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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hello everyone, i am very interested in getting a v10 tdi phaeton, but they aren't offered in the usa. could anybody tell me what would need to be done to import one and make it legal? thank you
 

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Re: Importing (dieselsteev)

Quote, originally posted by dieselsteev »
hello everyone, i am very interested in getting a v10 tdi phaeton, but they aren't offered in the usa. could anybody tell me what would need to be done to import one and make it legal? thank you

Basically run for Federal office, win, and change the laws regarding this.

I think it has already been concluded that this is not in any way possible. Others would be in line to do this if it were.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Importing (car_guy)

stupid america never gets the good cars! perhaps i'll have to move to europe after senior year. it's really unfortunate, because alot of americans would love 30mpg from a luxury sedan.
 

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Re: Importing (car_guy)

Quote, originally posted by car_guy »
Basically run for Federal office, win, and change the laws regarding this.

Hi Stephen:
Welcome to the Phaeton forum. Steven (Car Guy) is 100% correct in his answer - it is simply impossible, it would be akin to trying to legally import marijuana... it just can't be done unless legislation is changed.
The V10 TDI complies with the European emissions specifications, but the American emissions specifications are different, and (arguably) discriminatory against diesel engines because of the way that they treat NO2 emissions. The V10 TDI produces fewer emissions per mile travelled than many gasoline engines, but on a per cubic liter of exhaust gas collected basis, it doesn't meet the American standards. In Europe, the standards also consider how economical the engine is - in other words, how many 'pollutants per mile' it produces, as opposed to just looking at the fumes that come out of the tailpipe.
VW did offer the V10 TDI in Touaregs during 2005, but had to withdraw it from the NAR market in 2006. They do plan to bring it back, so, if you want that engine, you will have to coax the parents into buying a SUV.
Michael
 

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Re: Importing (dieselsteev)

Many years ago I looked into importing a Triumph Dolomite Sprint. I found that I would have had to crash one under strict conrtol of federal authorities, and then convert another one to all applicable federal emissions standards and have it tested. So yes, basically impossible. I would, as a foreigner, haev had the options of importing it for "tourism" for up to one year, after which I would have had to ship it back or allow it to be impoundend by federal authorities. It's possible that this rule still applies.
Stefano
 

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Just a quick correction on the Touareg V10 TDI availability in the US:
- 2004 sold in US
- 2005 no diesels
- 2006 sold as a 50-state model, but not released from the port until September 2006 with the availability of ULSD (ultra low sulfer diesel), to be compatible with new DPF (diesel particle filter)
- 2007 sold only in 45 states that have less stringent emissions standards (e.g., not CA or NY), but otherwise identical engine to 2006 model.
It's so impossible to import a european Phaeton, that, if you had enough money and time, you'd probably be better off finding a wrecked/used 2004 Touareg, and dropping that V10 TDI engine into a North American spec Phaeton. ;-)
As the owner of both a (V8 gasoline) Phaeton, and a 2006 V10 TDI Touareg, I'd *LOVE* to have the Touareg's engine in my Phaeton! That would be an incredible vehicle with the best of all worlds: the refinement and quality of the Phaeton, combined with the economy and tree-stump-pulling torque of the diesel for typical US around-town driving.
- Dave


Modified by uberanalyst at 2:59 PM 5-11-2007
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
i will be buying the car, not my parents. and thats unfortunate that we can't get such a great engine. and i dont think americans are stupid, i think there are some stupid rules, which is inherent with most nations. and i'm not sure how i feel about an engine swap, i think i'll just go for the w12.
 

