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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On 20 April, I will be traveling to TracRacing to have them install a 3.0l Shortblock in my GTI. I am going to have them do a bunch of other maintenance stuff while I am there. My question is cams. I currently have DSR 256 cams and I love them. However, TracRacing does have a pretty sick deal going on for the Cat 268's which Stephane recomends for the 3.0l all motor. The question becomes, do I sell my DSR 256's and get the Cat's staying all motor. Or, do I keep the DSR's and plan for Forced Induction in the future? Any help is appreciated.
 

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Re: Indecision (tatge)

If you're really planning for FI hold out and do a low compression long block with the turbo install. When you build a motor, don't try and make it alright at doing two things that it "might" be doing in the future and just build it for what it's actually going to be used for.
Low comp motors for boost, high compression motors for NA.
 

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Re: Indecision (tatge)

quote:[HR][/HR]But should I stay NA or go FI?[HR][/HR]​
Best bang for the buck is FI, if you look at the dollar to HP ratio. takes alot of money to get to 225-240 whp NA
 

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Re: Indecision (tatge)

quote:[HR][/HR]But should I stay NA or go FI?[HR][/HR]​
That's the most loaded question in this forum!
It depends on what you want out of the car, hp goals, drivability, bragging rights, the cool sound of a blow off valve, etc.
I like all motor cars, but that's just me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Indecision (need_a_VR6)

This is the hard part for me. I put about 30k a year on a car, mostly highway. I need something reliable, fast, and fun. I love stomping on Mustangs, but those Z28's like to tailgate me.
need_a_VR6: What are your reasons for staying all motor?
Basically for now, I am thinking of getting everything done for the next two years in two weeks and spend the remaining two years paying off the loan.
So far we are doing:
Audi TT Quattro six speed manual transmission
Quaife
Sachs Power clutch
TRT Aluminum Flywheel
Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Pullies
Slotted Audi TT brake Rotors
 

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Re: Indecision (tatge)

quote:[HR][/HR]
Audi TT Quattro six speed manual transmission
Quaife
Sachs Power clutch
TRT Aluminum Flywheel
Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Pullies
Slotted Audi TT brake Rotors [HR][/HR]​
quattro~ needs turbo. i m voting for fi!!
 

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Re: Indecision (tatge)

quote:[HR][/HR]need_a_VR6: What are your reasons for staying all motor?[HR][/HR]​
Well when I decided to build that motor (about two years ago now!) there weren't really any reliable FI options at the time. The Z kit was barely out, EIP was a mess, and AMS wasn't much better. It wasn't really that I didn't want to, just no one could cater to my need of the car remaining reliable.
Long story short, I ended up getting a "street" motor built around a particular cam grind that no one had yet run on the street in a soild motor. Actually, I still don't think anyone has gotten these cams to run right on a 10:1 motor, but I hope to change that.
There's a certain challenge in all motor that there just isn't in FI, here I don't have the option to turn up the boost and make more oower. It's all about matching your components and doing a lot of math, and hoping things will turn out well.
It's all up to you, how much hp do you want and how do you want to get there? Oh, and how much $$ are you willing to sink into a car that will probably never see 250whp (all motor)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Indecision (need_a_VR6)

Alright, so I am thinking of selling my 256's and getting the 268's for the 11:1 motor and staying NA for a while.
What would I gain/lose?
If/when in the future I do go FI, all I would have to do is swap in lower cams and replace the head gasket right?
What is the most boost you could put through a 11:1 motor?
 

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Re: Indecision (need_a_VR6)

quote:[HR][/HR]need_a_VR6: What are your reasons for staying all motor?
There's a certain challenge in all motor that there just isn't in FI, here I don't have the option to turn up the boost and make more oower. It's all about matching your components and doing a lot of math, and hoping things will turn out well.
[HR][/HR]​
Paul.... I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be such an all-motor guru if your car weighed 3000lbs like ours do...
 

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Re: Indecision (tatge)

quote:[HR][/HR]Alright, so I am thinking of selling my 256's and getting the 268's for the 11:1 motor and staying NA for a while.
What would I gain/lose?
If/when in the future I do go FI, all I would have to do is swap in lower cams and replace the head gasket right?
What is the most boost you could put through a 11:1 motor?[HR][/HR]​
IMO, building an 11:1 motor to eventually go boost doesn't seem like the right way to do things. Even my motor is only 10:1 and the 268s will run fine with that. If you're looking for more NA power than the 268s can provide (276,280,302) then look into the higher compression. The 268s in an 11:1 motor would sure scream though.
I'm not sure what comp the 11:1 motor would be with the "turbo" gasket, probably around 9.5:1. Still a tad high for big boost, but not too high. I'm thinking a max boost of 12lbs, but that's a guess at best.
I'm sure Steph could sort you out a little more as well.
Dan, what's 700lbs between cars, right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Indecision (need_a_VR6)

If I ever did boost, it would be low. If I were to ever go above 300whp, I would kill myself. Michigan gets too much snow. 300+whp can wait until I commission and get stationed somewhere with less snow.
 

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Re: Indecision (tatge)

quote:[HR][/HR]I was re-reading the TRT VR6 12v 3.0l Block thread and I got to thinking. if I go with the 11:1, Cat 268, and a Stage II head, I should be pretty darn close to 250whp. I could live with that, don't you think?[HR][/HR]​
Well, it's possible to get more than 250whp, but the highest NA dyno I've ever seen was Trac's 218whp run. That was the 3.0 with the 268's and stock head.
There were a few low 200whp runs awhile ago with stock bottoms and CCH heads so it's possible.
Headwork is worth alot on a VR6.
Might want to try the 280s
I'd like to know how they work and where the powerband is.
 

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Re: Indecision (tatge)

quote:[HR][/HR]the stage II head goes for 900, acording to the other thread[HR][/HR]​
I mean in terms of hp, not $$. If that head really puts the power out that Steph says it does, it's the deal of the century!
 

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Re: Indecision (tatge)

Dunno, it's very subjective as chip tuning and even the type of dyno used can influence numbers a great deal. Judging by Steph's runs with the mule, I'd say over 200whp, probably by alot.
I still have no dynos of my motor (still break in) so I have no real baseline as to how a bored out, headworked, big cammed car even does on the dyno.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Indecision (need_a_VR6)

Perhaps he should start a betting poll, find out who is the closest. I've never had a car/motor that I cared about enough to follow a break-in procedure. What do you recomend? This is my first non-Chrysler lease and I bought the car used.
 
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