[sixteen10]

Ok I just had a very spirited drive back to the office to get my stuff for early closure ( public holiday tomorrow ) and I encountered some prime traffic circles on my way back.

I have the Haldex in race mode , ECU + DSG tunes , 225/35/19 Yokohama S Drives and my H&R / Koni suspension with ARB's front and rear. I was driving and accelerated hard out of a circle in 2nd gear and heard the front tyres starts squealing under load.

I was under the impression the torque transfer to the rear was immediate and found it surprising to hear that , especially with the stupidly low power output of my car up here. It didn't happen very long as I straightened out , just hoping that my Haldex isn't broken?

 

[AWPower]

Its normal our cars are a more front wheel drive AWD

 

[Saabstory02]

It's perfectly normal. When you push it out of a turn; the Haldex will transfer power to the back to keep you headed in the right direction, but you are still driving the front wheels as well. When coming out of a turn this is especially important, since the fronts are both power and steering.

You just overdrove your tire's grip in the situation :laugh:

 

[AWPower]

Well said Jason

 

[HOWIE-WP]

In stock form we tested Mk5 GTi and the R32 at Killarney (local race track in Cape Town) - I am a race driver as well. We found on the same day, same driver, same amount of fuel, the GTi was 1.5sec on average quicker than the R32. The .:R, despite (or maybe because of) 4x4, understeers badly compared to a FWD car. This was the same with all the other race drivers that tested the 2 back to back. This time is all lost in the turns.

 

[SKNKWRX]

If you accidentally installed your Haldex backwards you could be transferring all the power to the front wheels though you would have to be REALLY high to do something like that

 

[10Ten]

In stock form we tested Mk5 GTi and the R32 at Killarney (local race track in Cape Town) - I am a race driver as well. We found on the same day, same driver, same amount of fuel, the GTi was 1.5sec on average quicker than the R32. The .:R, despite (or maybe because of) 4x4, understeers badly compared to a FWD car. This was the same with all the other race drivers that tested the 2 back to back. This time is all lost in the turns.

yeah it's really easy to understeer our cars coming out of turns, but you probably found this out at other times, no? you really can't push before the apex in our cars or snowplowing will ensue.

you may also want to check your Haldex fuse if you suspect it's not activating at all.

 

[AWPower]

Understeer id from all the motor weight in the front compared to the GTi

 

[Saabstory02]

In stock form we tested Mk5 GTi and the R32 at Killarney (local race track in Cape Town) - I am a race driver as well. We found on the same day, same driver, same amount of fuel, the GTi was 1.5sec on average quicker than the R32. The .:R, despite (or maybe because of) 4x4, understeers badly compared to a FWD car. This was the same with all the other race drivers that tested the 2 back to back. This time is all lost in the turns.

No offense; but that same comparison has been done over and over by numerous different magazines (of course, it's a natural comparo) including Car and Driver and Top Gear among others; and all of them finish with the GTI slower than the .:R32. The MKVI is faster, due to its weight loss, added power and XDS; but the MKV in stock form is not close.

As one example, from the Lightning Lap Series:

MKVI GTI - 3:19.3
MKV R32 - 3:21.8
MKV GTI - 3:25.1

If you found the GTI to be faster around a track, you are driving the .:R32 wrong... Oh, and just in case you feel I am just "defending" my ride, I own and drive both my 2009 GTI and my 2008 R32 regularly

 

[Mr_Peach]

Yeah, I was going to respond to 10Ten's "scary neutral" observation in another thread.

My R has Haldex on race, a Neuspeed RSB with endlinks, and otherwise stock suspension on 235 Direzza Star Specs. At my last track day in the rain, I experienced understeer, oversteer, and four wheel drifts. It's all in how you 'chuck' the car. What threw me most that day was that the amount of water on the track varied from lap to lap as the storm systems moved through.

I was trying to find that elusive 'steady state slide' as a fast way around a wet track.

 

[sixteen10]

yeah it's really easy to understeer our cars coming out of turns, but you probably found this out at other times, no? you really can't push before the apex in our cars or snowplowing will ensue.

you may also want to check your Haldex fuse if you suspect it's not activating at all.

Thanks , do you know which fuse is for the Haldex? I have wanted to find out before so I could get involved in FWD dyno days

Ok thanks for all the responses guys , I just figured that with the front and rear sways ( soft and hard respectively ) , koni dampers , h&R springs and Haldex in race that oversteer would occur more easily.

I must be honest , the car did not feel like it was understeering nor that it had a dramatic impact on the line I had chosen , I just thought there would be more torque transfer to the rear. I havent really pushed the car that hard previously for fear of the 19"s catching the fender but now I know that with 225's on a good surface it handles the speed quite easily.

:thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Slave IV]

Not all "race car drivers" are created equally huh? No knock at HOWIE-WP but the lines you take and the way you drive an AWD car should be different than a FWD or RWD car. If you don't know how to take advantage of AWD or you are just better or more used to driving a FWD car, then of course you will will do better in the FWD car. There is a reason why AWD was banned in many races and the main reason was "unfair advantage". AWD FTW!:thumbup:

 

[Slave IV]

Ok thanks for all the responses guys , I just figured that with the front and rear sways ( soft and hard respectively ) , koni dampers , h&R springs and Haldex in race that oversteer would occur more easily.

