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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
These are coming over the next 2 years. Surprised they developed inline 6 turbos with the push towards EV.


Following CX-50, Mazda will introduce two additional mid-size crossover SUVs for the Canadian and U.S. markets from its all-new large platform: the CX-90 followed by the CX-70. These new models will feature Mazda's new longitudinal architecture and introduce turbo-charged straight-six gasoline engine models and plug-in hybrid models to give consumers various options providing powerful, yet environmentally responsible performance.

A major difference between the models will be passenger occupancy, with the CX-90 providing three rows of seats and the CX-70 offering two rows of seats. The proportions of both vehicles will be optimized for Canadian consumers with expanded interior cabin and cargo spaces.

While CX-50 and CX-70 will be all-new additions to Mazda's lineup in Canada, CX-90 will serve as Mazda's only three-row SUV offering, in place of the current generation CX-9.
 

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It seems to me, the 50 is gonna be sold alongside the CX-5, the latter possibly being discontinued when the 70 comes along. And the CX-9 is basically done when the 90 goes on sale to replace it.

It also seems, and this is all speculation on my part, like they aren't gonna replace the 6 at all in North America.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It seems to me, the 50 is gonna be sold alongside the CX-5, the latter possibly being discontinued when the 70 comes along. And the CX-9 is basically done when the 90 goes on sale to replace it.

It also seems, and this is all speculation on my part, like they aren't gonna replace the 6 at all in North America.
yes, I could see the CX-5 get phased out after a couple of years just like the CX-3 once the CX-30 sales took over.
 

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I bet we are about to see a $60000 Mazda. Nothing with a longitudinal drivetrain in 2 or 3 row sells in the price brackets the CX-5 and CX-9 currently compete in.
 

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yes, I could see the CX-5 get phased out after a couple of years just like the CX-3 once the CX-30 sales took over.
At the same time I don't see the 50 as a direct replacement, I think it's more of a split of the roles, the being the "active/outdoorsy" model, while the CX-5 and eventual CX-70 are filling the more luxury, upscale roles. It explains to me why they are ditching FWD on the CX-5 refresh.
 

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I bet we are about to see a $60000 Mazda. Nothing with a longitudinal drivetrain in 2 or 3 row sells in the price brackets the CX-5 and CX-9 currently compete in.
I recall that everyone was concerned about the same thing about the Touareg. It ended up lasting 3 generations, and VW was not even on the same trajectory as Mazda in the market. Hopefully the cachet they have been accumulating over the last 5 years of bang-up interiors will help propel them into that marketspace like they've been wanting.
 

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I recall that everyone was concerned about the same thing about the Touareg. It ended up lasting 3 generations, and VW was not even on the same trajectory as Mazda in the market. Hopefully the cachet they have been accumulating over the last 5 years of bang-up interiors will help propel them into that marketspace like they've been wanting.
They have to get their dealers to improve a lot for that to happen. A few years ago I was negotiating for a CX-5 and one of the dealers said with a straight face “Its illegal to sell the car withour a remote starter in Canada”……
 

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I recall that everyone was concerned about the same thing about the Touareg. It ended up lasting 3 generations, and VW was not even on the same trajectory as Mazda in the market. Hopefully the cachet they have been accumulating over the last 5 years of bang-up interiors will help propel them into that marketspace like they've been wanting.
The Touareg bombed in the US, and a $60K Mazda will too. That's Aviator/X5/GV70/XC90 money
 

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am i the only one that reads the article saying that only the CX-70/90 will have the straight 6?
 

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The Touareg bombed in the US, and a $60K Mazda will too. That's Aviator/X5/GV70/XC90 money
The Touareg bombed because it was too much, too fast.

Mazda might actually succeed because it's a slower ascension, and done according to an actual plan, rather than by a conceited ego-maniac with no business acumen.
 

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am i the only one that reads the article saying that only the CX-70/90 will have the straight 6?
No def not, its in the second sentence lol

"The CX-50 will share its platform with Mazda's latest generation products, CX-30 and Mazda3"

License plate reads NoRWD4Me. You're right

Like I've said before my car guy side thinks this is kind of cool but my business analyst/generally concerned human being side says "what the hell is Mazda doing, this is another step away from the EV transition they need to make"
 

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They have to get their dealers to improve a lot for that to happen. A few years ago I was negotiating for a CX-5 and one of the dealers said with a straight face “Its illegal to sell the car withour a remote starter in Canada”……
I've heard that one so many times and from many different brands. In Canada, the Mazda dealership network is far more hit-or-miss than other brands. I'm thinking Chrysler, VW, I heard the Koreans aren't great generally either.

That said, as someone who works with dealers, Mazda definitely has the power to require higher standards of its dealers.
The Touareg bombed in the US, and a $60K Mazda will too. That's Aviator/X5/GV70/XC90 money
The Touareg bombed because it was too much, too fast.

Mazda might actually succeed because it's a slower ascension, and done according to an actual plan, rather than by a conceited ego-maniac with no business acumen.
Quoting this because I can't think of a much better response. The Touareg was no sales marvel, but the fact that it lasted as long as it did is impressive considering the reluctance to attach such a price tag to a VW. Mazda, on the other hand, has been building up to this for a while now. Does anyone remember what VW's lineup was when the Touareg was first released? Tough to compare (although I concede that I am the one bringing up the comparison).
I sure love a good Mazda but what I'm really interested in is something something RX. It's ok, I'll wait.
10 years ago, when RX-8 production was coming to a close and there was no replacement in sight, the ICE landscape was much more different than it is today. Today, ICE has a much clearer expiration date, and while I would love to own another rotary vehicle in my life, I think Mazda has to really weigh the benefits of continuing rotary development. As discussed in this thread, they already seem to be pushing it with the new I6 (i.e. "who develops a clean-sheet ICE this day in age").