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Re: (dieselsteev)

Hi Stephen:
If you are considering buying the car yourself, perhaps check what the insurance costs will be first. In general, the Phaeton is quite an inexpensive car to insure because of the anti-theft features and the excellent occupant protection. However, you should check ahead of time to make sure that your insurance company will not crucify you because of the high horsepower of the W12 engine (either 420 or 444 horsepower, depending on model year). Also, the collision premium - this being the part of the insurance that pays for repair of your car if you damage it - is a bit higher than normal on the Phaetons, because any kind of front-end damage usually results in a very high repair bill due to multiple radiators up at the front of the car.
Also - just a last bit of information for you - the W12 uses quite a bit of fuel when driven in the city. For pure highway driving, it is quite economical - it uses exactly twice as much fuel as a Golf TDI, which is one of the most economical cars driven. Pure highway driving costs about $10 in fuel for every 60 miles travelled. However - the fuel mileage for city driving is, uh, not something we brag about. Figure on about 12 MPG, which is equal to $10 in fuel for every 30 miles travelled. That could add up to a heck of a fuel bill if you are still a student. Regular scheduled maintenance is also expensive - the W12 requires 13 quarts of special VW specification oil each oil change, so the total cost for an oil change is about $300, more or less.
One other vehicle you might want to look for - an equally rare, and equally luxurious VW - would be a W8 powered Passat wagon. If I was much younger, I would probably choose that over a Phaeton just because the wagon offers a wider range of choices - you can load it up for camping or travelling, haul stuff in it easier, and so forth. The W8 Passats were a bit like the Phaeton - too much technology for the North American market - and as a result, they were withdrawn after only about 18 months on sale here. They are truly awesome cars.
Michael
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: (PanEuropean)

Thank you Michael, that is helpful. I'm not very worried about fuel and insurance, but I saw the v10 as a good way luxury and economy. I'll have to look more into the w8 passat, i've seen them bofre and i like the styling of the phaeton more, but they seem like they are more versitile.
 

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hello...newbie here...joined the forum 2 days ago
.
i was a big fan of the phaetons when it came out and still am. If i had the money to buy one i would def have done it but unfortunately, phaeton being taken away from the NA market has me worried if i should even consider a used one due to lack of dealer support to a certain extent....i mean how many technicians are there in NY that know how to fix phaetons?
everytime i look at the car on the internet (seeing a real one is like getting to see a shooting star), it amazes me how one can just look at it and say its a oversized passat. i believe as everyone here says "unless u sit and ride in one or drive in one, u cannot even say what the car is about". I am yet to ride or drive one but just from what u folks say and from the reviews that i have read, it seems that the only one problem this car has....is the consumer!
I search Youtube once in a while to see if i can find more videos of phaetons being driven around other than the 3 that are available. I wished that more owners posted videos of them driving their cars but i guess the phaeton was never meant to be a show-off car. Such refinement will never come in any other car of its class in the future.
Back to topic, isnt it possible to import a european spec w12? doesnt it have the same engine and thus the same emissions? I would think the only things that needed to be changed are the side markers and maybe the tail lights to comply with US regulation. I am guessing the emissions does not change. can someone shed me some light on this? If that is the case, then i think i might consider a new w12 sometime next year teeeheeeeheeee! Looking forward to interact with all u gentlemen in the future.
P:S i am not sure if there are any newbie rules that i need to follow so i apologize for missing it if there is any.
 

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Re: (itsallbeendonebefore)

Welcome to the forum! The original poster is talking about a V10 TDI (diesel)
As far an not enough tech's in your area that can be a significant problem. We're lucky here in the Chicago area as service is no problem.


Modified by petermueller at 6:24 AM 5-14-2007
 

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Re: (PanEuropean)

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »
...the W12 uses quite a bit of fuel when driven in the city...the fuel mileage for city driving is, uh, not something we brag about. Figure on about 12 MPG, which is equal to $10 in fuel for every 30 miles travelled. That could add up to a heck of a fuel bill if you are still a student.

Michael is right - my W12 is my daily driver. I commute about 16 miles round trip per day and then run personal errands and family visits all over town after hours and on weekends.
Like clockwork, I refill the tank once a week at about $60 a pop.
That's about $3,120 in fuel per year.
I hedge this situation by investing in oil and gas.
 

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petermueller, thanx for the correction. i am very positive that it is next to impossible to bring in a car that has not been introduced in the american market by the Auto association of AmRika. story of a person who imported his skyline from japan come to mind.
i hope they do come back with the phaeton and offer the diesel. i believe the cost of diesel is a tad bit lower than petrol in europe which happens to be one of the many reasons to sell more diesels there in europe.
If i am right, diesel costs more than gasoline in America and thats why less ppl prefer it? who knows..maybe when gas hits $5 a gallon then america will hit its head on the wall and bend the rules to bring more diesels here.
 

