VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner

Yes or Nein? UAW wants Federal EV Tax Credit apply exclusively to US-Built cars...

  • Nein. Das ist a stupid idea.

    Votes: 10 45.5%
  • Yes, UAW is always right. top giving money to Gyna. MAUGA!

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • Neither, but this is how Federal EV tax credit should be distributed (tell us)

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • How about NO government handouts for science fiction compliance cars that nobody wants

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sin transmisión manual, sin cuidado

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • What does Uber Wagon think?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • BAN HAWK AND UBER WAGON

    Votes: 8 36.4%
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
X2 M35i, Audi e-Tron, Toyota Corolla
Joined
·
16,280 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
88062


UAW wants EV tax incentives revised to require U.S. assembly
-The current $7,500 tax incentive does not require EVs to be made in the United States.

WASHINGTON -- The UAW said Friday it wants tax incentives for electric vehicles revised to require U.S. assembly for those vehicles to qualify.
The current $7,500 tax incentive does not require EVs to be made in the United States. "The UAW is working with the Biden administration and Congress to make sure that the final legislation extending electric vehicle subsidies is clear that those investments subsidize the jobs of U.S. workers," said UAW Vice President Terry Dittes.
General Motors announced Thursday it would invest $1 billion in its Mexico operations and begin building EVs there in 2023.

Rep. Debbie Dingell, a Michigan Democrat, said "electric vehicles must be built here in America by the finest workforce in the world – the American worker. Not one American dollar should support our own jobs being shipped off to Mexico."
The White House did not immediately comment Friday, but President Joe Biden has called for $174 billion to boost U.S. EV production, sales and infrastructure, including $100 billion in new consumer rebates.

On Wednesday, Biden told U.S. lawmakers "there's no reason why American workers can’t lead the world in the production of electric vehicles and batteries."
GM responded to the UAW noting it "recently announced nearly 9,000 jobs and more than $9 billion in new electric vehicle or battery cell manufacturing facilities in Michigan, Ohio and Tennessee."
http://a.idio.co/r?a=consume&e=2382...bbbf-42e6-a493-6a86f4eaaf7f&x[idio]=900474099
Last month, the UAW criticized Ford Motor's plan to build a new vehicle in Mexico rather than at an Ohio plant. Ford said in November it was planning to build an additional EV at its plant in Cuautitlan, Mexico, where it builds the Mustang Mach-E.
Automotive News cited a person familiar with the matter saying that Ford had been considering building EVs in Ohio and instead decided to assemble them in Mexico. Ford declined to comment.
GM aims to build two Chevrolet electric SUVs at Ramos Arizpe starting in 2023, according to Sam Fiorani, who tracks future vehicle production for AutoForecast Solutions. GM said it also plans to build batteries and electrical components at Ramos Arizpe.
GM already makes EVs at four locations in the United States and Canada. GM has said it aspires to halt U.S. sales of gasoline-powered passenger vehicles by 2035.
Automotive News
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,928 Posts
Def controversial but I'm for it. Batteries will be the new oil. US should be doing everything it can to be a major player in that space.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ADDvanced

·
Registered
2016 A6, 2014 X3, 1967 Bus, 1963 356
Joined
·
23,024 Posts
In order to vote yes I also have to agree that the UAW is always right? Is this one of those restrictive voting laws I've been hearing about on the television?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
Since the Tesla workforce isn't organized under the UAW, I wonder how much this will really help them out. Only other U.S. maker the EV credit expansion really applies to at the moment is GM.
 

·
Registered
B8 S4, E30 vert, E36 coupé
Joined
·
1,790 Posts
I wish people understood that these dollars are going into consumer bank accounts by offsetting a portion of future tax revenue, not checks cut directly to corporations (except for with leases, I guess that's a valid critique.. BUT...)

Unless you're of the mind that the subsidy just shouldn't exist at all, the fact of the matter is BEVs still have to cost a certain amount based on battery costs, and the only way to get those prices down is to get the sales volume up. Selling cars is easier when they cost less to the end buyer.


I would like to see the full $7500 credit able to be credited forward at least 5 years. Currently if a filer doesn't have the full $7500 in one year's federal tax liability, anything less is 'wasted'. Simplest calcs with only standard deductions applied, as a single filer with no children you have to make over $66,000 gross to 'earn' the full tax credit. Married with 2 kids, gotta be bringing home over $125,000 or else you're losing out on the full value of the credit.