In my view, I think this engine is something that the brand has been sorely lacking for many years, and it is important to give their bigger SUVs more capability to rival American competition, so it's not that much of a stretch. But any fresh development on ICE will probably make me wince a little more. They know that they are on borrowed time with ICE and need to move over to EVs, especially for these mainstream models.
 

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The Touareg bombed because it was too much, too fast.

Mazda might actually succeed because it's a slower ascension, and done according to an actual plan, rather than by a conceited ego-maniac with no business acumen.
You take that back, Piech had plenty of business acumen

What was the plan... first it was Zoom Zoom.... then jinba ittai.... then screw driving we are gonna go luxury.... all within the span of like a decade. There is no plan at Mazda.

To me it would make more sense to focus on getting the volume up rather than chasing status and higher MSRPs. Crossover buyers generally dont give a **** about chassis balance and car geek approved hardware. The RX being the top selling luxury crossover is proof of that. Brand equity pretty much trumps all in the luxury space, especially as MSRPs climb........... which is why the more expensive XC90 outsells the current CX-9 by 3 to 2. How do you see things improving with the CX-9 getting more expensive to upgrade hardware most people buying it don't give a **** about?

IMO the CX-9 needs to follow the Telluride's blueprint........ keep the good looking design but FFS make the interior usefully large. Then maybe differentiate meaningfully by leaning on the free hybrid tech licenses Toyota has offered up. Keep the design beautiful in and out. That's it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Mazda Europe posted the following image in their press release. Remember that Europe is only getting the RWD CX-60/80 so this gives us an idea of the silhouette for the CX-70/90 in the US. It will certainly have a higher beltline and taller horizontal hood.

 

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You take that back, Piech had plenty of business acumen

What was the plan... first it was Zoom Zoom.... then jinba ittai.... then screw driving we are gonna go luxury.... all within the span of like a decade. There is no plan at Mazda.

To me it would make more sense to focus on getting the volume up rather than chasing status and higher MSRPs. Crossover buyers generally dont give a ** about chassis balance and car geek approved hardware. The RX being the top selling luxury crossover is proof of that. Brand equity pretty much trumps all in the luxury space, especially as MSRPs climb........... which is why the more expensive XC90 outsells the current CX-9 by 3 to 2. How do you see things improving with the CX-9 getting more expensive to upgrade hardware most people buying it don't give a ** about?

IMO the CX-9 needs to follow the Telluride's blueprint........ keep the good looking design but FFS make the interior usefully large. Then maybe differentiate meaningfully by leaning on the free hybrid tech licenses Toyota has offered up. Keep the design beautiful in and out. That's it.
Time will tell. I think Piech was smart too, but I think it's a stretch to say Mazda has no plan. They have clearly been planning this since the early 2010s at least. The period of time you are referencing is more like two decades than one.
 

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You take that back, Piech had plenty of business acumen

What was the plan... first it was Zoom Zoom.... then jinba ittai.... then screw driving we are gonna go luxury.... all within the span of like a decade. There is no plan at Mazda.

To me it would make more sense to focus on getting the volume up rather than chasing status and higher MSRPs. Crossover buyers generally dont give a ** about chassis balance and car geek approved hardware. The RX being the top selling luxury crossover is proof of that. Brand equity pretty much trumps all in the luxury space, especially as MSRPs climb........... which is why the more expensive XC90 outsells the current CX-9 by 3 to 2. How do you see things improving with the CX-9 getting more expensive to upgrade hardware most people buying it don't give a ** about?

IMO the CX-9 needs to follow the Telluride's blueprint........ keep the good looking design but FFS make the interior usefully large. Then maybe differentiate meaningfully by leaning on the free hybrid tech licenses Toyota has offered up. Keep the design beautiful in and out. That's it.
This is a word salad and not a cohesive argument.

First, Piech and all of his supporters can go rotate on a broomstick. Let's just rewind the clock - the Toureg came out in 2002 and cost $50-60K. There was a gigantic gulf between that car and the next most expensive VW, the Passat, which topped out at HALF that amount. The Toureg and Phaeteon came along with no model build up in between, and suddenly it was sixty grand in a VW dealer network. That doesn't fly, never has, and never will.

Mazda has flirted with higher price points before. They nearly launched their Amati luxury car line in 1990 that was supposed to go up against Lexus, and the RX7, Millenia, and 929 were all near-luxury products at the higher end of their competitive sets. The RX8 was a near $40,000 car back when Piech took a dump on the business case for VW and dropped the Toureg and Phaelure on a market that didn't seem to care about either. I note, however, that the Toureg managed to right-size itself and find some success in the marketplace. And frankly, there's still a place for the TOureg in the marketplace now....I am not sure why VW canned their only real chance to unlock the luxury space.

I see the CX series doing the Palisade playbook, AND adding Audi level interior quality and some nice driving dynamics. They are not JUST focusing on driving dynamics - that would be a mistake. But interiors get noticed, and that will get them noticed too. And again, they are slowly building up to a higher price class.

Finally, I don't know if you are paying attention, but $60,000 is kind of where the heart of the market is for these types of cars. You know that, right?
 

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The Touareg is doing just fine and sold more in 2019 pre-pandemic than any year since before the Great Recession. It also has more successful platform mates than ever before that are doing big numbers. It's a made-for Europe product and always has been.

As far as North America, a brand sells what they have. The Touareg was the only SUV VW had so they sold it. I don't think that there were ever grandiose volume expectations for the model here. By the time MK6 Jetta, NMS, and Chattanooga development began, the transition to having more Skoda-like high-value volume models for this market was underway and the Touareg was never gonna fit in well with that.
 
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