VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner

1 - 20 of 362 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
13 sec K-Jet turbo & now a bigger turbo build! Vids on page 5!!!

I'm in the process of building a k-jet turbo mk1 & have been gathering part's over a period of time. The car already has a Volvo 240 fuel dizzy & airflap assembly. I've also added in a permanent fuel pressure tester incl. a tap to test both the control & system pressures.
So far, I've got a saab T3 turbo, Mitubishi Galant turbo intercooler, audi turbo warm up reg, dual port dizzy assembly & a few other bit's incl. a callaway boost gauge & other bit's & pieces & also waiting on the rest of the conversion part's to arrive incl. manifold & A/F meter etc.
While waiting for these part's I decided to play around with some item's & tested the dizzy advance/retard pot.
I modified the pot & drilled out the retard stop & tested it. Under 10-15psi it didn't retard the ignition at all. At 20psi it retarded the ignition only a few degrees. Vacuum advance operated as normal.
I also fitted the audi warm up reg & tested it too. At hot idle without the vacuum hose fitted it would read 45psi (normal). As soon as I put the hose from the warm up reg barbed fitting to the throttle body full vacuum port it would run like a bag of crap & pull it down to 20-25psi! Even on the throttle body ported vacuum it would idle fine at 45psi, but as soon as you crack the throttle open alittle bit to pull vacuum it would again run bad & pull it down to 20-25psi!
If someone could please help, where about's do you plug the warm up reg. vacuum/boost reference into. Eg. throttle body ports, intake manifold to get the boost enrichment?
Also has anyone actually tested there ignition boost retard, as I'm interested in your result's to see if they actually do work.
What would be the approx power output of a k-jet turbo setup like this running 10psi?
Cheers
Tim.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,255 Posts
Can't help too much in this department, as I am doing a similar setup and will also need advice.. But I know that my 240T WUR needs a check valve inline to the TB port for boost enrichment, so maybe yours does as well. As far as boost retard, I have an MSD box for that. If theres anyone to ask about this stuff, its Peter Tong, he is the man with boosted cis.
Steve-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Re: (BSD)

Thank's Steve.
I'm already looking into it.
The only other thing is with a one way check valve is, will it trap the boost signal in the warmup reg too?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,880 Posts
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)

Quote, originally posted by Mk1-20V »
As soon as I put the hose from the warm up reg barbed fitting to the throttle body full vacuum port it would run like a bag of crap & pull it down to 20-25psi! Even on the throttle body ported vacuum it would idle fine at 45psi, but as soon as you crack the throttle open alittle bit to pull vacuum it would again run bad & pull it down to 20-25psi!

What port on the WUR are you hooking vacuum to? on the Audi 5000 turbo WUR's the one you wana use is on the side. If you apply vacuum to the port on the top it will reduce the control pressure and make the engine run rich.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)

Quote, originally posted by EuroKid83 »

What port on the WUR are you hooking vacuum to? on the Audi 5000 turbo WUR's the one you wana use is on the side. If you apply vacuum to the port on the top it will reduce the control pressure and make the engine run rich.

The hose is connected to the barbed fitting on the side of the warm up reg.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)

Here is my build thread from another forum
Over the last few month's I've been increasingly getting bored & needed something to do, other than help my friend's with there project's.
Which has led me to get motivated to continue carry on with phase #2 on the 76er, my daily since building it in May 08.

