[ajcantero]

Hello all. I’m getting a set of Koni Yellows installed tomorrow and am wondering if you all could recommend a setting for me to have them set at? I am thinking half way between firmest and softest but I would like your input. My car is a daily driver. I live in Phoenix, AZ so the roads are pretty good here. With that being said, I like to go up north on the weekend and carve the canyons in the twisties. I like a good firm solid ride feel but I don’t want to chip a tooth on the occasional bump in the road.

What are your guys recommendations? Sorry if I’m being kinda vague in what I like as a daily driver, if you have any additional questions just ask.

Thanks again!


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[Thy_Harrowing]

Our use cases sound pretty similar... my car is a daily driver but a very spiritedly driven one, love the twisties and driving her hard. I also have a high tolerance for stiffness. That being said, Koni yellows are quite on the stiff side, in general, and I have them only like 1/3 of a turn from full soft - my approach was going to be to start softer and increase firmness as I deemed it necessary - and I never bothered to set them any stiffer because even at an almost full soft setting the are quite stiff and practically crash over bumps. I'm not saying the ride is straight-up bad, its totally tolerable, and it's only on sharp bumps that it's pretty noticeably stiff (it rolls over mild bumps fine), but I did not see any need to stiffen it any more. It'd probably get to be too much at that point and, besides, the car already handles like an absolute fkin dream on the twisties (although I may have a good deal more suspension mods than you do that make a good part of that difference).

 

[MMeachGLI]

More stiff in the rear and softer up front. Depends on what you’re doing too.


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[Thy_Harrowing]

Something else I should add. Ride quality doesn't just come down to the damping setting of your struts/shocks. Two examples of things that are FAAAAR more significant of an impact on ride quality is that your shocks/struts and springs have a well matched spring rate. You won't find a truly well matched spring rate with any combination of your typical shocks/struts and separately sold springs on the market. To get a truly well matched set with proper spring rate you gotta pay to play... companies with matched sets like MSS come to mind. The second thing that is HUGE is that when you lower the car you must get adjustable length end links and you MUST install them at curb weight. If you aren't going all that low and you can squeak by with using the OEM non-adjustable end links OR if you get adjustables but don't install them properly at curb weight you are putting preload on the suspension (a pre-established static twisting force on the across the sway bar) and it will significantly hamper ride quality. Not so many people are aware of this. Can't tell you how many people I know who install adjustable end links with suspension hanging...

 

[ajcantero]

Something else I should add. Ride quality doesn't just come down to the damping setting of your struts/shocks. Two examples of things that are FAAAAR more significant of an impact on ride quality is that your shocks/struts and springs have a well matched spring rate. You won't find a truly well matched spring rate with any combination of your typical shocks/struts and separately sold springs on the market. To get a truly well matched set with proper spring rate you gotta pay to play... companies with matched sets like MSS come to mind. The second thing that is HUGE is that when you lower the car you must get adjustable length end links and you MUST install them at curb weight. If you aren't going all that low and you can squeak by with using the OEM non-adjustable end links OR if you get adjustables but don't install them properly at curb weight you are putting preload on the suspension (a pre-established static twisting force on the across the sway bar) and it will significantly hamper ride quality. Not so many people are aware of this. Can't tell you how many people I know who install adjustable end links with suspension hanging...

Thanks for the quick responses! You brought up another point/question I had. My GLi is a 2014 with 130k on it(yes, I know. I drive a lot). With my Koni install they are also replacing the strut mounts and end links with OEM parts. Is OEM strut mounts and end links the way to go? I would have thought, like you said, that I would have at least been told to get aftermarket end links.

Also, something to add is that I already have VWR springs and front and rear H&R sway bars...

And from what I can gather you are suggesting that I don’t go halfway between soft and full hard? I should stay closer to the full soft side of things? Like you I am not afraid of a firm ride, I would much rather it be firm than soft and bouncy.

Thanks again for the quick response!!!



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[Thy_Harrowing]

Thanks for the quick responses! You brought up another point/question I had. My GLi is a 2014 with 130k on it(yes, I know. I drive a lot). With my Koni install they are also replacing the strut mounts and end links with OEM parts. Is OEM strut mounts and end links the way to go? I would have thought, like you said, that I would have at least been told to get aftermarket end links.

Also, something to add is that I already have VWR springs and front and rear H&R sway bars...

