/ft in Austin and it was $5500 last year.
 

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I could buy a new Nissan Versa every year with what I pay in property taxes. But then again, who would want a Nissan Versa? ;)
 

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I could buy a new Nissan Versa every year with what I pay in property taxes. But then again, who would want a Nissan Versa? ;)
Skip out on your taxes, buy a Versa every year, host your own bumper cars tournament in your basement. I don't see how you can lose.
 

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2 BD, 1 BA 960 sq ft in Manch, NH area $5k in taxes. No income or sales tax, they just roll it into property tax. :eek:
 

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The wealthiest citizens of America regularly and consistently argue for raising income taxes on the wealthiest income earners, so ....


Where the hell did you hear that? Maybe a few wacky rich libs on the coasts, but nobody else. Then when they figured out that Trump's tax overhaul was actually costing them more tax money by losing the state write-off, they screamed bloody murder. Hypocrites.

The real problem is that you can't trust these tax increases to be used as intended. History is littered with these sad tales. My Arizona example is a rare instance where you can actually see what happens when the money is used as promised, and it's great. But usually, that's not how it turns out.

Take the Golden Gate Bridge for example. When it was built, a law was passed that once the bridge was paid for, the toll was to be retired and crossing would be free. Makes sense, right? What actually happened? The law was repealed when they realized they didn't want to lose the revenue stream. They use the money for all kinds of crap, and the toll has been steadily rising ever since. When I was a kid living in the bay area, one time when it received a substantial raise, people were paying their toll in pennies to protest, holding up the toll lines. Of course they quickly passed some kind of ordinance that banned pennies completely.

We don't need more taxes, we need less and more efficient spending. Entitlements are completely out of hand. Lots of stuff needs to be reined in at some point before the whole thing collapses. More taxation is NOT the answer.
 

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Yeezus. $12K in property tax would definitely make my eyes water, and I grew up in NYC.
New York property taxes are insane. Here in Arizona, I paid just under a grand the last year I owned my house up in Chandler - 1310 sq ft, 3br/2ba, sold for $238k in early 2018. We now live in a new semi-custom home on 4 acres in rural Cochise county, total appraised value at move-in a hair over $500k. Property tax this year about $3200.

Arizona has turned purple and is gradually turning blue in Phoenix and Tucson, while the rest of the state remains more conservative. I expect more dems in office and the resulting financial chaos that will ensue as time moves on. Sad to watch unfold.
 

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As much as I appreciate the cheap property taxes in Hawaii the schools are third world. Count me in the camp that thinks we should raise taxes a bit(with all the money going to DOE).

Many people rightfully trash CA for their high taxes, but the one policy they have in place that I really think should be more widely adopted is that with prop 13, you can lock in your tax rate. As you age your neighbors are paying today's rates, but you pay what you were paying when you were in your prime and earning a good salary.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

My aunt in NYC had to leave after her yearly property tax reached 25% of her gross pension. The house was paid off but she couldn't afford to stay on a fixed income. That just isn't right IMO.

My God mother on the other hand is paying a very reasonable rate in the Bay area since they bought in 1985.

We need to do better taking care of our kids, and our elderly. It sucks that people in their prime need to shoulder that burden, but we are in this together.
 

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As much as I appreciate the cheap property taxes in Hawaii the schools are third world. Count me in the camp that thinks we should raise taxes a bit(with all the money going to DOE).

Many people rightfully trash CA for their high taxes, but the one policy they have in place that I really think should be more widely adopted is that with prop 13, you can lock in your tax rate. As you age your neighbors are paying today's rates, but you pay what you were paying when you were in your prime and earning a good salary.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

My aunt in NYC had to leave after her yearly property tax reached 25% of her gross pension. The house was paid off but she couldn't afford to stay on a fixed income. That just isn't right IMO.

My God mother on the other hand is paying a very reasonable rate in the Bay area since they bought in 1985.