I've been gathering part's for the build over the last few month's for the turbo build up.
I thought I'd have a go at doing it "ol skool" style being a K-Jet turbo.
The spec is very basic & very, very mild. (only running 10psi, but maybe more if I can get the fueling right!) Nothing outrageous - Power expectation is unknown at this point. But hopefully it should be fun for awhile once sorted out.
Bone stock low compression "GX" "SLUG"
Autotech 270 Cam & Valve springs
Modified G60 intake
Ol Skool "BIG" Weber/Redline Throttle body I found. (This was a common mod to replace the stock twin throttle body in the 80's & can be a pain in the arse to find one)
Same stock Volvo K-Jet I've already fitted, except deleted Aux. air valve & Cold start valve
Audi 5000T boost referenced Warm up Regulator
Stock modified Distributor
ATP Cast 8V exhaust manifold
Saab T3 oil/watercooled turbo. V-Band 3" wastegate/dump pipe
Mitsubishi Galant VR4 Intercooler
Custom 2.5" exhaust & 2" intercooler piping
Tial 50mm BOV. (I'll be using this for my next project in the future.)
I'll also be fitting a Innovate Motorsport's wideband Air/Fuel meter/data logger to help me with the tuning side of thing's along with a modified Autometer fuel pressure gauge setup & also my favorite part. A genuine Callaway boost gauge, as fitted as part there Mk1 turbo kit's in the 80's!
I'll be tuning this myself, as there isn't a hell of alot of people out there who can successfully tune this sort of injection system, especially turbocharged too!
Once I'm happy with the tune, I'll put it on a dyno to get a idea of the power output.
I'm still waiting on some part's to arrive soon, but I'll post up what I've got & work done so far.
Saab Turbo & boost regulator (Just have to remove a broken bolt from the exhaust housing! DOH!) It's not a big turbo by all mean's (it's tiny to the other one I have here!), but it should be enough for now, until I get really power hungry. Only a matter of time! haha

New Engine Breather/catch can setup. I know. No more Powerade bottle! haha

Audi 5000T boost referenced Warm Up Regulator fitted

Autometer Fuel pressure tester I modified for testing purposes of the K-Jet, as this is how you basically tune a K-Jet system Note: the fuel tap to switch between "System" pressure & "Control" pressure

Weber "BIG" Throttle body (pics stolen off here. just waiting on this to arrive)


Test mounted up the intercooler to work out the bracket's & mounting after it was pressure tested. All good.

I placed it so it has full frontage coverage of the intercooler core & still has room to have the piping fitted. Once painted black, you won't even know it's there!

Had to relocate the Radiator back 1" & across to the driver's side 2" & then bend up a cover plate for the radiator core. Note: Underneath is is lined with some stick on foam to protect the rad. fins & keep it from moving.


Intercooler with the mounting bracket's welded on

It's not a very big intercooler, but it will do the job easy as. A friend fitted one of these to to his TRX CA18T & on 20psi it made 199rwkw's & didn't have any trouble keeping the intake charge cool as!

Assorted boost piping & oil supply & return braided hoses & fitting's.

Volvo "Cobra head" K-Jet airflap intake boot

Innovate Motorsport's wideband A/F meter & data logger equipment


Callway Boost Gauge. (I've had this for year's waiting for the perfect project!)

Stay tuned for more. Just waiting on part's now!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
More pics of your fuel pressure gauge setup pls! I've been wanting to do that exact thing to my car since I switched to CIS basic and pretty much have to check the pressures to tune it.
Seeing all this is making me want to go back to my 8v, that damn 16v is addicting though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Re: (NA 8v for life)

Quote, originally posted by NA 8v for life »
More pics of your fuel pressure gauge setup pls! I've been wanting to do that exact thing to my car since I switched to CIS basic and pretty much have to check the pressures to tune it.
Seeing all this is making me want to go back to my 8v, that damn 16v is addicting though.

G'day matey.
Basically, it's just an old Autometer fuel pressure gauge I had lying around from another project added with a T-piece & high pressure tap installed, along with couple of speedflow fitting's & a couple more speedflow fitting's brazed onto the old warm-up regulator hose ends
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,880 Posts
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)

Lookin good man, I'm gona follow this build. I'm starting a K-Jet turbo setup as well. Are you going to re-circulate your BOV? That intercooler is plenty big enough, the one I'm using is a little smaller than that but it fits very well.


