[GTI's]

VW 508.00/509.00 This specification combo (508.00 for petrol, 509.00 for diesel) requires a 0W20 viscosity, fuel economy oil with long life additives. These specifications are NOT backward compatible with the eariler VW specifications So not for use in the MK5

 

[Marek K]

VW 508.00/509.00 [...] not for use in the MK5

I think some (not me) would disagree with you...

 

[cylinder head o7k]

Wow. Just like a real conversation!

ya super amazing really totally real conversation here. i can only imagine everyone sitting around a table having a beer and talking about their favorite oil and how it makes them feel.

 

[Syndicated]

Oil is oil and we all know why VW changed their oil specs.
It is because the thinner oil VW has switched to recommending, allows them to claim high gasoline mileage.
And that has cause premature failure of any place the oil is not under pressure, like chain slippers, camshaft lobes, etc.
The best way is to use better oil than VW is recommending, which is thicker viscosity, not 502.00 spec.
They are NOT recommending the best oil at all, but the oil with the highest mileage rating capability.
Nothing in the hardware has changed, so there is no good new reason for the new oil spec.

What? VW/Audi has NEVER recommended putting a newer oil type in an older car… all the shop manuals say “new oil not backwards compatible” … kind of like the coolant g12 -> g13 -> g12evo, they are not backwards compatible with each other.

Where have you ever seen VW/Audi recommend putting 0W20 in ANY engine older than the EA888 gen.3?

I’ve worked as a tech at Audi for a while, and not once during any of my 1000’s of services have I ever seen anyone in any capacity ever put 0W20 in anything older than an EA888 gen.3….

I think you need to do some research bubby, you are all sorts of twisted.

 

[Marek K]

… kind of like the coolant g12 -> g13 -> g12evo, they are not backwards compatible with each other.

While I agree with you regarding engine oil, what you say regarding VW coolants isn't true. Generally, at least for the past 20+ years, each newer VW coolant is backwards compatible with older coolants. They have to be, since the older coolants are systematically discontinued.

There's a recent VW TSB about that:

19-17-01 - Identifying and Mixing Volkswagen Engine Coolants (U.S. Only) (nhtsa.gov)

And here's the key chart from it:

However, what concerns me is two things. First, they're now waffling a bit on whether G13 is fully-compatible with the earlier coolants, particularly the G12+ (or G12++) that Mk5's came with. "Coolant becomes brown"? That would freak me out, knowing what happened when you mixed G12 with the blue G11. And "deterioration of corrosion protection"? I'm not sure how available any flavor of G12 is these days...

Second, what the hell is G12evo now? Is that going to become the 'standard" VW coolant now?

 

[Syndicated]

While I agree with you regarding engine oil, what you say regarding VW coolants isn't true. Generally, at least for the past 20+ years, each newer VW coolant is backwards compatible with older coolants. They have to be, since the older coolants are systematically discontinued.

There's a recent VW TSB about that:

19-17-01 - Identifying and Mixing Volkswagen Engine Coolants (U.S. Only) (nhtsa.gov)

And here's the key chart from it:

View attachment 225663

However, what concerns me is two things. First, they're now waffling a bit on whether G13 is fully-compatible with the earlier coolants, particularly the G12+ (or G12++) that Mk5's came with. "Coolant becomes brown"? That would freak me out, knowing what happened when you mixed G12 with the blue G11. And "deterioration of corrosion protection"? I'm not sure how available any flavor of G12 is these days...

Second, what the hell is G12evo now? Is that going to become the 'standard" VW coolant now?

First it went G11 -> G12 -> G13 -> G12evo.

VWoA does not discontinue coolants. I can still get G11, granted it may take a few days or weeks, however it is still being made … simply because the cars that require it … are still on the road somewhere in the world.

Mixing any coolant will give you a funky color … generally why it’s not recommended.

Each coolant has additives to give the engine that it is put the proper amount of corrosion protection based on it is cast (VW has some funky casts, such as a silicone aluminum bicarbonate baking soda cast) and each of these different blocks require a different type of coolant protection.

So, coming straight from ELSApro, no they are not backwards, forwards, or sideways compatible. If any other coolant is used it instantly voids that portion of the warranty.

