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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox

Volkswagen sells a weatherstrip lubricant under part number G 052 172.A1 for maintaining the weatherstrip roof seals in the Eos and that part number is given in the Eos owners manual. Another member priced it at the VW dealer for $95 in a 30ML volume. It is a liquid form of DuPont Krytox, the DuPont equivalent part number is GPL 105 and it is sold in a minimum package of 0.5KG/1.1lb for $145 from Krytox Vendors. The 0.5kg bottle is about 8X the volume from the VW dealer. The Chemical Abstracts Index (CAS) name for Krytox fluorinated oils is oxirane trifluoro (trifluoromethyl)-homopolymer, and the CAS Registry Number is 60164-51-4.
Thanks to Speedster356 in Greece for the picture.

According to the MSDS sheet, its 100% Krytox


Dupont has just put out an interesting pdf that deals with Krytox as a long term solution for squeaks and rattles in automotive applications.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...1.pdf
There has been an update newsletter from DuPont dealing with the 100 series Krytox oils, specifically comparing the performance and durability of the auto industry standard GPL105 to thinner viscosity GPL104 and GPL103 versions.
http://www2.dupont.com/Lubrica...2.pdf
Volkswagen offers 3 versions of Krytox. The second part number is a 100ML aerosol spray version under part number G 052 172.A2 and after examining the MSDS sheets, it was possible to determine that there is no silicone present in the product, but of the 100ML volume, it is mostly propellants. You only get 5-7% Krytox by weight, but Krytox is very dense so you would end up with less than 5-7 ML if you calculated the content by volume. This part number appears to be a poor value.

Volkswagen also lists part number G 060 172.A3 which is a paste (grease) version in a tube. The DuPont Equivalent to this is GPL 205 and it is a 2 ounce/56.7 gram quantity. This version of Krytox is also well known by owners of Corvettes, as well as the Cadillac Allante with a removable hardtop. Krytox is the only product which can silence the squeaking problems in the weatherstrip as the chassis flexes against the removable hardtop in the Allante.
I purchased Krytox GPL 205 for $29 plus shipping from Darrel Kinkaid at THT Group Inc. His E-mail is [email protected] or 650-595-1112, extension 1. Unfortunately the price has now gone up over 30% to $38 for the 2 ounce tube. Its frustrating to see such rapid price increases, and a good incentive to look to other vendors.
Here's another affordable alternative. You can get GM part number 3634770 for $32.49 at GM parts Direct. Its worth reading their product description. After reviewing the MSDS sheet from GM, I was able to determine that this is the liquid Krytox GPL 105 which is an exact match to the VW part number G 052 172 A1 in the Eos owners manual at 1/3 of the price. The quantity listed on the label is 29ML. It has been mentioned that the liquid may be more difficult to apply precisely, and may be prone to unintentional spreading over time. So you may prefer the thicker GPL-205 grease instead of this.
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/

You can clearly see that the label lists the contents as "Oxirane" and the CAS registry number of 60164-51-4 (see top paragraph of this post for information on determining a chemical match). The liquid in the bottle is about the consistency of maple syrup. You can see it cost a little more at my GM dealer, and they had to order it anyway, so I just recommend ordering from the gmpartsdirect.com website.

There is a permeable applicator pad fixed to the top of the bottle to control flow which would remind you of a bingo marker. This pad and its white plastic mounting ring are easily removed from the translucent bottle for direct access to the liquid inside.

My contact at the GM dealer also got me the MSDS sheet which confirmed the GM 3634770 weatherstrip dressing is 100.0000% Krytox. Notice the CAS registry number I explained in the first paragraph.

To precisely apply the liquid Krytox GPL 105 oil, you might want to repackage into a squeeze bottle oil dispenser with a needle to reach into tight spots. There's many different styles available. When you are selecting a Luer needle, get the biggest possible. I recommend 14 gauge 1.5 inch length, 16 gauge is O.K., but don't go smaller (higher number i.e. 18, 20 gauge) than that.
http://jensenglobal.com/

Again here's the Krytox FAQ directly from DuPont to quickly make you aware of the chemical properties. Krytox is really an aerospace lubricant, use as a dressing/protectant is a secondary application.
http://www.dupont.com/lubricants/en/faqs.html
Here's an old interesting discussion from the Plymouth Prowler board in 2002 when some individual was selling GPL 205 for $20.70/2oz tube. The e-mail/group buy is no good anymore, but there is a highly in-depth technical discussion that's worth reading. Its a little alarming to me how quickly the price of Krytox has been increasing over such a short period of time.
http://www.prowleronline.com/u....html
If you read step 21 (scroll down) of this link, you can see a good idea of how to apply krytox paste to weatherstrip with a thin protective glove.
http://www.corvettemagazine.co...p.asp

Here's my tube of Krytox GPL205. Its working well on my non-Eos vehicles. Remember Krytox is primarily a lubricant so it can be used anywhere you would apply regular oils or greases. It is far superior to petroleum based lubricants in that it is very resistant to washoff from nautrally occuring solvents, and has a much slower evaporation rate, guards against corrosion better, is a better lubricant and is much cleaner. Your door and trunk hinges would be better protected with Krytox compared with, for example, white lithium grease.