Modified by EuroKid83 at 10:07 PM 8-28-2009
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)

Quote, originally posted by EuroKid83 »
Lookin good man, I'm gona follow this build. I'm starting a K-Jet turbo setup as well. Are you going to re-circulate your BOV? That intercooler is plenty big enough, the one I'm using is a little smaller than that but it fits very well.

Modified by EuroKid83 at 10:07 PM 8-28-2009

G'day EuroKid,
I don't plan on using a recirc BOV. I've ordered a Tial 50mm one, which I'll end up using on another project engine once I've had enough off this 8vT.
Alittle bit has been happening in the way of a good friend (tool maker) helping me out with a custom adjustable one way valve for the warm up reg boost reference.






Now still waiting on part's to arrive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,880 Posts
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)

Interesting. What is the purpose of the one-way valve?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)

Quote, originally posted by EuroKid83 »
Interesting. What is the purpose of the one-way valve?

My first post explains what happen's in regard to the boost/vacuum sensitive warm up reg.
The warm up reg. richen's the mixture with either boost or vacuum.
So at idle & part load (ie cruise), I have a rich mixture. If I eliminate the vacuum side of it with this one way valve, then I can have proper idle mixtures at approx 2.0% 14.5A/F & then with boost pressure, it richen's the mixture to suit.
I understand that the idle CO A/F will be alittle richer than this once it's tuned, but hopefully I can get it close to this & also richen the mixture to approx 12.5 A/F under full boost which will also give it reasonable fuel economy too.
I'll also put a tiny bleed hole after the valve so that boost pressure doesn't get trapped in the warm up reg & cause it to stay rich & come back to atmosphere pressure as it would normally see..
That's my theory. Hopefully it work's.
I just have to work out how to retard the timing properly, cause I've played around with the twin port dizzy incl. modifying the retard boss & it doesn't start to retard the timing till approx 20psi! So 10psi it is uselss & operates as normal. No good under boost!
I don't want to go to the trouble of fitting a $700+AUD MSD boost retard, as for another $500AUD I can go to a fully programmable stand alone ECU & get rid of the K-Jet all together, which I don't want to do.
That's too easy to do & I want to have a go at getting this old school system working properly




Modified by Mk1-20V at 2:16 PM 8-31-2009
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,880 Posts
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)

Interesting. I have a volvo 240 turbo WUR that I'm gona use. One thing I have noticed is that when you have vacuum it keeps the control pressure at 50 psi but as soon as the vacuum drops or goes away completely the control pressure drops to 20 psi. I'm not sure if the control pressure drops lower than 20 psi under boost but I'm going to do some more testing and see what happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)

Quote, originally posted by EuroKid83 »
Interesting. I have a volvo 240 turbo WUR that I'm gona use. One thing I have noticed is that when you have vacuum it keeps the control pressure at 50 psi but as soon as the vacuum drops or goes away completely the control pressure drops to 20 psi. I'm not sure if the control pressure drops lower than 20 psi under boost but I'm going to do some more testing and see what happens.

Mine is the complete opposite & I've double checked the bosch part #'s too!
When mine is at idle it's rich as (approx 20psi) full throttle/no vacuum it's back to normal (approx 50psi) & when you apply positive pressure, it's back to rich (approx 20psi).
With the reg not connected to anything & open to the atmosphere, it runs as normal & have noticed a increase in fuel ecomony too.
Hopefully this valve should sort it out. Ill get there in the end. I'm not chasing stupid power, just something different & hopefully fun for a while
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,880 Posts
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)

So how are things going with your build? I wana see some new pictures!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (EuroKid83)

Quote, originally posted by EuroKid83 »
So how are things going with your build? I wana see some new pictures!

Not much as been happening as of late, as I've been trying to get other job's done first. See below.
All my part's should arrive this week, but I'm booked out till the end of the month, with job's & weekends away to car event's.



