VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner

41 - 53 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
28,777 Posts
So, ballpark doesn't work when it comes to varying regional labor rates.
Sure it can, when I call for an estimate they tell me how many hours the book says a procedure will take as well as what parts need to be replaced, pretty sure an hour is an hour the world over :p

That said, and additional $4-700 in maintenance every 40/50k years doesn't sound very 'affordable' to me. Yet another reason why EVs are making more sense (or a system like that in the volt where the ICE is there if you need it but don't have to rely on it 100%)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,182 Posts
DI engines aren’t “dirty”. They produce more PM (particulate matter, a.k.a. soot) for the same reason that Diesels do—they run lean. When GDI engines came on to the market 10-12 years ago they brought an increase in power and fuel efficiency but higher fine PM emissions. As standards for those have gotten more strict manufacturers have started adding particulate filters like they did previously for Diesels.

In terms of CO and CO2, GDI engines are much cleaner since they burn less fuel per cycle. But with all the extra PM even washing the intake valves with secondary injectors can’t stop the buildup. As others have posted, getting the intake valves to a high enough temperature to burn off the buildup on a regular basis is effective preventative maintenance but has to be done often or else the buildup will get too thick for it to work.

FWIW the 3.6 VR6 doesn’t appear to build up deposits as quickly as other GDI engines, and/or doesn’t suffer from it as much. It’s not turbocharged and has a pretty slick dual-vortex oil separator in the PCV system that keeps the recirculated gasses pretty clean, so that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,927 Posts
Sure it can, when I call for an estimate they tell me how many hours the book says a procedure will take as well as what parts need to be replaced, pretty sure an hour is an hour the world over :p

That said, and additional $4-700 in maintenance every 40/50k years doesn't sound very 'affordable' to me. Yet another reason why EVs are making more sense (or a system like that in the volt where the ICE is there if you need it but don't have to rely on it 100%)
The question asked was "How much", not how long it takes to conduct a service. There is a difference. One is a constant (length of the labor) and the other has variables (how much).

Ballpark on cost isn't a reasonable question without knowing the location.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,927 Posts
DI engines aren’t “dirty”. They produce more PM (particulate matter, a.k.a. soot) for the same reason that Diesels do—they run lean. When GDI engines came on to the market 10-12 years ago they brought an increase in power and fuel efficiency but higher fine PM emissions. As standards for those have gotten more strict manufacturers have started adding particulate filters like they did previously for Diesels.

In terms of CO and CO2, GDI engines are much cleaner since they burn less fuel per cycle. But with all the extra PM even washing the intake valves with secondary injectors can’t stop the buildup. As others have posted, getting the intake valves to a high enough temperature to burn off the buildup on a regular basis is effective preventative maintenance but has to be done often or else the buildup will get too thick for it to work.

FWIW the 3.6 VR6 doesn’t appear to build up deposits as quickly as other GDI engines, and/or doesn’t suffer from it as much. It’s not turbocharged and has a pretty slick dual-vortex oil separator in the PCV system that keeps the recirculated gasses pretty clean, so that helps.
Actually, it's from the sulfur in the fuel. When Diesel #2 went to Ultra-low specification, Particulate matter decreased also. Also GDI does not operate in the lean burn mode in North America, NOx emissions is too high. Also all of the VW forced-induction GDI's world-wide don't have the "Stratified Mode" (aka Lean Burn), also. This is why the "S" went from "Stratified" to "Straight" in the FSI acronym.

Diesel tuning works differently. The fuel uses as much air as it needs, the rest of the unused air is used to mask the PM emissions. Coal-rolling diesels, there isn't enough fuel to mask the PM emissions. Back in the day, just swapping in larger nozzles (orifaces) on the fuel injector is enough to make increases in HP & Torque, while keeping the stock boost profile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,078 Posts
The question asked was "How much", not how long it takes to conduct a service. There is a difference. One is a constant (length of the labor) and the other has variables (how much).

Ballpark on cost isn't a reasonable question without knowing the location.


If someone says the shop billed me 6 hours at 90 and hour


And someone in another area goes ok they charge 110 here.


Anyone who's passed the 6th grade can ballpark the cost.



It is absolutely reasonable
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,927 Posts
If someone says the shop billed me 6 hours at 90 and hour


And someone in another area goes ok they charge 110 here.


Anyone who's passed the 6th grade can ballpark the cost.



It is absolutely reasonable
No it's not. it's like asking "What's the ballpark cost to buy new tires for my car?" without providing information about the car.

Since you're so smart, do you know where javacoffee lives? Once you get that key information of his region, then you can ballpark the cost. All one can do is ballpark the labor time and associated parts costs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,078 Posts
No it's not. it's like asking "What's the ballpark cost to buy new tires for my car?" without providing information about the car.

Since you're so smart, do you know where javacoffee lives? Once you get that key information of his region, then you can ballpark the cost. All one can do is ballpark the labor time and associated parts costs
I literally use posts like this to figure out billing on odd jobs a few times a week.

Sorry you're lack of ability to do math doesn't make this request impossible.

You're not wrong that labor hours isn't a final cost. But you're being intentionally stupid in an attempt to be "right".
 

·
Just Going with the FLO.
Joined
·
2,158 Posts
which is the better deal: a shop that does it in 5 hrs @ $120 hr or the one that takes 6 hrs but only charges $100 hr?

:popcorn:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,554 Posts
The ones in Europe with port injection also get carbon buildup too.
:confused: I thought European engines don't have this issue due to dual injection. Do you have a link? Where did you get that info, I'd like to read it also, I was hoping to buy a car in Europe and not have to worry about this issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,618 Posts
Back when I lived in NJ, it was nearly $700 to walnut blast the 2.0T, including replacement gaskets and injector seals, and this was at an independent shop.

In SoCal, the local shop charges $350 to do the job.

If you live in the middle of nowhere where the labor rate is low, it can be less expensive.

So, ballpark doesn't work when it comes to varying regional labor rates.
*gives ballpark estimate*

*says ballpark estimates don't work*

:laugh:

I mean, if someone told me "$350-$700, might be less if you live somewhere with a low cost of living" I'd be like "okay, thanks for the ballpark estimate good sir, this is valuable information that helps me plan for my future wallet discomfort!" :beer:

I wouldn't be throwing over chairs OCC style wondering why you did not properly estimate the sales tax on parts in my specific municipality.
 

·
Just Going with the FLO.
Joined
·
2,158 Posts
kinda on topic CSB

was behind car that had single exhaust with two tips on it (not sure what it was) one was carbon black inside and one shiny/new. My guess was one tip was fake. That would trigger me. I'm not fussy enuf to care about carbon discoloring tips but having only one dark :thumbdown:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,404 Posts
old thread is old but FWIW I had the intake off my first gen EA888 2.0T at 48k miles and they said it was really clean, just did a light scraping of what was in there for no charge and was not in need of walnut blasting at all, which I was prepared to pay for.
 
41 - 53 of 53 Posts
Top