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Actually, my wife and I are weighing the Highlander and CX9 (and now also maybe the CX90) out to see what makes the most sense. Granted the Highlander is a touch bigger, but not much.
You can't just walk to a dealer and get a Highlander without being hosed, and I'm not going to wait a year or so on a stupid appliance. I'd grab a CX whatever or a pathfinder, drive it 12-15 years and junk it, Toyota can keep it.
 

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Then why does the 4 banger only XC90 outsell the V6 Aviator, GV80, XT6, Q7, QX60 etc. It should be at the bottom of sales in its segment because people will opt for anything but the 4 cyl. Why does the 4 banger Explorer outsell V6 3 row crossovers like the Telluride & Pilot. Highlander is #2... why is Toyota getting rid of its V6 for a turbo 4 if it knows its customers won't buy a 4 cylinder?
I never said that they won't buy it.... stop putting words in my mouth. Given a choice, many prefer engines feeling more 'noble', that doesn't sound like a f* Civic. Problem is that carmakers push their 4-cyl. in their customers' throat basically TO SAVE MONEY, and justify them by the EPA or other nonsense.

And why will Mazda re-introduce a 6 cyl.? Why Kia/Hyundai as recently as 2019 chose a V6 with a pathetic 262lbs-ft torque for the North American market? Why did Porsche reintroduce a 6-cyl. in the 718? Why are we living the golden age of the pony cars? Good luck selling a Mustang to a GT fan with something else than a V8. One of my employees had a 2021 Silverado 2.7T and his comment was (loosely translated) "It sounds like a small car." and basically hated it, although he mentioned a better gas mileage than his previous 5.3. Now he has a Silverado 3.0T Duramax. About every review of the new C-Series AMG complained about the engine noise; its idle is so bad that you could believe it is a diesel. Same goes with the N20....

But if they do their homework, they literally can put 4-cyl. to shame. Yes, even Toyota. Case in evidence;



Thanks to its 10-sp. the Accord will be quicker on 0-60mph, but not on the 5-60mph where it matters.

And even a better one, possibly more related to this thread.



It says 'Hybrid' but MB/BMW aren't really that (unlike xdrive45e). Of course, the T8 is a different beast.
 

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I never said that they won't buy it.... stop putting words in my mouth. Given a choice, many prefer engines feeling more 'noble', that doesn't sound like a f* Civic. Problem is that carmakers push their 4-cyl. in their customers' throat basically TO SAVE MONEY, and justify them by the EPA or other nonsense.

And why is will Mazda re-introduce a 6 cyl.? Why Kia/Hyundai as recently as 2019 chose a V6 with only 263lbs-ft torque for the North American market? Why did Porsche reintroduce a 6-cyl. in the 718? Why are we living the golden age of the pony cars ? Good luck to selling a Mustang over something else than a V8. One of my employees had a 2021 Silverado 2.7T and his comment was (loosely translated) "It sounds like a small car." and basically hated it, although he mentioned a better gas mileage than his previous 5.3. Now he has a Silverado 3.0T Duramax. About every review of the new C-Series AMG complained about the engine noise; its idle is so bad that you could believe it is a diesel. Same goes with the N20....

But if they do their homework, they literally can put 4-cyl. to shame. Yes, even Toyota. Case in evidence;



Thanks to its 10-sp. the Accord will be quicker on 0-60mph, but not on the 5-60mph where it matters.

And even a better one, possibly more related to this thread.



It says 'Hybrid' but MB/BMW aren't really that (unlike xdrive45e). Of course, the T8 is a different beast.
Your posts keep getting longer and longer because you can't answer basic questions lol.

Bottom line there are plenty of instances of expensive 4 banger vehicles outselling 6 banger ones. So the idea that the CX-90 getting 2 cylinders over the CX-9 will make a huge difference is ridiculous. If anything it's going to sell worse since Mazda is definitely going to raise the price for it being more premium. Unfortunately I dont think theres a lot of appetite for a $60K Mazda. Most people would rather have a 4 banger Benz
 

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Bottom line there are plenty of instances of expensive 4 banger vehicles outselling 6 banger ones.
It was never the point. The point was that "the number of cylinders doesn't matter". The correct answer is that for many, * it does *. As I wrote (and agreed), the price of this new Mazda is likely to be a problem. Gone are the times when a new Acura Integra GS was priced like my MX-3 GS V6 1992. Hopefully, its entry price won't be more than $45K but I doubt it.
 

