MK1 Cabby 1.8 G60TSI Buildup Phase 1 (R&D)
Termite's MK1 Cabby 1.8 G60TSI Buildup
FYI: I have started building This site as a diary to all my projects.
PHASE 1 (Research and Development)
So, it starts... I've told a few people about my plans. I was originally going to keep it a secret, but as I dug into the scenarios I came to realize I'm going to need some advice. I’ve started picking apart some brains and websites; even started hording random parts. I'm in the R&D stage for my 1.8 TG60 cabby build.
The Basics: Background of the VW 1.4 TSI
In series is the way the 1.4 TSI Golf was designed, but that could present an issue with hot compressed air going in to the turbo. I'd need not only an IC after the turbo, before the intake, but I'd like to put an IC between the charger and turbo if I am going to do this.
Parallel was my first thought, since I wouldn't be running hot air in to the turbo, and wouldn't require two IC's. So it's either two smaller IC's or one large one. I'll play this by ear as I go. Space and placement may dictate this design.
Of course, this concept isn’t new or different by any means at all. Lancia had a similar setup in their AWD Mid Engine Deltas and were banned from the races for having too much power. I believe a few other manufacturers dabbled with this concept as well, but I haven’t dug that deep in to them. Honestly, the Lancia engine is what originally spawned this idea in my head. That and I saw some Skyline with it YEARS ago. I was fascinated from that point on. That and muh boy DuncMan brought it up in conversation again one day. It almost seemed fait for me to try this…
“Why use an 1.8 8v G60 as your baseline.”
Simple, the engine was free, and readily available. That and I figured a VR6 is much heavier, less ground clearance, and I didn’t get one for free. Don’t get me wrong, the VR6 is hella sexy sounding, and backs a huge punch in the pants, but I’m going to stick with the smaller engine to start. It was suggested to me by CanaryRadoG60 (not sure his vortex name), on the Strictly European Autosport forums to go with a 16v conversion for extra flow. Thanks for the advice mate, I’m going to look in to acquiring the parts.
Asking for a handout:
Now, I'd like to pick the brains of anyone who wishes to support my cause. If you have ANY input good or bad, please send it my way. Criticism, constructive or not, will give me something to work with. The whole point of this project is to attempt to do something "different", something hard to do. Hell, I may even attempt to find seal and hose kits for this to take E85. The thought of a green performance car had crossed my mind.
The Scientific Method Who remembers this from school?
================================================
Problem
What turbo to use? I’m a bit new to the forced induction world, and don’t know the reviews and names of all the good turbo systems out there. I learn fast thought.
![]()
Hypothesis:
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
Stock G60 ECU re-chipping/reprogramming, MegaSquirt, other piggyback system, or standalone?
Hypothesis:
The ECU that came with this engine is from an automatic setup. I’m assuming this will work fine, but I wonder what using an auto ECU will do when running a manual. I assume the only difference is the auto ECU has kick-down control. Speaking of which, I need to sell that tranny soonish.
Advice from others
From CanaryRadoG60 on the Strictly European Autosport forums
snstuning.com <---sam knows his **** when it comes to all digi set-ups sam might have some info on the set-up you are looking to tackle. he might have tried and or thought of this one as well. sam might be difficult to get ahold of, but he responds well to IM on the vortex. look up his screen name.
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
Speaking of trannies... I also don't plan on converting the car to run the hydraulic tranny that mates with the G60, I planned on rebuilding and using my solid shift bunny tranny.
Hypothesis:
Of course I'll look in to changing the internals if I plan on producing an extreme amount of power. The bolt up should be direct as far as I have found otherwise... (Anyone?) I think the last owner of the cabby put a diesel tranny in it by mistake anyway. They said the old one went out on them and they had one put in from another car. Thing is, at around 65mph on the (120mph max) cluster, I'm actually rolling along around 40 something. That coincidently enough is about the same spot as about 45 or near there is on a diesel (85mph max) cluster. Either they put the wrong speedo in, or I have a diesel gearing. I am going to have to crawl under there or wait til I pull the stock motor out to check the stamping. If it is a diesel tranny, I might be able to get away without changing out the gears huh? Thoughts?
