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Agree or disagree? Toyota wants to focus on 'price' over 'range' in their EVs...

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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Toyota has been dragging its feet related to electric cars for some time. It's the world leader when it comes to hybrids, and it offers a few plug-in hybrid electric cars. However, in terms of a fully electric car, Toyota has been notably absent since the early Tesla-powered RAV4 EV.
Now, the automaker, like most others, is beginning to move forward, albeit slowly. As Toyota and its executives continue to comment on EVs, there are always different excuses about why the brand hasn't embraced electrification, and what its plans may look like going forward.
A recent report by Green Car Reports points out that Toyota's electric cars will come after most rivals'. In addition, they're not going to have the electric range that's found in many of today's EVs, and nothing like that of Tesla or Lucid. However, Toyota says they will be affordable, and the company believes that's the key.
Toyota Motor North America VP for product planning and strategy Cooper Ericksen shared with the publication:
“Nothing happens until you sell a car’ is an expression we have internally. To have a positive impact on the environment, you must sell a high volume of cars...so it’s really important that the price point is such that we can make an actual business model out of it.”
At first glance, hardcore EV fans are probably already "mad" at Toyota once again. However, there is definitely a case to be made for not hauling a huge and expensive battery around if you don't need it. There's also a case against huge, sporty, super-quick, and very expensive EVs, which really only allow the wealthy to join the revolution.

That said, perhaps it makes the most sense for Toyota to offer base models of vehicles with smaller batteries and minimal range so that people can afford them. However, it would be arguably wise for Toyota to also offer longer-range options for people who need it.
Otherwise, we may see exactly what we've seen in the past. Rather than Toyota selling more EVs due to the lower price, it may not sell many since the low range turns people off. In many cases, whether shoppers need a longer range EV or not, they're still looking at those range estimates as part of the shopping process.
Some folks argue that legacy automakers have produced EVs with the intent to "not sell" them. If Toyota doesn't want to embrace EVs, and wants to prove that people won't buy them, all it has to do is offer EVs no one will buy, and then it can discontinue them as other brands have in the past.
Ericksen continued:
“The bottom line is, over time we view EV range similar to horsepower. People who are affluent and can afford a really expensive vehicle can afford a lot of horsepower.”
“Batteries are expensive, and the bigger you make the battery, the more expensive it is. So the trick, I think long-term is not all about range, range, range; the trick is matching the range and the price point to what the consumer can afford.”
“And as people become more accustomed to operating an EV I think the anxiety over range is going to dissipate."
Green Car Reports points to multiple surveys and studies that all but prove people don't buy EVs with minimal range. Moreover, those who do get an EV with less the 200 miles of EPA-rated range aren't as satisfied as those with longer-range electric cars.
To be clear, Toyota hasn't specified a range or price goal. Instead, it says it wants to try to offer EVs that have the best balance of range and price. This way, the average person will be able to get into an EV they can afford. For reference, the brand's upcoming bZ4X will have about 250 miles of range. However, Ericksen says 400 to 500 miles of range for a luxury EV from Lexus is a goal.
That said, when Ericksen actually talked about a "minimal" range goal, he said:
“But the low end to me is the more curious number. What's the lowest number that you can put out there that achieves the affordability and the use case for that customer?”
“I think we have some examples in the market over the past five years or so that we can learn from. It's something we're going to have to figure out because it has a huge impact on resources.”
If Toyota is willing to go back as far as five years to figure out what might be the best range for its future electric cars, it may be in for a big surprise. EVs have come a long way in the last five years, and rivals are going to keep pushing the envelope while Toyota moves slowly.
Check out Green Car Reports' full article by following the source link below. Then, scroll down to our popular comment section and start a healthy conversation about this topic. What are your thoughts?
Insideevs

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It's really simple... this should be the goal for non-luxury brands:
  • 200 miles for $20k
  • 300 miles for $30k
  • 400 miles for $40k
  • 500 miles for $50k
This should be the goal for everyone. Right now, we are at about 200 miles for $35k (e.g. Bolt, Kona) or 250 miles for $45k (e.g. ID.4, Mach E). Tesla Model 3 is slightly ahead of the curve at 300 miles for $45k.

I don't really know what Toyota is saying because the article never gave the range number that Toyota thinks is "reasonable". But if Toyota is targeting less than 200/$20k or 300/$30k in 3 years time, then the board should just take Toyoda-san out to the woods now and shoot his anti-EV ass and be done with it.
 

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It's really simple... this should be the goal for non-luxury brands:
  • 200 miles for $20k
  • 300 miles for $30k
  • 400 miles for $40k
  • 500 miles for $50k
This should be the goal for everyone. Right now, we are at about 200 miles for $35k (e.g. Bolt, Kona) or 250 miles for $45k (e.g. ID.4, Mach E). Tesla Model 3 is slightly ahead of the curve at 300 miles for $45k.

I don't really know what Toyota is saying because the article never gave the range number that Toyota thinks is "reasonable". But if Toyota is targeting less than 200/$20k or 300/$30k in 3 years time, then the board should just take Toyoda-san out to the woods now and shoot his anti-EV ass and be done with it.
This is very classist. Canceled.


