Enough of that! Onto the intake.
I did get a chance to remove all the useless mounting boss' off the G60 intake I've got here & went & sandblasted it today at a friend's workshop. I also drilled & tapped one of the manifold fitting's with a plug, as I only need one port for the brake booster. It also came standard with a boost/vacuum fitting on the end, which will come in handy for the other component's
These intakes do look alot bigger, but these intakes aren't really suited to NA purposes. These are mainly for forced induction only, due to slow air speeds through the runner's on NA application's. You'd be better off with stock 8V K-Jet intake properly match ported & bottom 1/2 half of the runner ported/blended for a NA application.


Here you can clearly see how much larger the intake runners are compared to the standard 8V K-Jet intake of a GTI.
I'm also not running any cold start injector or a aux. bypass valve to simplify the setup & also less chances of boost leak's too!



Depending on my exhaust fab. mate, I'm planning on doing the conversion on the first weekend of Oct.
The plan is to take a Fri. off work & bang out the conversion on a Thurs. night, Fri. which should give me enough time to fit all the turbo gear up & then drop it off to my mate on the Sat & leave it with him to make the exhaust & intercooler piping & hopefully pick up the car on Mon. arvo, with everything done.
This way I'm not without a car for too long. Then I can spend the rest of my time playing around with the tuning side of things.



Modified by Mk1-20V at 9:02 PM 9-7-2009
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Re: (ShaggysGTI)

Quote, originally posted by ShaggysGTI »
Shouldn't the difference in size of runner change the intake velocity?

Your right in a way, but a larger intake runner/port for a given amount of air (how much the engine can actually take it), the slower the air speed becomes.
That's why I said it wouldn't be well suited to a NA application, but more suited to forced induction., as your actually forcing air into the intake/port, which can mean the bigger the better up to a certain amount. But the car will be lazier off boost though with this intake.
When it's used as NA, your engine is trying to suck air in (difference in pressure from the atmosphere & combustion chamber.
A Vortex member did a heap of testing on flow rates of different 8V intake's I think his name is Ny Fam?
Try & think of it like this.
Grab a foot garden hose & blow through it in one long breath & see how fast it comes out the other end.
Then try the same long breath into a Radiator hose & see how fast it comes out.
Same breath, same length hose, different size hoses & different pressures.
Same principles apply to the intake manifold/runner/ports.
Hope this makes some sort of sense
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
429 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Re: (Mk1-20V)

Another piece of the puzzle "finally" turned up today too!
Weber Throttle body & Redline adapter!
Needs only alittle clean up. Very happy with it.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,673 Posts
Re: K-Jet turbo setup (Mk1-20V)

why not just hook the vaccume reference line pre TB so it doesn't ever get vaccume?
Quote, originally posted by Mk1-20V »

My first post explains what happen's in regard to the boost/vacuum sensitive warm up reg.
The warm up reg. richen's the mixture with either boost or vacuum.
So at idle & part load (ie cruise), I have a rich mixture. If I eliminate the vacuum side of it with this one way valve, then I can have proper idle mixtures at approx 2.0% 14.5A/F & then with boost pressure, it richen's the mixture to suit.
I understand that the idle CO A/F will be alittle richer than this once it's tuned, but hopefully I can get it close to this & also richen the mixture to approx 12.5 A/F under full boost which will also give it reasonable fuel economy too.
I'll also put a tiny bleed hole after the valve so that boost pressure doesn't get trapped in the warm up reg & cause it to stay rich & come back to atmosphere pressure as it would normally see..
That's my theory. Hopefully it work's.
I just have to work out how to retard the timing properly, cause I've played around with the twin port dizzy incl. modifying the retard boss & it doesn't start to retard the timing till approx 20psi! So 10psi it is uselss & operates as normal. No good under boost!
I don't want to go to the trouble of fitting a $700+AUD MSD boost retard, as for another $500AUD I can go to a fully programmable stand alone ECU & get rid of the K-Jet all together, which I don't want to do.
That's too easy to do & I want to have a go at getting this old school system working properly
Modified by Mk1-20V at 2:16 PM 8-31-2009
 
1 - 20 of 362 Posts
Top