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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
navigation calibration?

I seem to recall reading a post on this, but can't find it, so I am re-starting a new one....

The "car" symbol on the nav screen seems to lag the actual position by up to 1/2 block.... when I make turns onto another street, for example, the map will sometimes indicate that I am turning into the block itself (instead of the street that I am on), and about 1/4 mile later, it will mysteriously "shift" the car location back onto the correct street.
I think I read that there is a fix for this... anyone recall?
 

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Re: navigation calibration? (mkla2000)

That problem came up before (on my Phaeton, actually). The cause of the problem was nothing to do with the nav system, it turned out there was an intermittent connection between the vehicle speedsensor input and the nav system.
Have your Phaeton technician do a diagnostic scan of your car, and check to see if there are any fault codes relating to the vehicle speedsensor. In my case, the problem turned out to be caused by a loose connector - all that had to be done to fix it was to just remove and reseat the connector.
Hope that works for you.
Michael
 

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Re: navigation calibration? (mkla2000)

Just a postscript: I note that you live in a big city. If you park underground (meaning, when you start the car up and start moving, the nav system has been unable to get a position fix from the satellite constellation), then the plotting of the vehicle position will be based on dead reckoning and inputs from acoustical gyroscopic accelerometers in the car, as well as inputs from steering wheel position.
The logic of the nav system is such that it assumes you will always be 'on the road' (the Phaeton not being an off-road vehicle), so, if there is a discrepancy between the calculated DR postion and where the streets are on the map, the vehicle position symbol will 'snap to the road on the map'.
It might be that what is happening is that you are starting your trip with no satellite reception, and as a result getting erratic DR until the car gets a good lock on the satellite constellation. It needs 4 satellites (with decent geometry) to define a postion.
So - before heading to your dealership and asking them to check speedsensors, see if the problem happens when you are in a non-urban area (meaning, no 'urban canyons' to block satellite reception). For example, see how the nav system performs after you have parked in a big shopping mall parking lot. In a big mall lot, there will be no tall buildings to block the satellite signals, and no trees either. See if you can establish any correlation between satellite reception and the erratic vehicle position sensor. Be aware that the GPS satellite constellation works on line of sight only (strict line of sight) - you can sometimes have problems on a heavily tree-lined street.
The key issue is whether the car picks up a good position fix from the satellite constellation within the first 30 seconds of operation.
Let me know what you find out.
Michael
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: navigation calibration? (PanEuropean)

I live metro LA area, but my house is actually in a suburb 25 miles from downtown (no high rises) - it seems to go on whenever I drive (and doesn't go away after driving on the open for a while - e.g. on the freeways) - I had ocasions where I actually missed an exit on the freeway because I thought I still had a way to go before hitting it (there were a few off-ramps close together, and based on the map, it looked like I still had some way to go before hitting the desired exit).
I will have the tech take a look at the connections (my car is in for 10K service right now).
Thanks for our reply as always, Michael.
 

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Re: navigation calibration? (mkla2000)

Hi John:
Based on that additional information, it seems unlikely your problems are related to satellite reception. If I was doing the troubleshooting, I would look at these three items, in this sequence:
1) Speedsensor input to nav system
2) Optical databus function from CD reader to nav system
3) GPS antenna function and connection to nav system
The first two are easy to troubleshoot, if there are any problems, the Phaeton will record a fault code that will be present when the Phaeton technician scans the vehicle with a 5051 or 5052 scan tool.
Correct function of the GPS antenna can be visually checked by going to the nav setup page on the infotainment display, and observing the number of satellites that the nav system picks up (and how quickly they are picked up following power-on). If the car is in an unobstructed area with a clear view of the sky, it should pick up at least 8 satellites within 2 minutes of power-on. This is a standard performance specification for a contemporary GPS navigation system, not Phaeton specific.
Michael
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: navigation calibration? (PanEuropean)

not solved yet.... just got a call from the service advisor that the CD Nav reader part that he was waiting arrived - they will replace the unit and see if that takes care of the problem. Keeping fingers crossed.
 

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Re: navigation calibration? (mkla2000)

John:

Ask your dealer to give you a printout of a diagnostic scan for your Phaeton, that shows what fault codes are present in your vehicle. Then, let us know what the fault codes are. All of us can then have a look at them, and see if we can contribute any troubleshooting suggestions from our own experience.

