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Can't believe that the Ford Focus SVT came in in first place and the Civic Si in second and that last but not least the 1.8 T GTI came in third.
At least they gave it props for having the best engine and being the fastest of the three hottest hatch-backs in the market today..
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (SRGTI)

quote:[HR][/HR]Can't believe that the Ford Focus SVT came in in first place and the Civic Si in second and that last but not least the 1.8 T GTI came in third.
At least they gave it props for having the best engine and being the fastest of the three hottest hatch-backs in the market today..
[HR][/HR]​
I happen to agree with most of their complaints but they don't really emphasize the fact that most car enthusiasts who purchase these cars modify them in some way shape or form. The first thing I did was put a suspenion on and I guarantee you even with the crappy tires the laptimes would equal or better that of the SVT.
BTW I'm moving this to the car lounge...
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (SRGTI)

It didn't really surprise me once I read the criteria the editors were looking for. It wasn't which one was the best car overall, it was which one was the best hottest-hatch. That means, all the comfort and safety equipment that the GTi/Golf/Jetta have weren't really important compared with how you can toss the car around and have fun. The Focus and the Civic are new cars while the GTi is more than 4 years old now. The main fault C&D found with the GTi was its weight, mushy tranny, and soft ride. These are all complaints that everyone on the Vortex has mentioned and with the 25th Anniversary GTi (which was mentioned in the article's sidebar) 2 of the 3 have been cured.
With the addition of the Impreza, these are the three cars that I looked at before buying my Golf. I chose the Golf because (in 2000 at least) the Golf was the safest, quietest, fastest, best-built hatch out there. Now Ford just introduced the ZX5, and I, quite frankly, can't wait for an SVT version of that or even better a Cosworth version!
But I'm not holding my breath.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (SRGTI)

I agree with C & D's findings completely. The SVT Focus is one sorted little machine. I haven't driven a Civic Si yet but it could probably edge out the GTi based on the shift action alone. The GTI's suspension and tranny are utter crap--two things that loom large in the hothatch sector. The ideal would be to mate the size, weight and suspension of the Focus with the engine and interior materials the GTI and the build quality of the Honda. Now that would be a car for the ages!
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (VR6guy)

When has C&D ever been partial to VW's??? The only european performance line they praise is the BMW. As long as i could remember VW has never been first place in their hearts...somewhat biased if you ask me.
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (SRGTI)

What I didn't like was how they had the last page of the article talking about aftermarket tuning of the cars. The VW by far is the easiest to tune, but they didn't stress that at all. Point being, it's cheaper to upgrade the VW suspension to match the Focus/SI, rather than to upgrade the Focus/SI power levels to that of the GTI.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (nsadhal)

I thought the most interesting thing about the article was in its last statement regarding the GTI where C/D said that it would be the first car (in the group) to pick if driving on a long trip but the last car to pick to go autocrossing in. I don't know about any of the rest of you, but I am more likely going to take a long trip with my car than to autocross it.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (SRGTI)

The only time I saw a VW won C&D comparo was long...long time ago with the B5 Passat GLX V6 beaten Accord EX V6. They never seem to like VW on any reviews. Its first Jetta GLX VR6 review as pretty much trashing the car, or more kindly, mix reviews. However, the kindest car company they treat has to be BMW.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (A4Jetta)

They seem to like the Passat. Another issue has it winning over the Subaru station wagon, Staturn, but the B5 wagon lost to BMW and Audi wagons.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (Jamblastx)

quote:[HR][/HR]I thought the most interesting thing about the article was in its last statement regarding the GTI where C/D said that it would be the first car (in the group) to pick if driving on a long trip but the last car to pick to go autocrossing in. I don't know about any of the rest of you, but I am more likely going to take a long trip with my car than to autocross it.[HR][/HR]​
That's not what magazine road tests are for, especially not comparos. Anybody can take a test drive down the superslab and judge if it will be a comfortable living room on wheels. It's in exploring the performance apsects, especially in comparison to the competition, that the magazine tests have value.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (Aw614)

quote:[HR][/HR]They seem to like the Passat. Another issue has it winning over the Subaru station wagon, Staturn, but the B5 wagon lost to BMW and Audi wagons. [HR][/HR]​
That's because the BMW and Audi are sportier than the Passat, and that was a sport wagon comparison (although they also included the H6 Outback, which is decidely unsporty). In the other comparison you mention, the V6 Passat beat the Saturn LW, Subaru Outback, and Ford Taurus. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (pig4bill)

quote:[HR][/HR]What I didn't like was how they had the last page of the article talking about aftermarket tuning of the cars. The VW by far is the easiest to tune, but they didn't stress that at all. Point being, it's cheaper to upgrade the VW suspension to match the Focus/SI, rather than to upgrade the Focus/SI power levels to that of the GTI.[HR][/HR]​
Um, I am gonna have to disagree with you on that one, Honda has the largest and most supportive aftermarket there is. For honda you have a GIANT range of every part imaginable, VW has a good aftermarket also, but nothing compared to Honda.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (pig4bill)