For MOST Americans that might consider purchasing any number of upcoming $35-45,000 (MSRP, pre-credit) mass-market commuter EVs such as the Nissan Arriya, Mach E, id.4, or Ionic 5, those incomes levels to qualify for a single year full-value credit are simultaneously unrealistically high based on national median earnings (childless single individuals are in the low $30,000s.. couples married filing jointly with 2 kids it's barely over $80,000) and unrealistically LOW to support even a 0% 60mo payment on such a vehicle ($600 to $700/mo, give or take, which ends up being anywhere between 10% to over 30% of gross take-home pay).


Yeah, yeah, not everyone should 'deserve' a new car. But everyone should absolutely receive equal treatment under the law... taxes and tax credits included. This UAW **** is a performative 'headline grabbing' demand that panders to a nationalist and uninformed outlook.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,684 Posts
I would like to see the full $7500 credit able to be credited forward at least 5 years. Currently if a filer doesn't have the full $7500 in one year's federal tax liability, anything less is 'wasted'. Simplest calcs with only standard deductions applied, as a single filer with no children you have to make over $66,000 gross to 'earn' the full tax credit. Married with 2 kids, gotta be bringing home over $125,000 or else you're losing out on the full value of the credit.

For MOST Americans that might consider purchasing any number of upcoming $35-45,000 (MSRP, pre-credit) mass-market commuter EVs such as the Nissan Arriya, Mach E, id.4, or Ionic 5, those incomes levels to qualify for a single year full-value credit are simultaneously unrealistically high based on national median earnings (childless single individuals are in the low $30,000s.. couples married filing jointly with 2 kids it's barely over $80,000) and unrealistically LOW to support even a 0% 60mo payment on such a vehicle ($600 to $700/mo, give or take, which ends up being anywhere between 10% to over 30% of gross take-home pay).


Yeah, yeah, not everyone should 'deserve' a new car. But everyone should absolutely receive equal treatment under the law... taxes and tax credits included. This UAW **** is a performative 'headline grabbing' demand that panders to a nationalist and uninformed outlook.

If you can't take full advantage of the tax credit, you weren't really paying that much in taxes anyway. People that make more money pay more taxes and can take advantage of more tax credits. That sounds fair to me.

The new EVs on my radar are the VW ID station wagon thing and a Rivian R1S. The Rivian is MIUSA, but the VW wouldn't be. I leased my e-Golf so the finance company got the credit and passed the savings on to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35,183 Posts
As long as the only rule is that they're assembled in the USA, why not? Mercedes and BMW are huge builders in the US, as are Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai now. This isn't a problem and right now we need all our stimulus money to stay in our own borders, not being sent overseas to foreign powers. If automakers want to qualify for the subsidies, let them build the cars here, as most of them already do anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,141 Posts
I wish people understood that these dollars are going into consumer bank accounts by offsetting a portion of future tax revenue, not checks cut directly to corporations (except for with leases, I guess that's a valid critique.. BUT...)

Unless you're of the mind that the subsidy just shouldn't exist at all, the fact of the matter is BEVs still have to cost a certain amount based on battery costs, and the only way to get those prices down is to get the sales volume up. Selling cars is easier when they cost less to the end buyer.


I would like to see the full $7500 credit able to be credited forward at least 5 years. Currently if a filer doesn't have the full $7500 in one year's federal tax liability, anything less is 'wasted'. Simplest calcs with only standard deductions applied, as a single filer with no children you have to make over $66,000 gross to 'earn' the full tax credit. Married with 2 kids, gotta be bringing home over $125,000 or else you're losing out on the full value of the credit.

For MOST Americans that might consider purchasing any number of upcoming $35-45,000 (MSRP, pre-credit) mass-market commuter EVs such as the Nissan Arriya, Mach E, id.4, or Ionic 5, those incomes levels to qualify for a single year full-value credit are simultaneously unrealistically high based on national median earnings (childless single individuals are in the low $30,000s.. couples married filing jointly with 2 kids it's barely over $80,000) and unrealistically LOW to support even a 0% 60mo payment on such a vehicle ($600 to $700/mo, give or take, which ends up being anywhere between 10% to over 30% of gross take-home pay).