Below is an example of an excerpt of a diagnostic scan, showing fault codes. This is from my own Phaeton. In this particular example, the car is reporting an intermittent problem with the reliability of the connector from the roof control module to the sunroof, and a steady problem with a short circuit in the rear cabin roof light. These two problems were easy to solve - the sunroof connector just needed to be re-seated, and the rear cabin roof light had a small manufacturing defect in it, it was replaced.

My guess is that the diagnostic scan report for your car will show problems with either the connection between the CD reader itself and the infotainment screen (this would indicate a possible problem with the fiber optic cable, maybe something as simple as a connector that is not seated properly on the back of the infotainment system), or, an intermittent speedsensor signal to the infotainment system. Either of these would explain the problems that you are encountering.

Another option is to invite your Phaeton technician to just post the results of the scan here, along with his or her observations, and we can all try to help out, according to our experience.

Michael


Sample of a Diagnostic Scan Report, showing fault codes
 

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Re: navigation calibration? (mkla2000)

For those of you who are having problems with your navigation system "getting lost" - in other words, with the GPS not showing the accurate location of the car:
The cause of that problem is communication errors between the different controllers in the vehicle. The fix to that problem is having your instrument cluster software (controller 17 software) flashed up to the most recent software level, which is xx21 (where xx refers to two numbers, typically 04, that will not change as a result of the update).
Please see the additional information contained in this post: TB: Distortion in the Display Unit in the Instrument Cluster (MFI, or Y24). Get that software update applied to your instrument cluster, and your navigation problems will go away. Don't attempt any troubleshooting or parts replacement related to the navigation system, because the cause of the problem lies in the network communications controller that is part of the instrument cluster, not in the navigation system.
Michael
 

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Re: map drift (aubergine2004)

Not sure why, but one time mine drifted out over a lake... good think it didn't sink. System reboot fixed it for... that turn off, get out, lock up and come back later... works for a lot of things.
 

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Re: map drift (aubergine2004)

There's an area of approximately three city blocks near where I work where the car thinks it's "off road" approx. a mile to the right of where I actually am (albeit going in the same direction). Interestingly, I drove by the other day with the Acura and had the same effect. Perhaps some strong electromagnetic field. In any case, I've never had any drift except for this.
Stefano
 

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Re: map drift (aubergine2004)

I have experienced this twice, once with four golf bags in the trunk. Removing the bags cured the problem.
Second time it seemed to cure itself. I took it to the dealer on one of these occasions and I don't remember them doing anything to resolve it but it went away
 

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Re: map drift (aubergine2004)

Quote, originally posted by aubergine2004 »
Does anyone experience a drift of car location ...and are there remedies?

To answer this question properly, we need to look at what the possible causes of inaccuracies could be. In order of probability, they are:
1) The antenna has a poor view of the satellite constellation.
The antenna for the Phaeton GPS receiver is located on the inner side of the rear window glass, approximately in the middle of the vehicle, about two inches down from the roof. There is an illustration showing the antenna location at this post: Antenna Locations. It is unlikely that anything on the vehicle or attached to the vehicle would block the antenna, unless there was some kind of decal attached to the rear window glass. Driving in 'urban canyons' (streets with high buildings on each side) can result in a loss of satellite reception, but the car will normally cope with this by using dead reckoning - it measures distance travelled by using information from the anti-lock brake system, and yaw (change of heading) by using information from the stability sensor.
The 'worst case' situation would be an obstructed view of the sky right after vehicle start-up, such that the car does not have an accurate position to begin with, and has to use DR right from the get-go. This could happen if you start up in an underground garage, make a few 180 or 360 degree turns to get out of the garage, then emerge onto a street with tall buildings on either side.
It is possible to see how many satellites the system is tracking by looking at the navigation data on the large screen between the two passenger seats. The owner manual explains which page contains this information. The system can track a maximum of 8 satellites, which is more than sufficient. It does not use SBAS (satellite based augmentation services, WAAS in the American implementation, or EGNOS in the European implementation).
If the rear window glass has been replaced on your car, investigate the possibility of antenna problems (loose connection to antenna) first.
2) Early Version Communication Software in the Car
This applies only to MY 2003 and 2004 cars. Two software upgrades are available for these model year cars to solve communication problems within the CAN (Controller Area Network) data bus. These communication problems can result in information not being passed quickly and reliably between the navigation controller (the CD reader) and the rest of the car. One software upgrade is available for the communications hub in the instrument cluster (the instrument cluster upgrade to a software version ending in '21') and that is discussed in great detail here: Instrument Cluster (MFI, or Y24) - How to reset the Display Screen . Another upgrade is available for the navigation CD reader (to software version 0168), that is discussed in great detail here: Navigation System inaccurate, gets lost, does not show correct vehicle position. Both of these upgrades are available from your VW dealer, however, due to the small number of Phaetons in North America, you will probably need to do your own research and explain the problem (and the fix) to your dealer.
3) Degradation of Satellite Reception caused by EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference)
If you drive past a very high powered broadcast station - particularly one that uses frequencies close to those used by the GPS system - you might encounter momentary degradation of GPS signal reception. There are several such locations in the area of the American National Capital region, they are well known to aviators. If you always encounter the same inaccuracy in the same location, this is likely the cause of the problem. Generally speaking, the problem will not extend beyond about a 2 mile radius, and there are relatively few of these areas in the USA. Close proximity to very large electrical installations (e.g. a generating station, a high voltage switching station) can also cause reception problems, but in this case, the problems usually disappear once you get more than 500 feet away. This means you should not even notice the problem unless you start the vehicle up in the parking lot of the electrical installation.
4) Satellite System is intentionally transmitting degraded information
The NAVSTAR satellite constellation (that being the formal name for the GPS system operated by the American military) is capable of providing highly accurate position information, however, that highly accurate position information can be intentionally degraded within very specific areas whenever the operator of the system deems that to be in the best interests of their security. In other words - if you are driving past sensitive military installations or locations that present a national security concern, you may find that the position information broadcast on the civilian signal (what we use) may be intentionally fuzzy.
My guess - for most Phaeton owners - is that the problem will be caused by item 2, software. Have your VW dealer run a diagnostic scan of your vehicle and determine the software version present in controller 17 (instrument cluster) and controller 37 (navigation CD reader), then, read the information in the previously cited discussions that explains how to flash-update this software.
Michael
 

