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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently finished reading through all 16 pages of horror of My Old Rocs megasquirt install thread and I AINT SCARED!
just as the title says, I want to install megasquirt in my 16 valve. I want to get rid of the hideous airbox above all. clean up my engine bay, strip out ten pounds of wires and so on.

(I stole this pic)
edit: before anyone says it, I am still reading the official megasquirt in a 16v faq thread right now. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1377841
so lets begin:
I wanted to build a kit. (I like soldering) so I went with the DIYAutotune kit and it was awesome. highly recomended.
I would like to get rid of my distributor eventually,(see stage 2) so I will need a special crank trigger wheel and crank position sensor to do that. thankfully a kit for this is available from 034motorsport for about 225, http://www.034motorsport.com/p...d=454 and theres a lesser known setup from a lupo or polo that some people are reporting success with. see that one here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3516017
has anyone else on here done this to a 16v yet that might have compiled a complete parts list for the project?
the end result will be cleaning up this:

so that the whole car will look like this:

and I wont be ashamed to open my hood at the next car show.

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EDIT: I am moving my parts list to the original post and I will edit it as things change.
PARTS LIST: (* means I have it)
Tools
1 x Jimstim 65$ (diyautotune) *
1x Koul tools hose fitting installer tool *
Stage 1
1 x 2.0L 9a block *
1 x Euro Intake cam *
1x 16v Throttle Body with TPS *
1 x 16v fuel rail 139$ * - Bahn Brenner
4 x Digifant "Fuel injector holder" (4.80 ea from GAP) *
4 x 1.8t injectors. (High impedance, 30.15lb/hr ~320cc/min.) (used, free)*
EDIT: those injectors suck. they are too short for that rail. I had the tubes pop off the rail and spray fuel everywhere. NOT FUN. now I am using G60 injectors. also high impedance, at 26lb/hr
4 x bosch injector pigtail plugs (diyauto 26$ total) * -(also see mouser.com for these plugs for 1.09$, and pins for .22 each)
1 x 2,7/8" intake air tube $5 napa*
1 x 3" cone type air filter (free, found on side of road)*
1 x Intake Air Temp sensor (open element with plug) (diyautotune) 20$ *
1 x megasquirt kit. 250$ (diyautotune) *
1 x 12 feet of cable, 40$ (diyautotune) *
1 x Aeromotive 1000 -6 Fuel Pressure Regulator 140$ *
1 x wideband 02 sensor 300$ (Innovate LC-1) *
1 x relay board kit 65$ (diyautotune) *
1x Coolant temp sensor (not needed - using stock sensor)
Assorted fuel hoses and fittings from Jegs, summit, and 034 ~180$
- Jegs Elite Series hose fittings -
1x 90* -6AN hose fitting 15.99$*
5x straight -6AN hose fittings 8.99 each*
2x -6AN to ORB fpr fittings 6.99 each*
1x -6 AN ORB plug. 5.99$
6ft Jegs Pro-Flo stainless braided hose 26.99$
2x vw hard line(14mm x1.50 inverted flare) to -6AN adapters - 11.99 eachsummit, 034, Jegs
more assorted AMP style plugs and pins and stuff from mouser.com
1x dual input knock sensor kit. "KnockSense" 73$ http://www.viatrack.ca/
Stage 2: dizzy replacement
1 x 16v Crank Trigger Kit 225$ (034motorsports or the Polo/Lupo setup)
1 x High Output 4-Cyl Waste Spark Coil 75$ (034motorsports)
stage 3: turbo (could happen some day)
1x turbo manifold ~400-700$
1x turbo 1billion$
1x waste gate
1x compression lowering head gasket or turbo pistons
Dont need:
MAP sensor - the megasquirt ECU has one built in, just need to run a hose to it.
Modified by JonnyPhenomenon at 2:25 PM 8-4-2009


Modified by JonnyPhenomenon at 4:20 PM 4-7-2010
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Megasquirt in my 16v. (JonnyPhenomenon)

some questions:
If I remember right, the old megasquirt required a different board if you wanted to drive the spark too instead of using a dizzy. is that still true? or will the MSII handle that now?
can a MAP sensor work as a replacement for a throttle body with TPS?
do I need an additional coolant temp sensor or will the stock one suffice?
what kind of injectors do I need to fit into the 16v head? the stock injectors are long and narrow, not like any other injectors I have seen.
thanks for the help
 