Yeah, yeah, not everyone should 'deserve' a new car. But everyone should absolutely receive equal treatment under the law... taxes and tax credits included. This UAW **** is a performative 'headline grabbing' demand that panders to a nationalist and uninformed outlook.
I partially agree. I like the idea of either making the tax credit refundable or letting it carry over. Ultimately we're saying as a country that it's worth X amount of money to have someone choose a new EV, so that should apply equally. I don't have a problem with this only applying to EVs assembled in the US. There should be incentive to build cars here.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,928 Posts
I wish people understood that these dollars are going into consumer bank accounts by offsetting a portion of future tax revenue, not checks cut directly to corporations (except for with leases, I guess that's a valid critique.. BUT...)

Unless you're of the mind that the subsidy just shouldn't exist at all, the fact of the matter is BEVs still have to cost a certain amount based on battery costs, and the only way to get those prices down is to get the sales volume up. Selling cars is easier when they cost less to the end buyer.


I would like to see the full $7500 credit able to be credited forward at least 5 years. Currently if a filer doesn't have the full $7500 in one year's federal tax liability, anything less is 'wasted'. Simplest calcs with only standard deductions applied, as a single filer with no children you have to make over $66,000 gross to 'earn' the full tax credit. Married with 2 kids, gotta be bringing home over $125,000 or else you're losing out on the full value of the credit.

For MOST Americans that might consider purchasing any number of upcoming $35-45,000 (MSRP, pre-credit) mass-market commuter EVs such as the Nissan Arriya, Mach E, id.4, or Ionic 5, those incomes levels to qualify for a single year full-value credit are simultaneously unrealistically high based on national median earnings (childless single individuals are in the low $30,000s.. couples married filing jointly with 2 kids it's barely over $80,000) and unrealistically LOW to support even a 0% 60mo payment on such a vehicle ($600 to $700/mo, give or take, which ends up being anywhere between 10% to over 30% of gross take-home pay).


Yeah, yeah, not everyone should 'deserve' a new car. But everyone should absolutely receive equal treatment under the law... taxes and tax credits included. This UAW **** is a performative 'headline grabbing' demand that panders to a nationalist and uninformed outlook.
Households making less than $66K/yr probably aren't buying $30-40K cars in the first place, or at least they shouldn't be in most cases.

Much easier and more logical to shift actual new car buyers (whose incomes are generally well above the median) into EVs than to try and make already expensive EVs affordable for everybody. I think/hope the big catalyst will be solid state batteries which seem like they will be commercially available around 2025.
 

·
Registered
X2 M35i, Audi e-Tron, Toyota Corolla
Joined
·
16,280 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
In order to vote yes I also have to agree that the UAW is always right? Is this one of those restrictive voting laws I've been hearing about on the television?
Yup. MUAWGA or nuthin'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,172 Posts
If you can't take full advantage of the tax credit, you weren't really paying that much in taxes anyway. People that make more money pay more taxes and can take advantage of more tax credits. That sounds fair to me.
When I bought both my Volt and ELR I purposely dipped into retirement accounts to trigger taxes so I could wash them away at the maximum credit. Tossed the remainder into a ROTH.

I'd back it if 100% of the car AND materials were designed and created in the USA. Not assorted parts sourced from all over and just assembled.

Chevy Bolt EV, which is assembled in Michigan, has only 26% US/Canadian content

Even the best the Tesla Model 3 is 50% of the parts are from US/Canada, and 25% from Mexico on the monroney sticker.

Every other hybrid or PHEV ( Nissan, BMW, KIA ) is >50% Korean content because of the LG cells, GM included.

VW id.4 is 1% us parts. 46% China, 39% German. so whatever I'd settle for only giving the credits to Tesla, again, or you know play the game fair.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47,328 Posts
I wish people understood that these dollars are going into consumer bank accounts by offsetting a portion of future tax revenue, not checks cut directly to corporations (except for with leases, I guess that's a valid critique.. BUT...)