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And even a better one, possibly more related to this thread.



It says 'Hybrid' but MB/BMW aren't really that (unlike xdrive45e). Of course, the T8 is a different beast.
You know the GLE is sold with a 4 as it’s base volume trim, right? And look at the EPA of the Volvo…it gets better fuel economy and emissions while giving similar acceleration.
 

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It was never the point. The point was that "the number of cylinders doesn't matter". The correct answer is that for many, * it does *. As I wrote (and agreed), the price of this new Mazda is likely to be a problem. Gone are the times when a new Acura Integra GS was priced like my MX-3 GS V6 1992. Hopefully, its entry price won't be more than $45K but I doubt it.
The number of cylinders don't matter. If they did Mercedes and BMW wouldn't be pumping out 4 bangers in $80K cars (before ADMs). The % of people who give a damn, even in the luxury market, is tiny.

And while I'm not as bearish on this as I was on the first page....... I still think the upsides of these new models that resonate with actual customers have nothing to do with the new engine or platform. Like I'm interested in the PHEV. Maybe they needed to scrap the old platform to do that. But they could have grabbed Toyota's big FWD platform + hybrid tech and just built off that. So now if the PHEV costs like $65-70K instead of $50-55K for "RWD dynamics".... eff that I'm looking elsewhere. And that's as someone who understands and values good dynamics. That ****'s not worth an extra $10-15K in a family hauler.
 

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Just did a quick comparison between the CX-9 and Ascent (since I own one)
  • Weigh about the same, Ascent can tow 3500 more.
  • CX9 is three inches longer
  • CX9 has a little under an inch more 2nd row legroom, two inches less of third row legroom
  • Ascent has 15 more cubic feet of cargo volume with seats folded
  • CX9 has a little under two inches more cargo length with seats up/down
  • In all other seating specs (headroom, hiproom, and shoulder room) the Ascent beats the CX9.
I think the above is what people are getting at. Longer than a competitor, but outside of 2nd row legroom (which at 38+ inches for competitors is enough) it gets beat.

Anyway, like the return of inline 6 motors to regular cars (looking at you Dodge) but I don't think it is the right move for Mazda. We shall see!
 

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Anyway, like the return of inline 6 motors to regular cars (looking at you Dodge) but I don't think it is the right move for Mazda. We shall see!
Inline 6 engines are the most naturally balanced of the normal engine variants.
With that in mind, Mazda may have chosen that configuration to get smooth power with a more simple design (one head and exhaust) and also for Engine stop-start to be much less noticeable (to feel more "premium").
 

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I think the more likely reason they went with the I6 was to share architecture with the I4s. This was a big driver in other new I6s. The smoothness & simplicity of design def don't hurt though.
 

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I think the above is what people are getting at. Longer than a competitor, but outside of 2nd row legroom (which at 38+ inches for competitors is enough) it gets beat.
I think the CVT and the styling hurt the Ascent more than having a couple of cubic feet of extra cargo space benefits it.
 

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I think the more likely reason they went with the I6 was to share architecture with the I4s. This was a big driver in other new I6s. The smoothness & simplicity of design def don't hurt though.
Mazda is pushing upmarket, whether people want them to or not, and the new longitudinal platform allows for more cylinders. Why let the prestige gap go to waste?
 

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Discussion Starter · #338 · (Edited)
While a lot of the focus is on the RWD inline-6 for this platform, don’t forget that Mazda developed this platform with the PHEV in mind. Most other PHEV vehicles are based on an existing ICE platform using the same transmission/CVT and then using electric motors at each wheel.

Mazda instead placed an electric motor in front of the transmission for both the PHEV and the inline-6 mild hybrid. This provides some inherent benefits of a smother transition between the electric motor and the engine.

We will see how this works out and if it was worth it. But I don’t believe anyone else took this approach as they looked at PHEV as a very short term approach before going full electric.

I believe the transition to BEV will take longer than anticipated due rising costs of batteries, as we will see a shortage of resources. In this scenario PHEV will be a viable alternative for longer than anticipated and Mazda’s new platform would be prepared for this.
 
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