First of all, why should they give a rat's a$$ about the aftermarket suspension tuning available. All of these cars were tested STOCK, and aside from the occasional tuner test, that is what C&D tests. They test cars they way dealers make them, not the way somebody might modify them. Go read SuperStreet if you want to see tuner cars
Fact is, VW doesn't see fit to equip the suspension with the components it needs in this market. It is not up to C&D to make excuses for it, or take their test fleet vehicle and put aftermarket bits on it. It is up to VW to do it right in the first place...
Secondly, they don't show much of a bias against VW per se. They show a bias against flaccid suspensions and bad shifters, which is entirely fair with something like the GTI. The stock suspension IS sub-par. They do like the Passat a lot. They picked the Passat wagon over the Saturn, Taurs, and Legacy wagons. They acknowledged that the Passat was fighting in a different class in their comparo of the 4-motion against the upscale AWD wagons. It did beat its actual classmate in that comparo.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (Double-V)

Also, all those cars were top of the line.. SVT, Si, why didnt they throw in a vr6?.. it doesn't cost much more.. and i bet it woud get at least 2nd if not first..
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (GPBoy2oo1)

quote:[HR][/HR]Also, all those cars were top of the line.. SVT, Si, why didnt they throw in a vr6?.. it doesn't cost much more.. and i bet it woud get at least 2nd if not first.. [HR][/HR]​
Don't be so sure about that - the 12V VR6 didn't do well in a comparo back in 2000, so I think in this nimble group it would have done even worse.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (Double-V)

quote:[HR][/HR]Also, all those cars were top of the line.. SVT, Si, why didnt they throw in a vr6?.. it doesn't cost much more.. and i bet it woud get at least 2nd if not first.. [HR][/HR]​
I don't think they had an issue with the engine (1.8T) in the first place; it was stronger than the other two anyway. Their main gripes were with the tranny and suspension, like VR6Guy stated earlier. the 24V isn't going to help if the new 6-speed is anything like the trans is now and if VW keeps offering the GTI with the Lincoln Town Car suspension to this market. Don't get me wrong; I was <thisclose> to buying a GTI, and I think it's a great car. I just find it sad that VW is now getting its butt handed to them in a market that they created and had a stranglehold on for so long.
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (fsdks)

quote:[HR][/HR]
With the addition of the Impreza, these are the three cars that I looked at before buying my Golf. I chose the Golf because (in 2000 at least) the Golf was the safest, quietest, fastest, best-built hatch out there. Now Ford just introduced the ZX5, and I, quite frankly, can't wait for an SVT version of that or even better a Cosworth version!

But I'm not holding my breath.[HR][/HR]​
hmmmm, seeing as how Cosworth is now owned by Audi, I don't think they will be helping ford make engines
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (what)

That Cosworth ownership by Audi is sort of complicated. Audi doesn't own all of it. Ford still owns, or works out of, the motor building division of the company.
Obviously I'm not that sure whats going on, but I read an article about it, and Ford still has a finger in that pie.
Anyone know exactly whats up with Cosworth???
 

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Re: March 2002 Car&Driver Article on GTI 2002 (DgenR8)

Here's a great article on Cosworth's involvement in the tuning of the SVT Focus motor straight from Ford's Media Site.
FORD, COSWORTH TECHNOLOGY TEAM UP ON HIGH PERFORMANCE SVT FOCUS ENGINE
For those too lazy to click on the article, at the bottom they give a brief description of Cosworth Technology:
quote:[HR][/HR]COSWORTH TECHNOLOGY
Cosworth Technology is a major supplier of powertrain engineering services to the global automotive industry. It employs a total of 1,000 people at its operations in Northampton, Wellingborough and Worcester in the U.K. and at Cosworth Technology, Inc. in Novi, Michigan. Its unique blend of capabilities includes powertrain design, development and systems integration, engine manufacturing and aluminum engine component casting technology, incorporating the patented Cosworth Technology Casting Process. A subsidiary of AUDI AG, Cosworth Technology is an independent consultant. [HR][/HR]​
>8^)
ER



[Modified by Peloton25, 4:26 PM 2-11-2002]
 
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