:LOL:
 

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It's really simple... this should be the goal for non-luxury brands:
  • 200 miles for $20k
  • 300 miles for $30k
  • 400 miles for $40k
  • 500 miles for $50
this would work for me. If it can’t do 300+ in one day then it can’t do one of my main road trips. And I don’t want to always bet on a charger or stopping for a meal while it charges. Between 300 for 30k and 400 for 40k is my car which can eke out 400 for 34k. And it’s got imo lots of nice stuff but it’s not a “luxury” brand.
 

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Is there an ICE option where I can travel unlimited miles with brief refills? 😂
 

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This should be the goal for everyone. Right now, we are at about 200 miles for $35k (e.g. Bolt, Kona) or 250 miles for $45k (e.g. ID.4, Mach E). T
The Bolt is rated at 258, not 200. Mine gets 300* miles when it's not freezing out (220 when it is) and only cost $25k new. So your goal is quite realistic. And 200 miles in a basic car is plenty for most day to day use.

*When we are driving, we tend to get 4.8 miles per kWh, which, with a 66 kWh battery equals 316 miles of real world range. In the winter that drops to ~3.4 miles per kWH.
 

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I don't have a problem with what Toyota is saying.

400 miles for $35k would be ideal IMO.

I don't think we are too far off that goal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
It's really simple... this should be the goal for non-luxury brands:
  • 200 miles for $20k
  • 300 miles for $30k
  • 400 miles for $40k
  • 500 miles for $50k
😂 I get 240 miles for $80K...so I got ripped off. Thanks, Obama!

This is very classist. Canceled.
Yup, living Fakerich gets really expensive.
 

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I think this strategy works out well to differentiate themselves. Chinese market cars essentially do this already (low range, low price), as does the Leaf, but nobody wants them right now due to range anxiety. But when the consumer demand increases, I can see the Chinese cars eating everyone's lunch if they decide to export, and Toyota if they follow through.
 

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This is relevant to me. If/when the Yaris ever dies, I would like to replace it with either a fun non-lux EV city car like the Honda E (the $20k/200-mile range option proposed above would be good) or with a normal-looking PHEV along the lines of a Corolla Hatchback Prime that could go 30-40 miles on electric for commuting and the rest on gas like if we wanted to take it on a trip. I want whatever it is to be more like a normal car and not like a Bolt, Volt or Leaf which all have a vague air of Spark- and Aveo-ness about them (IMO, don't hate me, but I have no desire for any of those, can't really explain it).

I am not interested AT ALL in any of the $40-60k EVs like Teslas and Mach Es that are trying to replace big/traditional cars but are hugely compromised as the main/do-it-all vehicle (IMO) and which cost too much given how quickly the technology is improving.

I want something small and fun like this, like make a RWD EV with some Starlet styling cues for me to bomb around in
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This is relevant to me. If/when the Yaris ever dies, I would like to replace it with either a fun non-lux EV city car like the Honda E (the $20k/200-mile range option proposed above would be good) or with a normal-looking PHEV along the lines of a Corolla Hatchback Prime that could go 30-40 miles on electric for commuting and the rest on gas like if we wanted to take it on a trip. I want whatever it is to be more like a normal car and not like a Bolt, Volt or Leaf which all have a vague air of Spark- and Aveo-ness about them (IMO, don't hate me, but I have no desire for any of those, can't really explain it).

I am not interested AT ALL in any of the $40-60k EVs like Teslas and Mach Es that are trying to replace big/traditional cars but are hugely compromised as the main/do-it-all vehicle (IMO) and which cost too much given how quickly the technology is improving.

I want something small and fun like this, like make a RWD EV with some Starlet styling cues for me to bomb around in View attachment 137366
Closest thing to that is a Bolt. Especially if the tax credit gets extended/increased, it will be a $20k small hatchback with 200+ miles of range.
 

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Closest thing to that is a Bolt. Especially if the tax credit gets extended/increased, it will be a $20k small hatchback with 200+ miles of range.
Logically, I guess, yeah — but then I look at it and don't want it at all ... just can't get excited about it. It's like a combo of the Ford C-Max and a Spark. Meh central.

I want something low and small and fun
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The Bolt is rated at 258, not 200. Mine gets 300* miles when it's not freezing out (220 when it is) and only cost $25k new. So your goal is quite realistic. And 200 miles in a basic car is plenty for most day to day use.

*When we are driving, we tend to get 4.8 miles per kWh, which, with a 66 kWh battery equals 316 miles of real world range. In the winter that drops to ~3.4 miles per kWH.
Range also varies widely with EVs though. We don't get anywhere near Chris's range on our Bolt. We don't even get near GM's rated range. Our Bolt is effectively a 170 mile car, averaged for summer and winter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well, Carlos Ghosn also thought affordability was more important than the range too. I don't know if Nissan thinks otherwise now that he's gone.

LOL WATT? Carlos Ghosn...
 

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Toyota should make a car like the Nissan Versa of yesteryear. Stupid cheap, everything you need, nothing you don't, but make it an EV. Sell it for less than $20,000 with a range of 200+.
 
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