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
What about the Control Bypass Valve? [see diagram above] What do I use for that?
Hypothesis:
(order the one from the 1.4 TSI and modify it to work here?) Fabricate my own? How do I control it?
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
What is my boost mapping going to look like for a setup like this?
Is that going to be complicated or just based on overall boost?
Hypothesis:
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
E85
Hypothesis:
Might not work too well… It has been suggested to me that 18psi is the “safest” to run on pump gas, without detonation. E85 might not be able to meet that requirement.
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Reference Sources
- Here's a pretty good write-up on how the 1.4 TSI works...
- Green Earth Technologies for green motor lubricant and cleaners
- Green Filter USA Lifetime warranty vs. K&N's million mile warranty. Well I know that's a stretch, but meh... K&N also over dips their rubber edge seal, blocking more of the breather area. While most of the Green's I have seen are nicely clean and not spilling over in to the breather area. Just a small OCD thing I noticed.
- What ever happened with these "Green Tires" I wonder?
- Squire's Rear Mount Turbo Systems The external mounting of this system helps to cool the turbo and keep the hot air out of the engine bay. Plus the metal hosing acts as an IC, cooling the air as it passes through the externally cooled piping. This system also reduces turbo lag, almost making my charger setup null.
- VWVortex News Article on the Golf 1.4 TSI with diagrams and specs.
Stuff already acquired...
The Basics:
- The car: 1984 Cabby
![]()
- The engine: Stock 1.8 G60 well technically it doesn’t have the charger on it atm, so I guess we will call it a forged 1.8 (to be rebuilt fully and turbo added)
- The wheels: 13" 2-piece Ronal basket weave (don't remember the exact model) Boy, do I need to clean those!
![]()
- G60 stock IC
- Working stock A/C (yup I'm going performance and cool - suck it)
Extras acquired:
- GT Grant Mahogany
- New Duckbill (old one has cornering rash)
- Some seemingly custom One-of-a-kind tubular steel bumpers I pulled off this other rabbit I bought cheap in Baltimore
![]()
- PIAA HID ballast kit (not sure what I'm going to do with this, since I don't have a housing to use it with properly)
- HELLA OE flat lens headlight housing
- Kamei Factory OE Hood Scoupe (ahhhh fresh cabin air!!!) Used to belong to aKaBigMike, then acquired at Benbuilt4u’s shop. No Burkee, you still can’t have it back!
![]()
Planned to acquire:
- Turbo of course (but what kind, what size, blah)
- Roots Charger (the engine I got was just a 60 basically, it didn't have the G-ladder charger with it, just the brackets and everything else.)
- Hosing will more than likely be supplied by Henry's Engineering in Maryland. They are one of the East Coast's Leading manufacturers and resellers of Aeroquip high pressure hosing and fittings. A long time family friend owns the place, another long time family friend works there, as well as my Dad works there... can you say HOOK-UPS!?
- Flowmaster 44 Series Muffler 2.5" for that DEEP tone and high flow. (3" won't fit up and over the rear u-arm, unless I get REALLY creative with the body and cutting some channels.)
- Flowmaster Hushpower II Resonator 2.5" to reduce that rasp and enhanced the 44 Series deep rich sound. (3" won't fit up and over the rear u-arm, unless I get REALLY creative with the body and cutting some channels.)
- Where the hell can I score a syncro/4motion/quattro drive train for this damn thing? Yea, I kind of have dreams to add this to the list as well, but that's a BIG dream. AWD cabby!?- I'll add more as I think of it...
- Thinking about getting air temp sensors/gauges for each section of induction hosing, as well as just inside the intake opening; to monitor air temp as it travels the hosing. This might help me improve the heating issues stated above.