And from what I can gather you are suggesting that I don’t go halfway between soft and full hard? I should stay closer to the full soft side of things? Like you I am not afraid of a firm ride, I would much rather it be firm than soft and bouncy.

Thanks again for the quick response!!!



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You'll be fine with OEM strut mounts but you if you want to firm things up then you could certainly get 034 street density strut mounts which are cost basically the same as OEM strut mounts (they are in fact OEM strut mounts but modified to be stiffer just like all 034 density line products). I have them with my Koni yellows and have no complaints. They MUST be installed with a certain orientation though so make sure you go to a good shop that does aftermarket work on VW/Audi OFTEN or they will probably fk that part up. Best way to know if they didn't orient the strut mounts correctly is you'll have a nice clunk noise when you turn the steering wheel left to right even while stationary. Way to many people over look that detail of the install.

As for end links... you should absolutely get adjustable end links. Don't let that shop try to install OEM end links, you're ride quality WILL suffer because it WILL cause preload as described in my previous message. There are a number of options for adjustable end links. 034 has excellent ones but they are expensive and use a spherical bearing type that requires occasional lubing or it will be noisy (its more intended as a track-car specific end link I think). You'd probably be better off getting Whiteline or SuperPro or ECS end links to name a few. I've heard Whiteline products quality has suffered in recent years as compared to before (that's just a rumor I don't know if it is true) but I didn't wanna take my chances so I went with SuperPro. They are one of the most affordable options, have an excellent warranty, and do the job. I've put my suspension through hell and they haven't had any issues so that'd be my recommendation for end links. Both front and rear.

As for how to set your struts/shocks... trust me, even at full soft Koni yellows are far from bouncy. The guy above me was right about the rear and I forgot to mention that in my first answer. Basically, my recommendation is to set the front to at MOST 1 turn away from full soft and set the rear more towards the stiff side. I think I set my rears to 3/4 of the way to full stiff and it works for me. I wouldn't want the car to be much stiffer even with my high tolerance for stiffness.

 

[Thy_Harrowing]

Oh and btw what size are your sway bars and what are they set at? Any other suspension or subframe mods?

 

[ajcantero]

Awesome, that’s all good to know. I’m pretty much a complete knob when it comes to suspension...I also have a dogbone mount. I can’t off the top of my head remember the mm of my sway bars.


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[ajcantero]

I’ll probably do exactly what you have mentioned. I will have the rear end set a bit firmer than the front. Nothing more than a complete turn from full soft.


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[Thy_Harrowing]

Let me know what sizes they are if you get a chance. There's a lot of misleading information about sway bars and handling out there and a lot of people get wrapped up in misunderstandings as a result. Chances are unless you got some wildly different sized sway bars then you're fine but I've seen some pretty crazy setups run by people who don't know much about suspension and just went off of what they read somewhere (or more often a misinterpretation of what they read somewhere). My personal favorite is people who subscribe to the good ole 'run a real thick bar in the rear and much thinner up front to get rid of understeer" and then some dudes get to thinking 'oh if a thick rear bar and thin front bar gets rid of the factory understeer tendency then I'll just delete my front sway bar to get even less understeer!".... No, just, no haha. Swear to God I've seen people insist on that. Anyway, I'm going down a rabbit hole with that... let me dial it back; point is there are a lot of different setups that can be run based on intended use of car and desired handling characteristics so what you read somewhere or are told be someone about how they set theirs up can be different from what you want for your preferences and that takes knowing a lot of specifics.

As for the subframe, do you have a dogbone mount pendulum bar or a dogbone mount itself (the puck). What brand, just curious? Also, you should probably upgrade the engine and trans mounts. For a daily driver the 034 street density are a good option and one of the most affordable. They are maybe a tad softer than I'd like but still much, much stiffer and noticeably better than stock. I wish they were just a bit stiffer by maybe 10% but I probably wouldn't go so far as to get the track density mounts for my daily. The reason you'll want those upgraded mounts, aside from their usual benefits, is particularly because with a dogbone upgrade you're now stiffening it up down there and removing what used to be a major source of vibration absorption/dampening before you did the upgrade... and vibrations tend to follow what I'd describe as "the path of least resistance", essentially meaning they vibrations are going to attack your weak OEM trans mount (and to a lesser extent the engine mount) now that you have the dogbone mount, probably reducing their life. I don't imagine it'd be by a huge margin but it's worth mentioning. Considering how affordable the 034 density line mounts are I'd just get them sooner than later. They totally transform the car. If you have a sharp ear you'll even notice a little bit of a rawer, angrier tone from your engine on heavy acceleration. That's just what happens when you get rid of a source of serious dampening like that voided OEM engine mount.