We need to do better taking care of our kids, and our elderly. It sucks that people in their prime need to shoulder that burden, but we are in this together.
This is getting OT/into politics, but again, the bolded is another place we need to spend smarter, not more. Here in IL, teachers are paid great, but we also have a zillion $100k+/yr administrators who do jack **** for the kids, we sped a ton on gold-plated pension benefits, etc. my SIL is a public high school teacher, she makes probably around $120k/yr. She started just out of college, meaning at about 38 she’s only a few years away from being eligible to retire with 80% of her salary + COLA for the rest of her life. And if she hits that milestone and keeps working, the pension gets richer every year after that. That’s insanity. She was pissed a couple years ago because it was suddenly going to cost her ~$100/mo for her heath insurance for a family of four; it was previously free. My wife and I pay ~$600/mo for similar coverage through our employers. And then if we try to cut the spending on education (read: not increase it YoY) the board and teachers’ union holds it hostage by cutting some desirable program (music or art or football or something) to scare parents into fighting the “cuts” when in reality there is a ton of administrative BS that could be cut but never is.

And all of this ignores your suggestion to send more money to the federal DoE, which is a gigantic waste in and of itself; we already have 50 state DoEs, why is there a massive federal one to oversee a system run by the states? It’s alllll overhead, and all a gigantic waste.

Look, I’m a man who bought a very expensive very small and crappy house solely because it was in the BEST school district I could afford to buy into, a man who has a gold-plated private college education and went on to get an MBA. I think education is super important. But that doesn’t mean we need to just continue to blindly light tons of money on fire to fund it, just because the people who profit from us doing so tell us we should.
 

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And ironically I found this in my FB feed this AM:

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/more...inistrators-oppose-education-efficiency-bill/

More than 400 school district administrators across Illinois have filed witness slips in opposition to House Bill 3053, a bill that could enable property tax relief while ensuring more education dollars reach students and classrooms first, rather than district administrative bodies.

Over 130 of the school district administrators who filed in opposition to the Classrooms First Act collect six-figure taxpayer-backed salaries, as of May 13.

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HB 3053 would create the School District Efficiency Commission, tasked with reviewing the state’s 852 school districts, which together consume nearly two-thirds of property taxes collected in Illinois. The commission would then make recommendations for consolidating school districts, with the goal of reducing the count by a minimum of 25%.

Importantly, consolidation of school districts strictly involves merging administrative bodies, not closing individual schools. On average, Illinois school districts serve just 2,400 students per district, the sixth-lowest among states with school populations over 1 million, as of 2018 – suggesting ample room for cost-savings.

If Illinois served the same number of students per district as Virginia, it would have just 210 districts, 644 fewer than today. The same is true for the two largest student populations – California and Texas. If Illinois served the same number of students per district as California or Texas, the Prairie State today would have 514 and 398 fewer districts, respectively.
 

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That may be the case in IL, but here in HI teachers are certainly not getting rich. My buddy has his master's of education, and about 10 years of tenure at this point, and still needs to bartend, and do corporate videography 5 nights a week to keep his lights on.

We have a really hard time retaining any teachers since you simply cannot afford to be a public school teacher here. I think they should all get a raise, and should earn a professional wage.

I understand it isn't this way everywhere, and agree that Admin costs are out of control. That isn't isolated to education though, everywhere you look, even in the private sector there are armies of people just spinning around in their chairs shuffling papers around who could be gone tomorrow with no effect on the output of the operation.
 

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That may be the case in IL, but here in HI teachers are certainly not getting rich. My buddy has his master's of education, and about 10 years of tenure at this point, and still needs to bartend, and do corporate videography 5 nights a week to keep his lights on.

We have a really hard time retaining any teachers since you simply cannot afford to be a public school teacher here. I think they should all get a raise, and should earn a professional wage.

I understand it isn't this way everywhere, and agree that Admin costs are out of control. That isn't isolated to education though, everywhere you look, even in the private sector there are armies of people just spinning around in their chairs shuffling papers around who could be gone tomorrow with no effect on the output of the operation.
But the problem is teachers are not paid by the feds. So when you advocate raising federal taxes for “education” you are advocating bureaucracy. You need to fix it in your state.
 

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I want to give HI SPEED the benefit of the doubt and assume he was speaking to more local taxes to the Hawaii DOE. I think every state has its own DOE.

I would also gladly pay more taxes for better teacher pay. We as a society are becoming so short sighted and profit driven we are starting to lose sight of the value of **** like education. There are problems with education administration but that's hardly justification for burning the whole thing down as many advocate to do.
 