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Re: Megasquirt in my 16v. (dvn02)

Im in the process of MS soon, but for what you need it sounds like youll need...
16v fuel rail, or custom made 1.8t(ugly)
distributor block off plate
coil pack
injectors really depends on what your doing but 30 lbs/hr should work fine
crank trigger and pulley
theres a special coolant adapter which you can rob off n older saturn IIRC
fuel lines/ fpr
MAYBE a passat TB with TPS theres people better at this than me but this is what Ive gathered, I would suggest frequenting the carbs/itb forum
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=517
they are a very valuable resource. DIYautotune.com IIRC is where you would be best off for getting parts, NOT SCAMMATRON!!!

but what you need most of all is PATIENCE!!!!!
good luck and just bug timbo to help
 

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Re: Megasquirt in my 16v. (JonnyPhenomenon)

yes you can eliminate the distributor with MSnS, 034 motorsports sells a full bolt on kit, and has everything for this conversion
some questions:
If I remember right, the old megasquirt required a different board if you wanted to drive the spark too instead of using a dizzy. is that still true? or will the MSII handle that now? ms1 v3 is what you would want if you were running crank trigger, yes ms2 can also handle this
can a MAP sensor work as a replacement for a throttle body with TPS? yes it can, you have the choice to run a TPS or MAP for the accel enrichment
do I need an additional coolant temp sensor or will the stock one suffice? you can configure the MS to read the stock sensor
what kind of injectors do I need to fit into the 16v head? the stock injectors are long and narrow, not like any other injectors I have seen. you need digifant injector cups, they screw right in. you need a EFI injector, the stock 1.8t or g60 are about perfect for an NA 16v
thanks for the help
no prob
 

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You can use the stock distributor with the stock hall sender for RPM pickup. Megasquirt can fire the coil itself, so you don't need the ECU
I HIGHLY reccomend the V3.0 PCB, weather you go MS1 or MS2 chip, that's up to you - I have experience with MS1 - with MSnS-E code on it.
Get the kit from DIYautotune. They are the best. Everything is labeled.
I use GM sensors for Coolant temp and Intake air temp. I believe they are more reliable. However, VW sensors can be used easy enough with eztherm.
 

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Re: (timbo2132)

i believe he wants to get rid of the distributor, and that can be done in several ways. crank trigger via v3 setup or ford EDIS with the 2.2 etc..there are so many different ways to do ignition its insane

an yes if you want to build a kit, go through diyautotune.com http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: (VWralley)

Oh, yeah!! Reading comprehension>me

Yeah -that 034 kit is really neato!
There's a lot of options for triger wheels. You might even be able to use a 20v Cam position sensor on the 16v head. DIYautotune has a couple of universal ones. you could also glue a couple o magnets onto your crank pulley and make a sensor outa that.
An ABA block has a crank trigger wheel built in. Might check that out.
 

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Re: (timbo2132)

Quote, originally posted by timbo2132 »
There's a lot of options for triger wheels. You might even be able to use a 20v Cam position sensor on the 16v head. DIYautotune has a couple of universal ones. you could also glue a couple o magnets onto your crank pulley and make a sensor outa that.

i dont think you can use a cam sensor, i inquired about this and apparently those dont work because there is not enough trigger events per rotation as the cam spins twice as fast as the crank or something along those lines. im not 100% on this, but i did look into it a little an found a cam sensor doesnt work to trigger ignition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: (VWralley)

so, a trigger wheel on the crank pull then. too bad something couldnt be fabbed up under the valve cover.

this 034 motorsport has a few thigns I was looking for. nice link.
does anyone know the difference between the megastim 2.2 and jimstim 1.3?

Note:
one reason I am building this megasquirt system, is so I can eventually track down a 1.8t and do a motor swap without worrying about needing the entire ECU and wiring harness out of the donor car. this makes it a LOT easier to order one though a junk yard.
 