Most auto manufacturers offer Krytox in some form or another to deal with squeaks and rattles. Here's an example from Saab, at least they don't try relabel it.





Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 5:57 PM 7-11-2007
 

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Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)

Thank You for your research and detailed information.
I have had my EOS 3 weeks. It's gotten its first two "baths" at the dealer. Once when I had the LoJack installed and the upholstery treated and once when a window wouldn't stay closed after the roof was closed.

I need to purchased something soon for the seals.
Maybe we are all a little paranoid?? My husband has driven a 2001 Corvette, with the removable top, for five years. He takes it to the local car wash and has never used any sealant on the weatherstripping. No Leaks, looks great !!
Are the EOS seals made of a different type of material?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (nette)

I guess the reason we have the top seal and weatherstrip issue under the microscope is because one owner noticed white spots appearing on his seals after a couple of rainstorms. So far it appears to be an isolated (or at least limited) problem. I'm thinking that particular Eos might be downwind of an industrial town or manufacturing facility, and the white spotting on the rubber is a result of the car being subject to excessive environmental fallout/pollutants. In any case, Krytox does not oxidize, its does not contain any volatile compounds that evaporate, and its very resistant to wash off from water or naturally occurring organic solvents. So treating your seals with Krytox would appear to create a rather robust environmental barrier. I'm still waiting on my order so I can post some original pictures.
To answer your question, the rubber seals have a coating applied to them in order to address a wind noise problem that delayed the release of the Eos by several months. So I would never try to aggressively scrub the seals or wash the car with any type of high pressure spray hose. Also, things like silicone tend to soften rubber and break down rubber (make it spongy) over a long time, and might cause this coating to de-laminate from the weatherstrip/seals. I believe the Eos owners manual specifically recommends against products containing silicone.
If anybody has an Eos owners manual and a good digital camera, It might not be a bad idea to post pictures of care/maintenance procedures and warnings about the top seals in this thread.


Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 10:43 AM 9-17-2006
 

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Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)

On my Eos are a several white spots visible. I can't get them off. I don't know how to remove it? I wil take a picture and post it. I wil look in the owners manual, if there is something to do about it. When I make the spot wet it's away, but when the water is dryed up you will see it.
I thinks it's the coating that becomes white when it comes in contact with water.

I have just send the pictures to my dealer. When I got an answer I wil post it.

Modified by bjorngra at 11:21 AM 9-18-2006


Modified by bjorngra at 12:56 PM 9-18-2006
 

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Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (bjorngra)

See the picture I've made today. This is the 1st time he gets wet by rain.

 

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Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (bjorngra)

great pics..i get the same white spots almost a fiber like thread that can be seen why the car is dry...lets find out and ge this taken care of
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (Domdog31)

Okay, back to my theory about excessive environmental fallout / pollution as a source for spotting on the rubber. Domdog31, you're in New Jersey which, lets face it, is heavily industrial and filthy so the potential for you to be on the receiving end of sulfur / acidic fallout is very high. I don't know about bjorngra in the Netherlands, any factories by you? Where's the prevailing winds coming from?
 

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Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)

I think it's not the pollution because I saw it after I washed the car with clear water. Before the were only a few very little spots. At the moment the dealer is investigate it. But I think that everyone should use original VW products. Perhaps is Krytox bad for the special coating on the seals? And erases the coating.
The strange thing is that it's not the whole seal thats get white.
I wil post the reaction of my dealer. The other Dutch member EVGUNST said:
The grainy texture can be solved by putting on a special VW-gel produced specially for the eos.
But I don't know if he tried it? And of it's working.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (bjorngra)

Quote, originally posted by bjorngra »
But I think that everyone should use original VW products. Perhaps is Krytox bad for the special coating on the seals? And erases the coating.

I fully appreciate a desire to maintain the Eos exactly per the manufacturers instructions (and recommend that approach)...there's nothing funnier than some of the posts you read where somebody thinks they know more than the auto manufacturer, but I'll explain the motivation behind my research which eventually became the top post in this thread.
My objective was to find out exactly what Volkswagen was selling for $95 as weatherstrip dressing, and find a less expensive source for the exact same substance, and that's what I've done. You can pay $95 for Krytox in a Volkswagen labeled container at the Volkswagen dealer, or you can pay $29 for Krytox in a DuPont labeled container from a 3rd party vendor...either way its the same stuff.
If you read the Krytox FAQ on the DuPont website (see top post), DuPont goes on at great lengths to explain how Krytox is chemically inert, non-reactive, and does not oxidize or break down. That would indicate there is no solvent characteristic to Krytox, so it would not attack the weatherstrip or the coating. Remember the principal application of Krytox is a lubricant. If you read the section about compatibility with seals it reads exactly....
"Is Krytox® compatible with various seal materials?
Krytox® is compatible with all seal materials. It is chemically inert."
Here's a translated discussion from a German board dealing with the new Beetle Cabriolet over a year ago. Apparently Krytox is also recommended by Volkswagen in that application as well. The discussion was about obtaining Krytox outside of Volkswagen. Apparently the Germans weren't interested in Volkswagens grotesquely overinflated price either. This was my source for the 3 different Volkswagen part numbers.
http://translate.google.com/tr...lr%3D



Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 5:36 PM 9-23-2006
 

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Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)

You're right. I'm sorry I did not read everything. So Krytox is the same as the stuff that VW is selling in theire own tube. Hmm.. I think VW is selling all accesoires with tripple prices. Thanks for your short explanation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Did somebody already used Krytox, and did it work to remove the white spots on the Eos?
 