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I grew up in the Chicago burbs, and my parents and 2 brothers are still there....
My dad's entire family grew up in Chicago. Over the last 80 years if you expand it out to include the in-law families, back in the 80s it might have been 60-70 people, all in.

Today there's 1 left. Yes one. Retired and living in Oregon, IL on the Rock River. The rest headed south to Texas, Georgia, the Carolinas and Florida.
 

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But the problem is teachers are not paid by the feds. So when you advocate raising federal taxes for “education” you are advocating bureaucracy. You need to fix it in your state.
Yep. A 20 year teacher with a Masters in my old K-12 district in MD makes ~$40-45K a year more than here in my current district. Union vs non-union.

It's an issue that needs to be fixed asap. Teacher shortages are no joke. I live in a high growth / high income town and we cannot find enough teachers, subs, bus drivers anything...yet the state legislature says maybe a 1-2% salary increase will help. Yea, ok? :rolleyes:

And states should tax cars annually on value, just like home prop taxes. Makes the ICE/EV equation fair. And agreed w/ AZGOLF about gas taxes just hurting the working class.
 

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Where the hell did you hear that? Maybe a few wacky rich libs on the coasts, but nobody else. Then when they figured out that Trump's tax overhaul was actually costing them more tax money by losing the state write-off, they screamed bloody murder. Hypocrites.
Jeff Bezos and Warren Buffet said so, and the leaders of the Democratic party all say that their rich donors want their taxes raised so I think we should give them what they want. Clearly if at least two billionaires want their taxes to go up, that's basically the same as a majority anyway.
 

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Keeping It On A Vehicle Perspective

So what does a tax whack state like Illinois drive?

Cars 4,782,850 (44.95%)
CUVs 2,404,197 (22.59%)
SUVs 1,113,567 (10.46%)
Pickups 1,470,167 (13.82%)
Vans/Minivans 870,456 (8.18%

Gas 10,233,912 (96.17%)
Diesel 211,688 (1.99%)
Hybrid 172,969 (1.63%)
Electric 12,422 (0.12%)
Plug-In Hybrid 10,246 (0.10%)

https://autoalliance.org/in-your-state/IL/

Most popular cars?

1. Chevrolet Impala
2. Chevrolet Malibu
3. Toyota Camry
4. Honda Accord
5. Nissan Altima

"It's also interesting that the Pontiac Grand Prix is in the top 20 most popular cars in Illinois even though it hasn't been manufactured since 2008." :laugh:

https://www.everquote.com/illinois/buying-selling-autos/most-popular-cars/
 

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Yep. A 20 year teacher with a Masters in my old K-12 district in MD makes ~$40-45K a year more than here in my current district. Union vs non-union.

It's an issue that needs to be fixed asap. Teacher shortages are no joke. I live in a high growth / high income town and we cannot find enough teachers, subs, bus drivers anything...yet the state legislature says maybe a 1-2% salary increase will help. Yea, ok? :rolleyes:
If someone was going to raise my taxes and direct it to actual TEACHER salaries, directly to people who are in the classroom with kids, I'd be all for it. But that's not how it works. They'll blow it on other stupid **** and just come back with the hand out again next year.

And states should tax cars annually on value, just like home prop taxes. Makes the ICE/EV equation fair. And agreed w/ AZGOLF about gas taxes just hurting the working class.
Why should we pay property tax on cars? I already pay SUBSTANTIAL sales tax on cars at the point of purchase (8.25% in suburban Cook County, 9.5% in Chicago proper). There's no reason we should pay continued property tax on cars. Now, if you wanted to argue EVs are getting a free ride, I'd say you need to come up with a tax that approximates what others pay. Take the fleet average mileage (say, 12k miles) and the fleet average fuel economy (say 25mpg) and that's 480 gallons of gas annually, times the $.19/gal we pay in IL for gas tax, and charge them $91, I could see an argument for that. Or double the mileage, I don't care, but something along those lines.

But the reality is, cars cause such a small percentage of road wear, which is what the gas tax is supposed to cover, it doesn't really matter. It's all trucks doing the damage anyways. Do they really need an extra $91 from each EV driver?
 
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