Muhahaha N2O part 2

1481 Views 18 Replies 7 Participants Last post by gearhead455, Feb 18, 2002

gearhead455

Discussion Starter · Feb 11, 2002

Pic's of the installed foggers.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/gearhead455/vwp?.dir=/N2O+Fogger&.dnm=N2O+4+fogger.jpg&.src

h&.view=t&.hires=t
The problem I now face is regulating 70+ PSI to 40 PSI. I have not seen any regulators that will regulate 70 to 40 without being a return style. I think if I install a return style regulator on the main system pressure side it will create a large drop across the fuel distributor. Anyone have a suggestion? The best thing I could do I supose was to run a dedicated fuel supply to the gas solonoid, but that is alot of money. I know the CIS pump can flow 80HP more by itself, I just need to get the pressure down low enough where I can use it.
And remember, If you do not have a good grasp of how N2O works than you should leave the "your going to blow yourself up" comments to when you are watching Fast and the Furious with your freinds. I however believe that if I trash my engine it's my own fault, not the N2O. Besides, replacing pistons is not a big deal to me anymore.

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1 - 19 of 19 Posts

ABA Scirocco

· #2 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

Any chance you could use an adjustable regulator designed for compressed air? If you made sure the diaphram is made of neoprene it would stand up to the gasoline, I'm not sure how much fuel could flow through it though.

raylomas26

· #3 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

I've never had any experience with high pressure fuel delivery + nitrous oxide, so, what is the reason you can't run the fuel side at 70 psi?

raylomas26

· #4 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (raylomas26)

Oh, duh, that was a no brainer. I looked at the instructions for part number 05150, a similar kit but with only 1 fogger nozzle. I can see what the problem is now. Where does your kit want you to get the fuel from? Is it the banjo fitting where the fuel goes into the fuel distributor?

2035cc16v

· #5 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

In your case I would run a dedicated pump and line. Ive only done a few strait CIS cars and then they were all single foggers but I never had an issue with fuel pressure. have you thought about a bigger solenoid to handle the pressure?

gearhead455

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (raylomas26)

Well, the kit I have is non specific to any system. With a single fogger plate system you can run one larger gas flare jet at 70 PSI and get the correct flow rate. With a four fogger the correct N2O ratio is .024 (N2O) / .018 (Fuel) X4 @ 40-45 PSI = 120HP. The smallest fuel jet is .018 . I did some fluid flow calculation and realised I need a .022 (N2O) / .018 (fuel) X4 @ 30 - 35 PSI = 80HP.
For carb applications the N2O jet and the Fuel Jet are the same ratio. Ex: .024/.024 @ 6.5 PSI = 120 HP. I am thinking that a dedicated N2O low pressure fuel system would be the safest and give me the most flexability.
But it cost $ and adds weight. I want to avoid using this if I can get the FI pressure down low.

gearhead455

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (2035cc16v)

Fuel / N2O ratio is the problem.

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gearhead455

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

After much pondering, I think I can run a "return" style regulator by feeding the fuel return directly through the regulator set at 6.5 PSI (all of the eturn through it). I will run the frequency valve fuel return to the other side of the add on regulator return so it wont mess up my control pressure.
I think this will work because there is 70 PSI available at the return, the fuel will flow like it always has but just through a return (returns all of the fuel but holds 6.5PSI for the N2O) regulator before it heads back to the tank.

ADJ - 3 - 50 PSI unlimited input pressure

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2035cc16v

· #9 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
looks like thats a good solution

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H2oVento

· #10 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

Sounds good, but wouldn't you loose a few PSI because your oem regulator is designed to provide (example) 50 psi through your system... but now adding lines you added a larger volume area at the same psi, so now your at what 47, 46 PSI due to the increased area the fuel can use to go through. or will your oem regulator provide you went a few extra psi to maintain 50 psi. I have only run dry kits.. so this is very intresting.. as the thought of a dual stage wet kit may be comming down the road.

gearhead455

Discussion Starter · #11 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (H2oVento)

quote:[HR][/HR]Sounds good, but wouldn't you loose a few PSI because your oem regulator is designed to provide (example) 50 psi through your system... but now adding lines you added a larger volume area at the same psi, so now your at what 47, 46 PSI due to the increased area the fuel can use to go through. or will your oem regulator provide you went a few extra psi to maintain 50 psi. I have only run dry kits.. so this is very intresting.. as the thought of a dual stage wet kit may be comming down the road. [HR][/HR]