 

[GTI's]

Fwiw

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10208466-0001.pdf

 

[Syndicated]

Fwiw

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10208466-0001.pdf

I understand this TSB exists, however I’m saying everything from ELSApro says to NOT mix coolant, and G12evo is NOT backwards compatible. If I’m wrong then I’m wrong, but as it stands I’m not taking the word of TSB when they change all the time. ELSApro is ALWAYS up to date.

 

[GTI's]

So VW is lying to everyone but people that use ELSApro .......... I see a class-action in their future.

 

[Syndicated]

So VW is lying to everyone but people that use ELSApro .......... I see a class-action in their future.

Not once have I

So VW is lying to everyone but people that use ELSApro .......... I see a class-action in their future.

Not once have I said VW is lying. I said ELSApro said not to mix coolants, and that G12evo is not backwards compatible.

If that has changed between when I left Audi and now then so be it, however when I left, ELSApro said they are not backwards compatible, and not to mix coolant.

Whatever you believe, believe it. I’m just following my last known knowledge on the fact.

 

[Marek K]

So, coming straight from ELSApro, no they are not backwards, forwards, or sideways compatible. If any other coolant is used it instantly voids that portion of the warranty.

Cite? That is, can you give us a direct quote that we can see?

Then why is it that VW's TB 19-17-01 said that they are backwards-compatible? Except for G-12 when it first came out with G-11 -- and that's the very reason that G-12+ was developed in about 2000... to be backwards-compatible with G-11. And all the information I've ever seen from VW is that every G- formulation since then has been backwards-compatible with all the previous versions.

I'm just not sure what's up now with G12evo...

 

[Syndicated]

Cite? That is, can you give us a direct quote that we can see?

Then why is it that VW's TB 19-17-01 said that they are backwards-compatible? Except for G-12 when it first came out with G-11 -- and that's the very reason that G-12+ was developed in about 2000... to be backwards-compatible with G-11. And all the information I've ever seen from VW is that every G- formulation since then has been backwards-compatible with all the previous versions.

I'm just not sure what's up now with G12evo...

Unfortunately, I no longer work at Audi so my Gecko id and my Audi login do not work, so I cannot prove my side.

As far as I know G12evo is just a new version of G13, but with better corrosion inhibitors.

It also came out around the time of the e-Tron so it probably has something to do with that.

You can try to call an Audi dealership near you, and ask if the coolants are backwards compatible, and see what they say.

Like I said, maybe they revised it, but I remember my last two jobs which were an engine on a 2021 Q7 (3.0 turbo) and an oil cooler on a 2018 Q5, and I had to use two different coolants, the G13 for the Q5, and the G12evo for the 3.0t. Those are what was pulled up in ETKA (parts catalog).

 

[GTI's]

Fwiw

Audi

Loading…

static.nhtsa.gov

 

[Syndicated]

Fwiw

Audi

Loading…

static.nhtsa.gov

Fantastic, you found a TSB that isn’t covered by any Audi warranty.

I’m sticking to what I read in ELSApro and all the classes I went to.

But hey, you do you boo.

 

[Marek K]

Fantastic, you found a TSB that isn’t covered by any Audi warranty.

But hey, you do you boo.

Absolutely no need to get nasty. Honestly.

I guess we may need to define what we mean by "backward compatible." The way I mean it, a newer coolant is backwards-compatible when it can be mixed with an older coolant that was originally filled in the vehicle, or that's currently in the vehicle.

I know what ETKA is, though I've never used it. So I don't know what they say, or how they say it.

I'm just saying that VW's and Audi's own official advice (see the TSBs that GTI's and I linked to) has consistently been that the newer coolants (G12+ and newer) are all backwards-compatible with older coolants.

I do see the bit in the VW TSB where it says this is for "nformation only" for warranty use, and in the Audi TSB where it says it's "not applicable to any Audi Warranty." I'm not sure what that's referring to, but I don't think any of us are worried about warranty work for Mk5's at this point. And I really don't think VW/Audi would officially state that mixing is OK, if it wasn't...