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Re: navigation calibration? (PanEuropean)

Hi Michael,
I reported the NAV position lag to my dealer. They claimed that there was no tech bulletin for the flash-up to rev xx21. They insisted that the units go out of calibration from time to time...and said I needed a GPS recal. I refused the service. I have no faith in Boston VW on this issue.
 

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Re: navigation calibration? (sachverhalte)

Well, let's give the dealer the benefit of the doubt, in the sense that the TB does not specifically mention 'fixing GPS problems' as one of the problems that it solves.
That notwithstanding, there are TWO technical bulletins that may be applicable to your vehicle, they are as follows:
1) TB to flash the instrument cluster software (controller 17) up to a software version number ending in 21. This resolves communications errors across the CAN bus, which can be responsible for a multitude of problems - GPS navigation position errors included. You can find all the information about this TB at this link: TB: Distortion in the Display Unit in the Instrument Cluster (MFI, or Y24)
2) TB to update the software in the navigation controller (controller 37) and in the front display and control panel (controller 07). Be sure to read this entire thread very carefully - you have to match the software to the hardware version of the J523 (big front display) that is installed in your car. TB 90-07-01 "Clock Runs Too Slow" (Was: TB 90-05-05)
Michael
 

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gps antenna problem

Hi

I am having problems with my navigation and the vag com indicates the following:





Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 A
Component: NAVIGATION 0147
Coding: 0400000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

1 Fault Found:
00862 - Antenna for GPS Navigation (R50/R52)
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 B
Component: Dachmodul 0605
Coding: 0000047
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000

2 Faults Found:
00220 - Connection to Sunroof
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00222 - Connection to Rain Sensor
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My question is: Can you give some details about how i could reseat the sunroof connection which you said was easy to do ( earlier in thread)... plus some ideas about how to fix the gps connection? Aslo, do you think that these two issues may be related?

Thanks, Paul
 

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Navigation/Map unresponsive in a 2004

Hi all,
I'm less than a week into ownership so I'm still learning.
Between last night and this morning I've had some unresponsiveness problems with the navigation.
The infotainment system has even rebooted a couple of times. The navigation would do a variety of things and continually changed it's behavior. Sometimes certain soft keys would not function, when selecting the "map" hard key the unit would automatically go back to nav. I got messages several times in German and English that the "navigation" wasn't available.
I shut the car down completely twice on the side of the road but may not have let the navigation CD reader go all the way off (of course it did overnight), nothing helped including using "reset" and switching CDs.
I shut down at the hockey rink (son's game), let everything shut down including the nav CD reader and everything returned to normal ops.
Was the Phaeton just displaying its ability to self-heal that I've been reading so much about here?;)
Any other ideas?
I'll put it on the Vag-Com when I get home to check for codes.
Thanks,
John
 
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