- For live monitoring/car audio control/video and more… BEHOLD Carputer Heaven!
- Mini-ITX Automotive Chassis
- MSI Industrial LX800 Mini-ITX Mainboard – booting OS from [url=http://www.logicsupply.com/products/ts1gcf100i]compact flash – running my custom stripped down Windows XP
- 8” in-dash touch screen
- Vag-Com with USB dongle, always connected and logging to the internal carputer’s 40-pin IDE Flash Module
- If I go with opting to not use the Stock ECU, and use a stand-alone instead, then the carputer will monitor that systems software, and Vag-Com is a moot point.
Thanks to all who have helped so far…
- My wifee, Maux (like faux), for being the awesomestest wifee evar, not nagging about the car, and actually pushing me to get it finished.
- My dad for getting me first interested in vdubs.
- My Brother-in-Law badazzgti88 for his advice and more
- DuncMan for advice
- 2bluejettacoupe for donating many of the parts, and for being and awesome friend
- Cort for being an awesome long time friend as well, and busting my balls with my supposedly stupid idea to build a TSI. Meh, I’ll show you sucka!
- aKaBigMike for first fully introducing me into the vdub tuning realm. He was the first person in VA to flag me down on the road, and is how I made friends in a state I knew very few people. And for making me fix his VRcoupe until 3am on the side of Rt.50 into Ocean City, MD.
- Lil Tee, I didn’t forget about your influence. I don’t know your tex name though.
- turbopumpkin – Man, I don’t know your tex name either, but dayum, you have opened my eyes to some crazy fabricating and ish. I know anything is possible. You better believe I’m going to poke you from time to time on this one. Hope you don’t mind.
OK peeps, pick it apart! Go ahead, I don't mind. Now off to drink my last beer and fall asleep.
Modified by termitesgraffix at 12:01 AM 5-5-2008
Modified by termitesgraffix at 2:06 AM 5-14-2008
Termite's MK1 Cabby 1.8 G60TSI Buildup
FYI: I have started building This site as a diary to all my projects.
PHASE 1 (Research and Development)
So, it starts... I've told a few people about my plans. I was originally going to keep it a secret, but as I dug into the scenarios I came to realize I'm going to need some advice. I’ve started picking apart some brains and websites; even started hording random parts. I'm in the R&D stage for my 1.8 TG60 cabby build.
The Basics: Background of the VW 1.4 TSI
In series is the way the 1.4 TSI Golf was designed, but that could present an issue with hot compressed air going in to the turbo. I'd need not only an IC after the turbo, before the intake, but I'd like to put an IC between the charger and turbo if I am going to do this.
Parallel was my first thought, since I wouldn't be running hot air in to the turbo, and wouldn't require two IC's. So it's either two smaller IC's or one large one. I'll play this by ear as I go. Space and placement may dictate this design.
Of course, this concept isn’t new or different by any means at all. Lancia had a similar setup in their AWD Mid Engine Deltas and were banned from the races for having too much power. I believe a few other manufacturers dabbled with this concept as well, but I haven’t dug that deep in to them. Honestly, the Lancia engine is what originally spawned this idea in my head. That and I saw some Skyline with it YEARS ago. I was fascinated from that point on. That and muh boy DuncMan brought it up in conversation again one day. It almost seemed fait for me to try this…
“Why use an 1.8 8v G60 as your baseline.”
Simple, the engine was free, and readily available. That and I figured a VR6 is much heavier, less ground clearance, and I didn’t get one for free. Don’t get me wrong, the VR6 is hella sexy sounding, and backs a huge punch in the pants, but I’m going to stick with the smaller engine to start. It was suggested to me by CanaryRadoG60 (not sure his vortex name), on the Strictly European Autosport forums to go with a 16v conversion for extra flow. Thanks for the advice mate, I’m going to look in to acquiring the parts.