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Re: (itsallbeendonebefore)

Hello Slajan:
You can bring a car into the United States or Canada that has not been marketed in this country, but to do so, the manufacturer has to be willing to certify that the car conforms with all the applicable safety and emission standards in effect as of the date of manufacture. If you have a look at the driver door A pillar in your car, just above the upper hinge, you will see a label there indicating that your car conforms to the standards for your country.
The hitch, though, is that the manufacturers have to spend a fortune to go through all the testing and certification of the car before they can attach that label to it, thus, unless you are willing to pay what would probably be a 7 figure number for the certification process, you won't get the label.
Your comment is generally correct - I just thought I would add a bit of precision to it because I just went through the process of importing a USA certified car into Canada earlier today, and even though the USA version and the Canada version of this car are exactly identical, it was still a massive pain - I spent over 6 hours at the border, 3 hours at the American office to get approval to export it, and another 3 hours at the Canadian office to get approval to import it. I left the Canadian border office $8,800 poorer...

Michael
 

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michael, thanx for educating me with the details of importing....if only things were as easy as bringing the car here or taking it there without having to change anything.
wow! $8800? and i thought USA and Canada were friends. i guess there is a price to pay for certain things if u wanna have it your way. thank u once again.
slajan
 

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Re: (itsallbeendonebefore)

Quote, originally posted by itsallbeendonebefore »
wow! $8800? and i thought USA and Canada were friends.

Slajan,
Don't be too surprised about the tarriff -- what Michael left out is that it was $8800 Canadian!
 

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Re: (itsallbeendonebefore)

Quote, originally posted by itsallbeendonebefore »
wow! $8800? and i thought USA and Canada were friends.

We are friends, and it is too good a friendship - that is why I had to pay all that money. The NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) allows any vehicle made in Canada, America, or Mexico to be freely moved between the three countries with no duty of any kind. The Phaeton is made in Germany, thus, it is subject to a 6.1% duty. VW paid the duty once already when they imported the car from Germany to America, but the Canadian government wants their pound of flesh too, so they imposed the duty a second time around when I brought it into Canada.
Plus, of course, we have a 'national sales tax' (a form of value added tax) here in Canada of about 7 or 8%, and that also had to be paid. Believe it or not, it ain't over yet - when Don goes to pick up Ontario licence plates, he will have to pay an additional 7 or 8% provincial sales tax before he gets the plates.
Governments love Phaetons - they generate more tax revenue than Hyundais.

Michael
 

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Re: (PanEuropean)

Michael is absolutely correct . Canada is like any other country if it comes in to the country .....tax it !!! . Our Federal Sales Tax (GST) is 6% plus the Foreign Duty of 6.1% . .... then you licence it in Ontario there is the (PST) of 8% . But the above is true for any and all vehcles new or used imported or domestic . The real P/O is they put a $100 tax on AirConditioning !! .....can you beleive it !!
We are now experts on importing cars to Canada .
FYI the "Black Beauty" arrives at noon today . Cato ( aka Michael ) is driving it down . ( some of you remember Cato from the Green Hornet ...don't you ? )
I will now become a official Driving member of the Forum . ...a truly remarkable group .... and happyto be here .
Don
 

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Re: Importing (dieselsteev)

I think everyone here on VWVortex should pool money so we can get our on lobbyists in DC to repeal import laws. I think its pretty ridiculous even more so than the '<strike>scary looking guns</strike> Assault Weapons Ban. I mean if they were concerned about the cars later being sold with out the second owner knowing it was a non-US Market car, then all they would have to do is mandate disclosure of the standards. What they should do is limit from where cars can be privately imported. I sure as heck wouldn't want to see a car like this around: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZWy_fASSiQ (in French, but pretty self explanatory (funny that the guys laugh right after the impact) but just make people disclose the originial market, and the safety ratings. Its not like if the laws were repealed that the entire population would flock to grey market cars.
 
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