[Vee-aR-6ix]

The new 3.2L VR6 is obviously a better performing engine than the 2.8L mostly due to it's larger displacement and higher compression, amongst other things.
Basically, is this engine going to bring in the attention of the aftermarket companies and leave us 2.8L 24v guys yearning for the 3.2L just so we can have an aftermarket? I'd love to stick with my 2.8L, but if I'm going to have to be creative with aftermarket, I might as well stop modding and just save my pennies for an R32 or an MKV GTI with the 3.2.
What do you guys think?

 

[race-shop joe]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (Vee-aR-6ix)

no. we cant even get that many parts for the 12v vr6 still.it will be along time before we see that stuff.

 

[engine101]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (race-shop joe)

I agree with RSJ. There arent' going to be anymore aftermarket performance products for the 3.2 than there are for the the 2.8. There have never been a lot of aftermarket performance products for this segment and there likely won't be. They'll stick to the more lucrative 4cyl FI engines.

 

[joshuajmurray]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (engine101)

We're just starting an engine program for the 2.8 24v, the 3.2 will follow shortly.

 

[darrenewest]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (joshuajmurray)

2.8 and 3.2 are based off the same block (different bore and stroke) same head with bigger intake valves though from what I can figure out. Cams are interchangeable as are intakes manifolds, ect ..... 99% of 2.8 24v should cross over. I belive the R 32, Sport compact dynoed put down around 203 WHP ? The 2.8 should be able to match those #'s with only bolt ons. All FI kits should work with minor ECU tweeks. 500cc is not a huge difference.

 

[joshuajmurray]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (darrenewest)

Quote, originally posted by darrenewest »

2.8 and 3.2 are based off the same block (different bore and stroke) same head with bigger intake valves though from what I can figure out. Cams are interchangeable as are intakes manifolds, ect ..... 99% of 2.8 24v should cross over.

I don't doubt the parts interchangeability, however the bore and stroke will change the ports and other aspects of the cylinder head. It's not as simple as "it'll bolt on". I'll be curious to see if the block is indeed the same. I suspect it will be. With extreme bores ultimately you run out of room on the deck with head bolt vs bore spacing so I doubt if there would be any advantage anyway. Bottom line is we're treating them as seperate programs.

 

[muffinman]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (Vee-aR-6ix)

yes but the $64,000 question (given that the block size is the same), will be how to convert a 2.8 into a 3.2! Now that will be the money mod!

 

[Nonlinear Optics]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (engine101)

Quote, originally posted by engine101 »

I agree with RSJ. There arent' going to be anymore aftermarket performance products for the 3.2 than there are for the the 2.8. There have never been a lot of aftermarket performance products for this segment and there likely won't be. They'll stick to the more lucrative 4cyl FI engines.

ONLY because there is more money to be made. The 1.8T "chipping" market is one example. And they can charge what they do because of the gains they claim/provide.

 

[joshuajmurray]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (muffinman)

Quote, originally posted by muffinman »

yes but the $64,000 question (given that the block size is the same), will be how to convert a 2.8 into a 3.2! Now that will be the money mod!

Absolutely. We can build 3.3s with current blocks and cranks

 

[darrenewest]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (joshuajmurray)

So what's involved to make a 3.3 Josh ? OEM Crank, Rods, Larger bore pistons ? I heard R32 Cranks somwhere around $6k ? I would like to see what a fully built head would do for these vehicles, full port, larger valves, welded/planed combustion chamber 11.5:1 ? Really agressive cams ? I'm thinking of having my set or stock cams reground and selling my Schrick 252's if I can get away with a 264 or 268 or higher........... while still passing emissions testing. The magical question is what is the max the variable valve timing can handle ?

 

[joshuajmurray]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (darrenewest)

Quote, originally posted by darrenewest »

So what's involved to make a 3.3 Josh ? OEM Crank, Rods, Larger bore pistons ? I heard R32 Cranks somwhere around $6k ? I would like to see what a fully built head would do for these vehicles, full port, larger valves, welded/planed combustion chamber 11.5:1 ? Really agressive cams ? I'm thinking of having my set or stock cams reground and selling my Schrick 252's if I can get away with a 264 or 268 or higher........... while still passing emissions testing. The magical question is what is the max the variable valve timing can handle ?