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Re: (JonnyPhenomenon)

the megastim is for just ms v2.2 board and has to be modified to test other ecu's (i believe) the jim stim is a more universal type tester.
i dont build ecu's though so that would be worht double checking
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: (VWralley)

I was already planning on going with the ms2 v3 board with the newer chip.
how about this waste spark coil here:
http://www.034motorsport.com/p...id=40
and this crank trigger wheel
http://www.034motorsport.com/p...d=454
altho it just occured to me that that is made to fit a 16v with vbelts, and that doesnt quite agree with my plan to do the serpentine belt conversion. hmmm.

this fuel rail,
http://www.034motorsport.com/p...d=791
Im still dont quite understand the injectors thing. stock 1.8t injectors do not look at all like they will fit down the tiny holes that the 16v injectors are in.
are you saying that those holes are just a cup and can be removed to make way for the digifant cups?
anyway, I found these at URST, think they might be what I need?
http://www.usrallyteam.com/ind...d=345
and looking at those, I dont see how that fuel rail will attach to them.

what kind of wideband o2 sensor do I need? shouldnt I just need the sensor and not all the extra stuff?
what fuel pressure regulator should I go with? the only one listed on 034 is a 5bar. I got the impression that megasquirt preferred a lower pressure FPR, but I cant remember where I saw that....
 

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Re: (JonnyPhenomenon)

415cc inj are HUGE, those are aimed at like 3-400hp boosted motors. you need around a 24lb/hr. the stock 1.8t and stock g60 are found everywhere for pretty cheap and id highly recomend an injector service if youbuy used.
for the injectors, you remove the brass injector cups from the manifold, and screw in 8v digifant plastic injector cups, the efi injectors fit right in.
for the FPR, i personally prefer the aeromotive a1000, its a stand-off type and go for about 134, but it is fully adjustable and has a boost reference port if you ever go forced induction. i also recomend you use the Jegs Push-loc hose and fittings, very good quality, and good for up to like 240psi. ive used this setup on all of my installs and never once had an issue.
for the wideband, the innovate stuff is pretty nice, but i find it to be a little on the finicky side, the AEM uego setup has proven very reliable thus far in two cars my roomate built. both work well, and the innovate one with the guage has worked great in a good friends car i did recently


Modified by VWralley at 11:48 AM 3-15-2008
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: (VWralley)

thanks for all the useful information. I have a lead on the stock 1.8t injectors, fuel rail and throttle body. Im going to modify my original post with my parts list and change it as I get things bought.
what do you mean by "injector service" ?
I have an 92 8v digifant motor in the corner of my garage. Ill chek it out and see if I can get the old cups out. nothing wrong with reusing them right?
thanks for the tip on the jegs hose. I was thinking about that last night. that stuff looks perfect.
as for the wideband, do I need a controller or can I just get a sensor and depend on the megasquirt ecu to interperet its signal? I dont understand why they sell these wideband sensors all with controllers. what is there to control? its a SENSOR!
</rant>

also: do I need an exaust gas temp sensor or will a good wideband o2 sensor be good enough?
 

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Re: (JonnyPhenomenon)

an injector service is basically cleaning an balancing for even flow, def do it if you buy used injectors, ive had a ton of issues come up on long term setups without having them cleaned before use.
buy new cups, they are like $3 each
old ones may not seal as well an could possibly crack and like i said, new ones are cheap. they have an o-ring the seals the bottom and that can actually cause a vacuum leak
yes jegs hose is badass, i love that stuff haha
the wideband needs a controller to interperet the data and give you an accurate reading. the main purpose is for tuning, but its not a bad idea to have it send info to the MS to help you cruise economy. you will want the LC-1 w/ guage or th AEM uego. i found it more difficult to tune without being able to see a guage outside the MS, and also you can use the wideband for doing datalogging, which helps smooth out the tune once you get it close while drive tuning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: (VWralley)

I have a computer in the car already. not a laptop, but a 7" touchscreen lcd in my center console. works great as a GPS, and I have some 40+ gigs of mp3s on there too.

I figure I can leave the megasquirt software running on it and log all the time..
Im not that excited about paying for the controller and having yet another guage in my dash.. I got a friend who is going to Give me a wideband sensor, if megasquirt can interface with it without need of the other 200$ controller and guage, then I might opt for that.
I have to find ways to cut corners, without doing it wrong...
what can be done to an injector to adjust them? can they be taken apart and tuned? I thought they were just so and that was that...
 
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