I must be honest , the car did not feel like it was understeering nor that it had a dramatic impact on the line I had chosen , I just thought there would be more torque transfer to the rear. I havent really pushed the car that hard previously for fear of the 19"s catching the fender but now I know that with 225's on a good surface it handles the speed quite easily.

:thumbup::thumbup:

The RSB will reduce understeer/increase oversteer but since you also have the FSB, the effects are negated a bit (still should be better than stock because I know the aftermarket RSB's usually increase stiffness a lot more than the FSB's). It's difficult to tell what effect your dampers and springs will have without knowing their rates compared to each other and stock (again, please help with my suspension spec thread!..This should be information we all had before the 1st set of aftermarket springs or coilovers were ever purchased for this platform!!!). Obviously, you ideally want stiffer rear springs to help balance out the car and that doesn't always seem to be the case with the different aftermarket options.

 

[HOWIE-WP]

No offense; but that same comparison has been done over and over

None taken, only mentioning what we found. It was not just myself, but all the race drivers that tested the car (some much better and quicker than me).

If you found the GTI to be faster around a track, you are driving the .:R32 wrong... Oh, and just in case you feel I am just "defending" my ride, I own and drive both my 2009 GTI and my 2008 R32 regularly

Might be, i am used to racing a Mk1 FWD. Compared to FWD the .:R32 understeers badly. I am also not knocking the .:R32 just that it takes a differnt driving style. I know here many people think that 4wd = automatic better handling and that is not necessary true.

 

[abeR]

id not worry about all this and check the tire pressure.

 

[HOWIE-WP]

Not all "race car drivers" are created equally huh? No knock at HOWIE-WP

Of course, I am hardly a professional race driver. Just commenting of what I found and the results were similar for other race car drivers (most much more skilled than me)

but the lines you take and the way you drive an AWD car should be different than a FWD or RWD car. If you don't know how to take advantage of AWD

Agreed, but being able to hit the apex of the corner should always be the end result, no matter what you're driving.

or you are just better or more used to driving a FWD car, then of course you will will do better in the FWD car.

Agreed, see my comment in my post above.

 

[Slave IV]

Of course, I am hardly a professional race driver. Just commenting of what I found and the results were similar for other race car drivers (most much more skilled than me)



Agreed, but being able to hit the apex of the corner should always be the end result, no matter what you're driving.



Agreed, see my comment in my post above.

:thumbup: on all counts except the apex thing...the apex changes depending on the car you drive and especially if it is AWD or not..that is actually the key here. Not only does the apex change, but how you get to it and out of it changes and you aren't really realizing the true advantage of AWD until you learn how to take advantage of it.

 

[HOWIE-WP]

:thumbup: on all counts except the apex thing...the apex changes depending on the car you drive and especially if it is AWD or not..that is actually the key here. Not only does the apex change, but how you get to it and out of it changes and you aren't really realizing the true advantage of AWD until you learn how to take advantage of it.

That's what I meant. Hitting the apex where ever it might be, depending on the car you're driving. :thumbup:

 

[HOWIE-WP]

id not worry about all this and check the tire pressure.

+1

This is also true, sometimes the most effective solutions are the simplest :laugh:

 

[oldracer]

With the R32, I get all inputs done in a straight line - braking, gear changes, (thanks DSG!!) and turn in and start to give throttle about 1/3 thru and continue until I'm out of the corner....

Sometimes I'll get someone on my ass, but by the time I come out of rhe corner, they aren't so close anymore.

As a long time 911 racer, (and Musclecar driver too), learning to drive FWD/AWD was awful.... I just couldn't remember to throttle up sooner after 25 years of either trailing throttle or hard throttle oversteer.....
The R doesn't turn in as crisply as our GLI on the same turns, but it gets thru a helluva lot faster without that wheelspin and lifting stuff....

I usually never trailbrake because if you are going fast enough coming in, your inputs should rotate the chassis enough....
I did try it Auto X ing with the 1999 Cobra Vert, not much help, kinda like a .22 at a bazooka fight.... not helpful..

Speed secrets are, in Order:
1) Smoothness
2) Momentum
3) Seat time

Once you can routinely overdrive your OEM suspension, (hah, not likely!!), some thoughtful changes may be in order....

I would avoid CO's as primarily a low or full on track car change and go with a good strut and shock combo.
RSB seems to change the dynamic to require more changes, then you end up chasing handling thru a never ending stream of parts and $$ OEM on the MKV is extremely well sorted for a factory car and any changes will yield a positive or negative result that needs to be offset... I don't see the return unless it's a track car of spending 1,000's of $$ and time and parts for essentially a small change..... But that's me!1

I have built racecars from a pole of tubing and lots of welding on jigs, I'm remembering the agonies of getting every detail as perfect as you can and then saying: wait maybe if I do this..... you get the idea
The Dragon is a great road to show the technical competence of your R, it is amazing as delivered....