Unless you're of the mind that the subsidy just shouldn't exist at all, the fact of the matter is BEVs still have to cost a certain amount based on battery costs, and the only way to get those prices down is to get the sales volume up. Selling cars is easier when they cost less to the end buyer.


I would like to see the full $7500 credit able to be credited forward at least 5 years. Currently if a filer doesn't have the full $7500 in one year's federal tax liability, anything less is 'wasted'. Simplest calcs with only standard deductions applied, as a single filer with no children you have to make over $66,000 gross to 'earn' the full tax credit. Married with 2 kids, gotta be bringing home over $125,000 or else you're losing out on the full value of the credit.

For MOST Americans that might consider purchasing any number of upcoming $35-45,000 (MSRP, pre-credit) mass-market commuter EVs such as the Nissan Arriya, Mach E, id.4, or Ionic 5, those incomes levels to qualify for a single year full-value credit are simultaneously unrealistically high based on national median earnings (childless single individuals are in the low $30,000s.. couples married filing jointly with 2 kids it's barely over $80,000) and unrealistically LOW to support even a 0% 60mo payment on such a vehicle ($600 to $700/mo, give or take, which ends up being anywhere between 10% to over 30% of gross take-home pay).


Yeah, yeah, not everyone should 'deserve' a new car. But everyone should absolutely receive equal treatment under the law... taxes and tax credits included. This UAW **** is a performative 'headline grabbing' demand that panders to a nationalist and uninformed outlook.
The dealer I bought my Bolt (as well as my son's Volt and Bolt) from would take title to a fleet of Bolts, use them as loaners for 3000 miles, then sell them at a discounted price including the full tax credit. This way customers who might not be able to take full advantage of the tax credit got it immediately off the top. Of course, eventually that deal went away as GM's sold enough EVs to take away the tax credit on their vehicles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
845 Posts
Since the Tesla workforce isn't organized under the UAW, I wonder how much this will really help them out. Only other U.S. maker the EV credit expansion really applies to at the moment is GM.
VW TN. will be doing ID4, keep the UAW away, it's the reason there are no succesful U.S. car makers, all the successful ones are south, non UAW, Detroit is UAW, look at it, oy vey. Le Jeep, is not a U.S, car maker either
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,735 Posts
When I bought both my Volt and ELR I purposely dipped into retirement accounts to trigger taxes so I could wash them away at the maximum credit. Tossed the remainder into a ROTH.

I'd back it if 100% of the car AND materials were designed and created in the USA. Not assorted parts sourced from all over and just assembled.

Chevy Bolt EV, which is assembled in Michigan, has only 26% US/Canadian content

Even the best the Tesla Model 3 is 50% of the parts are from US/Canada, and 25% from Mexico on the monroney sticker.

Every other hybrid or PHEV ( Nissan, BMW, KIA ) is >50% Korean content because of the LG cells, GM included.

VW id.4 is 1% us parts. 46% China, 39% German. so whatever I'd settle for only giving the credits to Tesla, again, or you know play the game fair.
Why is it that US and Canadian content is always lumped together, unlike any other country? Did Canada become a state without anyone knowing?

26 % US/Canada content could be 25 % Canada and 1 % US.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,684 Posts
I'd back it if 100% of the car AND materials were designed and created in the USA. Not assorted parts sourced from all over and just assembled.
That sounds great! Are you willing to pay 6 figures for something like a Chevy Sonic? Because that's how much it will cost to support US labor rates for things like small electronic components, seats, wiring, and all the thousands of other components that come from low cost countries in Asia and Mexico. Oh, never mind the fact that we don't actually have the capability to make a lot of that stuff here anyway so someone will have to pay for all those new factories. Are you, as a consumer, willing to pay the increased prices necessary to fund all of that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
That sounds great! Are you willing to pay 6 figures for something like a Chevy Sonic? Because that's how much it will cost to support US labor rates for things like small electronic components, seats, wiring, and all the thousands of other components that come from low cost countries in Asia and Mexico. Oh, never mind the fact that we don't actually have the capability to make a lot of that stuff here anyway so someone will have to pay for all those new factories. Are you, as a consumer, willing to pay the increased prices necessary to fund all of that?
It’s not just a question of costs. For some of those items, there simply isn’t manufacturing capacity in the U.S. Even if you tried to add it, the supply chains would be a total mess.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top