What I am trying to do is have a low pressure fuel supply (6.5 PSI) for the N2O and run the low pressure (bigger) Fuel jets sizes. The fuel jet to N2O ratio is 1:1 at 6.5 PSI, this would give me more tunning flexability because I can't get smaller fuel jets (.018) for high pressure @ 80HP.
In theory, if the return line is blocked it would produce system pressure on the return (100 PSI). So if I put the return fuel through a seperate return style regulator set at 6.5PSI. It will supply 6.5 PSI to the gas solonoid and return the rest of the fuel to the tank. The after affect of this is there would 6.5 PSI restriction in the fuel return at the fuel distributor. Since there will be a very high pressure working against a very low 6.5, I don't think it will affect the internal pressures as long as I rout the frequency valve return around the restriction.
Lots of test and tune pressure checks and Fuel solonoid flow / pressure test activations (out of the manifold) have to take place before I am satisfied.

[Modified by gearhead455, 7:31 PM 2-11-2002]

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raylomas26

· #12 · Feb 11, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

The thing that I find annoying about Nitrous Oxide Systems advertising is that they list a "wet" type kit for CIS mechanical systems in with the "dry" kits in their catalog. You have to read the fine print to discover this. Second, in the instructions, they show a diagram of a CIS type system, show where you have to drill out the banjo fitting for the fuel enrichment with a small note by it that says "35-45 psi req'd", nowhere in the instructions do they say you're going to have to use a fuel pressure regulator. I'll bet the instructions for the kit I want to get are similar to the ones in Gearhead455's fogger kit. Didn't they try it on a CIS system to make sure their design works? A majority of CIS systems are VW. VW would be the most likely candidate for using their part # 05150, you would think they would be more accurate and clear in their instructions and in the advertising. NOS is pissin' me off..........seriously thinking "turbo" now..........
UGH! Just fired off a note to NOS tech assistance. It pertains to the kit I want, but any info I get I'll let you know about incase it would be useful

[Modified by raylomas26, 10:55 PM 2-11-2002]

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riotbomb

· #13 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

I run my single shot wet NX kit at 82 psi....works great

gearhead455

Discussion Starter · #14 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (riotbomb)

quote:[HR][/HR]I run my single shot wet NX kit at 82 psi....works great[HR][/HR]

4 fogger is different than a single, I wish it was that easy.

gearhead455

Discussion Starter · #15 · Feb 12, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (raylomas26)

I agree, NOS systems are frustrating in the sense that most systems they sell are derived from carbed V8 stuff. There 4 cylinder applications are slapped together with little customization to any one system. NX systems are much easer to install and understand. On the other hand, I like the challenge of "engineering" the 4 fogger system myself to meet my needs, It guarantees that what I build is one of a kind. I spent about 3 weeks studying N2O theory and math before I started. Bought many books and talked to many people.

Vwsport.com

· #16 · Feb 15, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

just buy the regulator that NOS sells, I got one when I was out there at their help place in pomona (very nice place, every jet and fitting you need

) it was like $50 and it droped my CIS down to the perfect 40psi.... I used a 16 for fuel and 22 for nos if I am right. I have the numbers at home, I will check them out.
Dan

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gearhead455

Discussion Starter · #17 · Feb 15, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (Vwsport.com)

Read "Muhahaha N2O part 3" . Bypass regulators will not work on CIS injection from the inlet pressure side. It bypasses the pressure aroud the fuel distributor.
16/22 at 40psi? single fogger plate or four nozel?

Vwsport.com

· #18 · Feb 18, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (gearhead455)

Direct port so 4 foggers, 16/22 was the first try I wen't to the track yesterday with 18/24 and I didn't break anything

I only got two runs tho, one the fuel pressure was too high and the bottle pressure was too low, so when I pushed the button it felt like the car hit a wall. however the second run with the bottle warmed up and a little less fuel pressure (35psi) it was cool! the clutch was sliping tho, but it was nice, and the stock heat range on the plugs worked fine! no pinging, my brother said there was some black smoke, so I assume its still a little rich. but that 2.0 16v engine sure is strong.
Dan

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gearhead455

Discussion Starter · #19 · Feb 18, 2002

Re: Muhahaha N2O part 2 (Vwsport.com)

Thanks for the input, this is the kind of information I want to know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

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