R32 or ABT crank. I don't know the current price or availability of either though. I'll check the dealer Friday if they're open. We're working with JE on a "strutted" piston for the VR6 which will be important. The 24v piston is heavy to begin with. The increased stroke will make matters worse. We'll be working on some cam profiles but they'll be pricey until we can get some good billets.
Happy T-day

 

[BMW Killa]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (Vee-aR-6ix)

n/m


Modified by Maxt2 at 7:05 AM 12-1-2003

 

[BMW Killa]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (Vee-aR-6ix)

whats some hard specs on the 3.2? i looked around and cuoldnt find much..
bore/stroke/cr/etc
i thought it was a 12 v motor, but the title seems to indicate otherwise..
im sure VW will introduce some sort of trick to boost the HP down the road.. maybe some sort of wacky manifold or VVT?
the 3.2 will have the same problem as the 2.8... they dont sell enough of those engines, and the modding market is much smaller. So its a lot riskier to develop after parts for these engines, because the demand is not assured to be high. the prices for after market VW engines is insane, compared to about anything else.
its also a poor swap contender for older cars with its nighmarish DBW throttle body and electronic stabilizer (im assuming here that the MKIV will bring the same features as the MKIV engines, and with possibly more)


Modified by Maxt2 at 7:09 AM 12-1-2003

 

[joshuajmurray]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (Maxt2)

84x95.9mm. 11.3:1 static compression. I've CC'd the 2.8 at 11:1 so I believe it. All of the 3.2s are 24Vs

Quote, originally posted by Maxt2 »

whats some hard specs on the 3.2? i looked around and cuoldnt find much.. bore/stroke/cr/etc i thought it was a 12 v motor, but the title seems to indicate otherwise.. im sure VW will introduce some sort of trick to boost the HP down the road.. maybe some sort of wacky manifold or VVT? the 3.2 will have the same problem as the 2.8... they dont sell enough of those engines, and the modding market is much smaller. So its a lot riskier to develop after parts for these engines, because the demand is not assured to be high. the prices for after market VW engines is insane, compared to about anything else. its also a poor swap contender for older cars with its nighmarish DBW throttle body and electronic stabilizer (im assuming here that the MKIV will bring the same features as the MKIV engines, and with possibly more) Modified by Maxt2 at 7:09 AM 12-1-2003

 

[BMW Killa]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (joshuajmurray)

ok which features does the engine have (just to get an idea of the setup):
variable valve timing
coil pack
drive by wire
immobiliser in ecu
vgi manifold
aluminum block
piston squirters in block
forged crank
forged rods
forged pistons

 

[joshuajmurray]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (Maxt2)

The block is cast iron and the pistons are cast. Other then that your list is correct.

Quote, originally posted by Maxt2 »

ok which features does the engine have (just to get an idea of the setup): variable valve timing coil pack drive by wire immobiliser in ecu vgi manifold aluminum block piston squirters in block forged crank forged rods forged pistons

 

[XenoLlama]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (darrenewest)

Quote, originally posted by darrenewest »

I belive the R 32, Sport compact dynoed put down around 203 WHP ? The 2.8 should be able to match those #'s with only bolt ons.

Yes the 2.8 can match that with boltons, but all the cars the 2.8 are in only have FWD, as where the R32 is turning 2 more wheels, causing a significant amount more driveline loss, correct?

 

[BMW Killa]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (XenoLlama)

anyone have concrete details on the variable valve timing system VW uses?? i didnt even know vw had VVT!!!
diagrams, etc would be cool. i wonder how similar to VTEC it is.
Also whats the details on the syncro system used? is it a true LSD for the rear wheels and just mini slip for the front?

 

[ced]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (joshuajmurray)

Quote, originally posted by joshuajmurray »

The block is cast iron and the pistons are cast. Other then that your list is correct.

I was under the impression that this motor was a all new (not just a bored 2.8) all aluminum engine. Supposedly newly redesigned. I could swear that I read that when they first started talking about the R32.

 

[joshuajmurray]

Re: Is this the engine that performance companies will concentrate on? (ced)

Quote, originally posted by ced »

I was under the impression that this motor was a all new (not just a bored 2.8) all aluminum engine. Supposedly newly redesigned. I could swear that I read that when they first started talking about the R32.

Not having seen one here at the shop yet I really don't know for sure. I have my doubts is aluminum but I'd be happy to be wrong.