I just called my local VW part department (Mike Maroone VW in Colorado Springs). The parts guy confirmed that G13 and now G12evo are backwards-compatible with past coolants. In fact, he said that those are the only two types of VW/Audi coolants they currently sell. He added that these days, for warranty work, they only use G13 for 2015 diesel engines (for whatever reason). For everything else, they only sell G12evo now.

I've got about half a bottle of the VW G 012 A8FA4 on the garage shelf that I've used in (and VW dealers have been putting into) our two Mk5's for over a decade now...

...as well as a full bottle of G13. I think I'm just fine with those. If a shop or dealer puts in G12evo now, I think that would be fine too.

 

[GTI's]

I do see the bit in the VW TSB where it says this is for "nformation only" for warranty use, and in the Audi TSB where it says it's "not applicable to any Audi Warranty." I'm not sure what that's referring to, but I don't think any of us are worried about warranty work for Mk5's at this point. And I really don't think VW/Audi would officially state that mixing is OK, if it wasn't...

Some Tsb/Tb will have warranty claim info in that location so they, the dealer can possibly get paid for doing that Tsb. Other Tsb/Tb are as they state for info only no warranty( claim info). The coolant one is just that, info only and no warranty claim/ payment for just reading the Tsb about identifying coolant and what can and can not be used.

The same thing is written on the VW & Audi oil spec Tsb, info only no warranty, don't think that means if you used the correct weight and spec from that Tsb list for your VW and you have issues related to use of that oil you would void the warranty if you still had one, No, just meanings you can not claim anything from the info on the Tsb.

 

[Syndicated]

Absolutely no need to get nasty. Honestly.

I guess we may need to define what we mean by "backward compatible." The way I mean it, a newer coolant is backwards-compatible when it can be mixed with an older coolant that was originally filled in the vehicle, or that's currently in the vehicle.

I know what ETKA is, though I've never used it. So I don't know what they say, or how they say it.

I'm just saying that VW's and Audi's own official advice (see the TSBs that GTI's and I linked to) has consistently been that the newer coolants (G12+ and newer) are all backwards-compatible with older coolants.

I do see the bit in the VW TSB where it says this is for "nformation only" for warranty use, and in the Audi TSB where it says it's "not applicable to any Audi Warranty." I'm not sure what that's referring to, but I don't think any of us are worried about warranty work for Mk5's at this point. And I really don't think VW/Audi would officially state that mixing is OK, if it wasn't...

I just called my local VW part department (Mike Maroone VW in Colorado Springs). The parts guy confirmed that G13 and now G12evo are backwards-compatible with past coolants. In fact, he said that those are the only two types of VW/Audi coolants they currently sell. He added that these days, for warranty work, they only use G13 for 2015 diesel engines (for whatever reason). For everything else, they only sell G12evo now.

I've got about half a bottle of the VW G 012 A8FA4 on the garage shelf that I've used in (and VW dealers have been putting into) our two Mk5's for over a decade now...
View attachment 225905

...as well as a full bottle of G13. I think I'm just fine with those. If a shop or dealer puts in G12evo now, I think that would be fine too.

I’m not getting nasty by any means, I’m just trying to tell you that what I knew before I left Audi was that G12evo was not backwards compatible. As I’ve said multiple times, if that has changed, then it has changed.

Personally I would not mix coolants, and I would stick to what is called for on the reso bottle.

 

[-PLP-]

Nice, pointless discussion...
So where is the OP and his/her problem?

What is the outcome?

 

[GTI's]

Nice, pointless discussion...
So where is the OP and his/her problem?

What is the outcome?

Checked out pages ago, suspect Op filled it back up and drove it or perhaps got the correct tools to do the job and redid the oil & filter change and checked the old filter & oil and went down the road. Or maybe OP was pushing parts and now will respond with a post saying no it was not when Op reads this.

Surprised no one asked how the Dsg service went.

 

[Marek K]

Nice, pointless discussion...

Maybe... regarding whether we should be having it here. But as GTI's pointed out, OP seems to have quit this thread long ago (without telling us what the outcome was); so we naturally turned to other things. I'd actually prefer for this coolant discussion to be in its own thread, because I think it's critical for VWs...but we're already into this here...