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Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox

Adding in while my Eos is still a few months from production at least, I looked at the three Eos parked near my house after a few rainy weeks and I haven't seen similar white spots on the roof seals. However, I checked the inside of the inner door seals of my Audi A4 (2004 model) and I found some stains similar to the roof stains shown in the pictures posted above. I also found such stains on the wiondow seals of some cars (usually older cars with the softer window seals) parked in my street). To me, they look like the snow stains you get on leather shoes or the decoloring of some chocolate bars (usually the ones that went from hot to cold environment). This *could* (uniformed layman talking here) indicate that the stains might be excess "stuff" (for lack of better word) that the seal "sweats" out under certain conditions. Could those experiencing the stains please think about whether their cars were exposed to rapidly changing temperatures or other conditions that might have caused the seals to first slightly expand (not normal operational squeeze) and then contract. Just an uninformed thought.


Modified by JML at 4:40 AM 9-24-2006
 

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Re: Got it!! (Speedster356)

I bought a 8 onces tube of Krytox (GPL 205) for 125$ canadian. I've used it on my EOS. I'm waiting some rain to see the result. I had only few white spots on the seals. I suspect that it might be wax. When the dealer prepare the car, they probalby wax it...anyway, they waxed mine for sure. These white sopts probably come from the wax....food for thought anyway. Once I got the result I will post a comment.
 

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Re: Got it!! (Hotmoose)

Ok, when you brought it on didn't it disappear? I have also white spots, but it looks like they not getting more. My dealer is investigating it with the VW Import. 2WKs ago



Modified by bjorngra at 10:05 AM 10-3-2006
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Got it!! (bjorngra)

The top post has now been updated. I bought the GM weatherstrip dressing and traced the Chemical Abstracts Index number of 60164-51-4 to determine an exact match for Krytox GPL105/GM 3634770/VW G052 172 A1.
The liquid is silghtly easier to spread compared to the paste GPL-205 but they both will work just fine. It has been mentioned that the liquid may be more prone to unintentional spreading/leaching out compared to the paste GPL-205.
I knew the counterman at the GM dealer and paid a discounted price of $34.36 plus tax, but it is still cheaper at gmpartsdirect.com



Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:37 AM 10-12-2006
 

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Re: Got it!! (WolfsburgerMitFries)

Just an update on my part. I use Krytox GPL 205 and that work just fine. Little white spot disapeared , and I find that GPL 205 is easier to apply because its a grease, so no leak. I got also a liquid lubricant from PBR and used it on my other car, but the liquid tend to leak all over the place.
Bottom line, use whatever its best for you. For me I continue to use GPL 205 with a little paint brush
 

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Re: Got it!! (PanEuropean)

Yesterday I got the VW Lubricant from my dealer. Just made a picture of it.
I got it for FREE. It's guarantee they said.
I brought it on today. It's very simple. Just spray all the rubber seals. I half opend the roof
to spray the sides of the seals that are not visible from the outside.
De white spots are gone. I'l hope for a long time. The lubricant spray is almost empty. 100ml
I ask or I can get another one 'for free?".

 

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Re: Got it!! (Hotmoose)

Haven't got my EOS yet, so I can't comment on whether or not I have white spots yet.
The idea it may be caused by wax, or other protectant, sounds plausible. The white spots do look a bit like wax residue in the photo.
Have the cars with the spotting problem been through an automatic car wash that has a wax or clearcoat protectant cycle??
If wax is the culprit, the krytox grease may prevent the wax from adhering, and solve the problem.
hmmm??
 

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Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (WolfsburgerMitFries)

I have enjoyed reading the many posts on this subject. I have a seal lubricant/protector from BMW called Gummi-Pflege part # 82 14 9 407 015. Would someone please cross reference it to see if it is the same as the Krytox? It has no CAS number on it. It is in a 75ml tube with a foam applicator. Also on the tube is D-80788 Munchen and Tel. +89/3 1170 08. TIA
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Maintaing Eos top seals/weatherstrip with Krytox (vweosdriver)

The best way to see what your BMW part number contains would be to get a MSDS sheet from your BMW dealers parts counter.
It is a good idea to to still keep an eye out for alternative sources for Krytox, we may stumble on a cheaper source yet. I'm sure both BMW and Volvo have Krytox in some form, because they both offer convertibles, and now they both have RHT convertibles. I'll see what I can learn next time I'm at the BMW dealer...who also happens to be the VW dealer.
(minor edit - Michael)


Modified by PanEuropean at 4:19 PM 11-14-2006
 
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