Asking for a handout:
Now, I'd like to pick the brains of anyone who wishes to support my cause. If you have ANY input good or bad, please send it my way. Criticism, constructive or not, will give me something to work with. The whole point of this project is to attempt to do something "different", something hard to do. Hell, I may even attempt to find seal and hose kits for this to take E85. The thought of a green performance car had crossed my mind.
The Scientific Method Who remembers this from school?
================================================
Problem
What turbo to use? I’m a bit new to the forced induction world, and don’t know the reviews and names of all the good turbo systems out there. I learn fast thought.
Hypothesis:
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
Stock G60 ECU re-chipping/reprogramming, MegaSquirt, other piggyback system, or standalone?
Hypothesis:
The ECU that came with this engine is from an automatic setup. I’m assuming this will work fine, but I wonder what using an auto ECU will do when running a manual. I assume the only difference is the auto ECU has kick-down control. Speaking of which, I need to sell that tranny soonish.
Advice from others
From CanaryRadoG60 on the Strictly European Autosport forums
snstuning.com <---sam knows his **** when it comes to all digi set-ups sam might have some info on the set-up you are looking to tackle. he might have tried and or thought of this one as well. sam might be difficult to get ahold of, but he responds well to IM on the vortex. look up his screen name.
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
Speaking of trannies... I also don't plan on converting the car to run the hydraulic tranny that mates with the G60, I planned on rebuilding and using my solid shift bunny tranny.
Hypothesis:
Of course I'll look in to changing the internals if I plan on producing an extreme amount of power. The bolt up should be direct as far as I have found otherwise... (Anyone?) I think the last owner of the cabby put a diesel tranny in it by mistake anyway. They said the old one went out on them and they had one put in from another car. Thing is, at around 65mph on the (120mph max) cluster, I'm actually rolling along around 40 something. That coincidently enough is about the same spot as about 45 or near there is on a diesel (85mph max) cluster. Either they put the wrong speedo in, or I have a diesel gearing. I am going to have to crawl under there or wait til I pull the stock motor out to check the stamping. If it is a diesel tranny, I might be able to get away without changing out the gears huh? Thoughts?
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
What about the Control Bypass Valve? [see diagram above] What do I use for that?
Hypothesis:
(order the one from the 1.4 TSI and modify it to work here?) Fabricate my own? How do I control it?
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
What is my boost mapping going to look like for a setup like this?
Is that going to be complicated or just based on overall boost?
Hypothesis:
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Problem
E85
Hypothesis:
Might not work too well… It has been suggested to me that 18psi is the “safest” to run on pump gas, without detonation. E85 might not be able to meet that requirement.
Test & Analysis:
Conclusion:
================================================
Reference Sources
- Here's a pretty good write-up on how the 1.4 TSI works...
- Green Earth Technologies for green motor lubricant and cleaners
- Green Filter USA Lifetime warranty vs. K&N's million mile warranty. Well I know that's a stretch, but meh... K&N also over dips their rubber edge seal, blocking more of the breather area. While most of the Green's I have seen are nicely clean and not spilling over in to the breather area. Just a small OCD thing I noticed.
- What ever happened with these "Green Tires" I wonder?
- Squire's Rear Mount Turbo Systems The external mounting of this system helps to cool the turbo and keep the hot air out of the engine bay. Plus the metal hosing acts as an IC, cooling the air as it passes through the externally cooled piping. This system also reduces turbo lag, almost making my charger setup null.
- VWVortex News Article on the Golf 1.4 TSI with diagrams and specs.
Stuff already acquired...
The Basics:
- The car: 1984 Cabby
- The engine: Stock 1.8 G60 well technically it doesn’t have the charger on it atm, so I guess we will call it a forged 1.8 (to be rebuilt fully and turbo added)
- The wheels: 13" 2-piece Ronal basket weave (don't remember the exact model) Boy, do I need to clean those!