 

[ajcantero]

I am pretty sure the sways are the same mm front and rear and I want to say they are either 24 or 26mm, does that make sense? And for the dog bone mount it is just the puck. Recently I have thought that I should upgrade my engine and tranny mounts but I just have to do this all in stages for financial reasons. With that being said, I think those will be my next upgrade. My only problem with upgrading those mounts is I do not want vibrations. Now that, I am picky about. Haha


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[Thy_Harrowing]

Yeah that makes sense, in either case it's not anything extreme so it wouldn't lead to really unpredictable characteristics. If you like how the car behaves then that's what matters. If, on the other hand, when you push it to the limit there's some behavior you want to alter then we can talk particulars. What tires do you have btw?

Is it the upper and lower dogbone puck or just the lower? If you're picky about NVH then get the 034 street density engine/trans mounts I mentioned for sure. They're probably the softest offering out there but still get the job done. I got them because, like you, I was really, really picky about noises and vibrations in my cabin. Believe it or not I've practically stopped caring. I didn't ever think the day would come (I used to be so anal about noises I'd hunt any noise I heard while driving down and use foam tape or dynamat where applicable to get rid of it) but even as extreme as I was I came to stop caring about them eventually. You'll notice some increase in vibration from any upgraded mounts but far less with the those modest 034 street density mounts and certainly no more difference then the difference you probably initially had when you upgraded the dogbone mounts; dogbone mount upgrades are much more harsh then engine/trans mounts. The only possible exception is if you got a soft lower puck like the HPA red and did not upgrade the upper puck. In that case the difference when you upgrade the motor/trans mounts will probably be roughly on par with the difference you noticed when you upgraded the dogbone but if you have both the pucks replaced for the subframe then that will definitely have had more of an impact than the engine/trans mounts will... Unless the soft OEM engine/trans mounts are really filtering out a lot of the NVH that would normally occur from the dogbone upgrades. I'm not entirely sure on that since I did my dogbone upgrade after my engine/trans mounts. If you do it in that order the dogbone upgrade absolutely produces way more NVH. It was a night and day difference in NVH but it still is far from unacceptable. I'd still rank my car totally DD friendly and totally tolerable. Surprisingly so actually considering how many changes there are. It's a good balance.

 

[ajcantero]

I will keep all of that in mind. Thank you soooo much for all the useful information and insight!


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[ajcantero]

You'll be fine with OEM strut mounts but you if you want to firm things up then you could certainly get 034 street density strut mounts which are cost basically the same as OEM strut mounts (they are in fact OEM strut mounts but modified to be stiffer just like all 034 density line products). I have them with my Koni yellows and have no complaints. They MUST be installed with a certain orientation though so make sure you go to a good shop that does aftermarket work on VW/Audi OFTEN or they will probably fk that part up. Best way to know if they didn't orient the strut mounts correctly is you'll have a nice clunk noise when you turn the steering wheel left to right even while stationary. Way to many people over look that detail of the install.

As for end links... you should absolutely get adjustable end links. Don't let that shop try to install OEM end links, you're ride quality WILL suffer because it WILL cause preload as described in my previous message. There are a number of options for adjustable end links. 034 has excellent ones but they are expensive and use a spherical bearing type that requires occasional lubing or it will be noisy (its more intended as a track-car specific end link I think). You'd probably be better off getting Whiteline or SuperPro or ECS end links to name a few. I've heard Whiteline products quality has suffered in recent years as compared to before (that's just a rumor I don't know if it is true) but I didn't wanna take my chances so I went with SuperPro. They are one of the most affordable options, have an excellent warranty, and do the job. I've put my suspension through hell and they haven't had any issues so that'd be my recommendation for end links. Both front and rear.

As for how to set your struts/shocks... trust me, even at full soft Koni yellows are far from bouncy. The guy above me was right about the rear and I forgot to mention that in my first answer. Basically, my recommendation is to set the front to at MOST 1 turn away from full soft and set the rear more towards the stiff side. I think I set my rears to 3/4 of the way to full stiff and it works for me. I wouldn't want the car to be much stiffer even with my high tolerance for stiffness.

