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Discussion Starter #1
Long story short, I picked up a project 2004 GTI 1.8t from a friend that broke the timing belt at 97K. Bent valves, so I sent the head out and replaced all the TB guts with OEM stuff - WP, TB, idler, and tensioner. I checked the camshaft key and the crank gear keyway and they were not sheared.

Set everything up including the flywheel mark, car was hard to start but eventually fired up. Let it idle a while, dove it around the block. Seemed to run good, didnt want to push it too hard, because the check engine light had come on. VCDS said 16725 P0341 cam sensor. I swapped sensors with my other 04 and same problem. Wont start on first try, then starts on second with CEL.

I triple checked everything. I was worried my machine shop didnt set the cams right. I pulled the valve cover and set up the exhaust cam dead on, which was perfect with camshaft pulley/crank pulley AND flywheel. I counted 15 rollers. SO, I decide to move the intake cam one tooth. Put it all back together and the engine immediatly spun over freely. I thought, "what the hek"? I dreaded the unbelievable. I checked compression, NOTHING across all four cylinders. Frantically, I pulled it back apart and moved the intake cam back one tooth and rechecked it. Still no compression.

Are you kidding me? Did I just bend all the valves by trying to solve the check engine light? Its amazing how stressful this project has become. Ive was a tech for 15 years before becoming a firefighter. I swore this was set up right. I cant believe I have to tear it down again.Now I fear what will happen if I repair it and try it again??

Any one have any thoughts? This is SOOOO frustrating!!:banghead:
 

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Which way did you move the cam?
 

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I counted 15 rollers. SO, I decide to move the intake cam one tooth.
It's supposed to be 16 rollers.

I forget how many degrees off one roller will put you.
I also forget how many degrees off one tooth will put you.

Sounds like you set your timing off by one roller and one tooth.

I think piston interference can happen after 15'ish degrees of misalignment.

...someone chime in and correct me. I don't feel like looking up the numbers.
 

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When setting the cam timing, it is best to completely ignore the reference arrow on the intake camshaft cap.
Set the exhaust cam so the arrow lines up with the notch then count 16 rollers over. (The 1st roller is the one slightly to the left of the exhaust cam notch) The 16th roller should line up with the notch in the intake cam. Hope this help!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Either way, however I set it up, it was only moved one tooth (one roller). That small amount was enough to bend valves and have no compression in ANY cylinder. Part of my writing this thread is to help anyone who may read this. Don't move anything unless you are ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE, or its gonna be a very expensive, time consuming repair. These engines are not forgiving at all!

I don't have any pics at this time. Its just such a frustrating ordeal. I'm going to have to tear the entire head back off and send it back to the machine shop.

Has anyone ever seen a faulty camshaft chain tensioner cause the 16725 P0341 code? I'm so afraid of having problems a THIRD time that I can't take the chance and will probably change out the cam chain tensioner to be super positive it's not faulty. I'm assuming I'll need another new set of head bolts? They are stretch bolts, correct? One time use?
 

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Arp makes reusable head bolts. The factory bolts are single use items.
 

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How did you torque the crank bolt on after checking the crank gear to see if the keyway had sheared? Did you buy a new bolt? Check it again, it might be loose...
I think you would have had to go to 14 rollers between the two camshaft sprockets to get close to bending valves otherwise...
 

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How did you torque the crank bolt on after checking the crank gear to see if the keyway had sheared? Did you buy a new bolt? Check it again, it might be loose...
I think you would have had to go to 14 rollers between the two camshaft sprockets to get close to bending valves otherwise...
Don't forget he was a roller off PLUS a tooth off
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I hope this photo upload works from flicker: How many rollers do you see?





also the tensioner is lowIt goes up high when I cranked over the engine by hand. Will that affect setting up the cams initially?


 

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Meh... The half pics do nothing..
From the first pic it looks like 15 rollers, not 16.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thats what I thought, so I moved it to 16 and as soon as I turned the engine over, I bent all the valves. Mind you the car was running prior to this, just had the 16725 P0341 code that I could not get rid of no matter what I did. What gives?
 

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You rotate the engine over by hand? Have you verified for sure that the valves were bent?
Here is what it should look like...







 

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Discussion Starter #17
The head is going back to the machine shop next week to be torn down again and see how many bent valves. I just can't imagine moving the intake cam one roller would have done it, but it did. The car was running, just had the CEL I was trying to get rid of after the first cylinder head/bent valve repair. The only thing left to try was lining up the cams at 16 rollers... I thought anyway.

I didn't turn it over by hand after moving the intake cam one roller to the right. I knew as soon as I hit the key I had no compression, the motor was spinning without compression resistance. My compression gauge verified the horrible truth, zero compression in all four cylinders. This car is really stressing me out. I was a Ford Master Tech for ten years, not much I couldn't fix. This thing is a nightmare. I'm actually scared to redo this a third time, I've double and triple checked everything.:banghead:
 

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Have another tech check your work this time
 

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When the timing belt broke the first time you prob either broke the key way on the crank or cam. Just because your marks line up doesn't mean it is actually in timing if something else is spun. Take both gears off and check the key ways.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I checked both the cam gear keyway and the crank keyway. They were both perfect. The only thing I can gather at this point was that I was a tooth off on the crank gear because of the slop in the crank pulley four bolts. Those pulleys can be bolted down and be off a small amount. When I originally replaced the TB, I had made marks on everything, turned the motor over two times by hand and everything lined up perfectly. It wouldn't start on the first crank, only on second crank. It would start and run good, but CEL and hard starting on first tries. Changed the Cam sensor and checked wiring. Same problem, that why I moved the intake cam one roller and then it bent everything AGAIN. No compression in all four cylinders. Holy crap.

Now that the head is off (again), I have verified actual TDC on the flywheel as it has a tiptronic. There was confusion amongst people I asked on what the marks are for a tiptronic vs. a manual. I've located the diamond shaped raised boss that people were referring to now.

Third time is a charm? I PRAY it all works this time around when I build it all back up. I'm getting sick of working on this car. It's like "Christine" or something..:mad:
 
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