- G60 stock IC
- Working stock A/C (yup I'm going performance and cool - suck it)
Extras acquired:
- GT Grant Mahogany
- New Duckbill (old one has cornering rash)
- Some seemingly custom One-of-a-kind tubular steel bumpers I pulled off this other rabbit I bought cheap in Baltimore
- PIAA HID ballast kit (not sure what I'm going to do with this, since I don't have a housing to use it with properly)
- HELLA OE flat lens headlight housing
- Kamei Factory OE Hood Scoupe (ahhhh fresh cabin air!!!) Used to belong to aKaBigMike, then acquired at Benbuilt4u’s shop. No Burkee, you still can’t have it back!
Planned to acquire:
- Turbo of course (but what kind, what size, blah)
- Roots Charger (the engine I got was just a 60 basically, it didn't have the G-ladder charger with it, just the brackets and everything else.)
- Hosing will more than likely be supplied by Henry's Engineering in Maryland. They are one of the East Coast's Leading manufacturers and resellers of Aeroquip high pressure hosing and fittings. A long time family friend owns the place, another long time family friend works there, as well as my Dad works there... can you say HOOK-UPS!?
- Flowmaster 44 Series Muffler 2.5" for that DEEP tone and high flow. (3" won't fit up and over the rear u-arm, unless I get REALLY creative with the body and cutting some channels.)
- Flowmaster Hushpower II Resonator 2.5" to reduce that rasp and enhanced the 44 Series deep rich sound. (3" won't fit up and over the rear u-arm, unless I get REALLY creative with the body and cutting some channels.)
- Where the hell can I score a syncro/4motion/quattro drive train for this damn thing? Yea, I kind of have dreams to add this to the list as well, but that's a BIG dream. AWD cabby!?- I'll add more as I think of it...
- Thinking about getting air temp sensors/gauges for each section of induction hosing, as well as just inside the intake opening; to monitor air temp as it travels the hosing. This might help me improve the heating issues stated above.
- For live monitoring/car audio control/video and more… BEHOLD Carputer Heaven!
- Mini-ITX Automotive Chassis
- MSI Industrial LX800 Mini-ITX Mainboard – booting OS from [url=http://www.logicsupply.com/products/ts1gcf100i]compact flash – running my custom stripped down Windows XP
- 8” in-dash touch screen
- Vag-Com with USB dongle, always connected and logging to the internal carputer’s 40-pin IDE Flash Module
- If I go with opting to not use the Stock ECU, and use a stand-alone instead, then the carputer will monitor that systems software, and Vag-Com is a moot point.
Thanks to all who have helped so far…
- My wifee, Maux (like faux), for being the awesomestest wifee evar, not nagging about the car, and actually pushing me to get it finished.
- My dad for getting me first interested in vdubs.
- My Brother-in-Law badazzgti88 for his advice and more
- DuncMan for advice
- 2bluejettacoupe for donating many of the parts, and for being and awesome friend
- Cort for being an awesome long time friend as well, and busting my balls with my supposedly stupid idea to build a TSI. Meh, I’ll show you sucka!
- aKaBigMike for first fully introducing me into the vdub tuning realm. He was the first person in VA to flag me down on the road, and is how I made friends in a state I knew very few people. And for making me fix his VRcoupe until 3am on the side of Rt.50 into Ocean City, MD.
- Lil Tee, I didn’t forget about your influence. I don’t know your tex name though.
- turbopumpkin – Man, I don’t know your tex name either, but dayum, you have opened my eyes to some crazy fabricating and ish. I know anything is possible. You better believe I’m going to poke you from time to time on this one. Hope you don’t mind.
OK peeps, pick it apart! Go ahead, I don't mind. Now off to drink my last beer and fall asleep.
Modified by termitesgraffix at 12:01 AM 5-5-2008
Modified by termitesgraffix at 2:06 AM 5-14-2008