So I just realized(while I’m waiting here) they are NOT replacing the strut mounts, just the strut bearings...is it ok that I’ll be using the same mounts? I can’t tell them to replace them now, it would have to be on my next paycheck or two because I’m maxed out with the amount of money I am spending for this install.

 

[Thy_Harrowing]

So I just realized(while I’m waiting here) they are NOT replacing the strut mounts, just the strut bearings...is it ok that I’ll be using the same mounts? I can’t tell them to replace them now, it would have to be on my next paycheck or two because I’m maxed out with the amount of money I am spending for this install.

Yeah I mean it's fine it's just one of those things where 'while they're in there' it's best to change the mounts too. They will wear out eventually and get noisy.

How many miles on the current mounts? As long as they are in fine shape now and don't have a ton of miles on them already it's fine. Koni yellows (and most similar very sporty setups) aren't really intended to last longer than 40K miles anyway so hopefully the OEM mounts don't get beat up too fast and you can just upgrade them at the time you pull your Konis out.

 

[ajcantero]

Yeah I mean it's fine it's just one of those things where 'while they're in there' it's best to change the mounts too. They will wear out eventually and get noisy.

How many miles on the current mounts? As long as they are in fine shape now and don't have a ton of miles on them already it's fine. Koni yellows (and most similar very sporty setups) aren't really intended to last longer than 40K miles anyway so hopefully the OEM mounts don't get beat up too fast and you can just upgrade them at the time you pull your Konis out.

That’s the thing, I have 130,000 miles on my car. But like I said, I couldn’t have afforded to upgrade them now anyways. So it will be something on my next list of things to do.

 

[Thy_Harrowing]

Was it a money thing from the start or was the shop not gonna replace them unless you said something. I hope this shop is decent b/c if the weren’t gonna replace your 130k old strut mounts and were gonna try to get you to put use OEM end links I’m starting to doubt them.

 

[ajcantero]

Was it a money thing from the start or was the shop not gonna replace them unless you said something. I hope this shop is decent b/c if the weren’t gonna replace your 130k old strut mounts and were gonna try to get you to put use OEM end links I’m starting to doubt them.

When I originally called for the quote and they sent it to me it was for OEM end links and OEM bearings. Nothing was mentioned about strut mounts. I'm not sure they knew how many miles I had on my car at the time of the quote though. When most people hear of a car thats only 3 1/2 years old they wouldn't guess it had 130k on it. But yea, they never asked or suggested.

I feel good about the shop though. They have done everything that I have listed in my signature at the bottom minus the intercooler and intake, I did the intake myself and the intercooler with a friend. And everything has worked great, so I do trust them, I just wish they would have mentioned strut mounts. I would have postponed the install of my Koni's until my next paycheck and got the new mounts installed also.

On another note...I officially have the Yellows on my car! I absolutely LOVE them. The ride is noticeably firmer and more of a "planted" feeling just driving down the road. Due to rush hour on the way home I was never really able to corner hard but I imagine they will be great. This coming weekend I think a trip to the mountains is in order! haha

 

[Thy_Harrowing]

Yeah that's true, you've really piled on the miles in a short span. Your commute must suck.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it already, have fun on the twisties!! If you haven't already don't forget to get some good rubber on there. A cars handling due to suspension upgrades is only as good as the tires allow it to be. If you're in the market for new tires I would wholeheartedly recommend the BFG Sport Comp 2. I'm certain you can't find a better tire for the price, they are absolutely exceptional and I really don't know how they are priced as well as they are considering they're better than plenty of tires that are quite a bit more.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions about anything.

 

[ajcantero]

Yeah that's true, you've really piled on the miles in a short span. Your commute must suck.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it already, have fun on the twisties!! If you haven't already don't forget to get some good rubber on there. A cars handling due to suspension upgrades is only as good as the tires allow it to be. If you're in the market for new tires I would wholeheartedly recommend the BFG Sport Comp 2. I'm certain you can't find a better tire for the price, they are absolutely exceptional and I really don't know how they are priced as well as they are considering they're better than plenty of tires that are quite a bit more.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions about anything.

That’s funny...I’m currently running Comp 2’s. I love them!