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I have a question.... how were these tested and compared to other coilpacks, including stock and R8? Here's why I ask the question... I received an email from HS tuning today advertising these, with the same information, almost verbatim, including the statement that the R8 coilpacks are no better than stock. Here's the problem I have with this - in several forums, including this one, HS Tuning made the following statement in the past:


For those of you looking for more technical data on these coil packs, here is what we've found so far with our bench ( oscilloscope ) testing:

1) These coils can be used on your FSI/TSI engine at ANY level of modification. They function just as well on a dead stock car as a highly modified one.

2) They are NOT the same coils with red housings. The secondary circuit on the R8 coils has a higher resistance (more windings) than the stock coils. In fact the secondary circuits were slightly closer to the Okadas we tested than the secondary of the stock coils.

3) We tested these between 12 and 16 volts (remember if your alternator is charging properly the input will be right around 14). We tested them between 200 and 16,000rpm. The stock coils started to misfire at a much lower rpm than the R8's with a stock spark plug gapped @ .032".

4) The spark was visibly brighter and more intense on the R8's when compared to the stock coils @ every rpm we compared in the stock rev range. We didn't compare anything under 1,000rpm.

5) We were able to open the gap on the plugs much further with the R8's than the stock plug with out misfiring at the same rpm/voltage.

6) Here is what we were finding as an AVERAGE on the secondary circuit for each of the coils.

Stock: 3.3 M ohms
5 cylinder coils: 4.75 M ohms
R8's: 5.31 M ohms
Okadas: 6.2 M ohms



Here's a link to one of several forum posts where they stated this: HSTuning - R8 Coil Pack and NGK Spark Plug Sale

Now, I realize that you (APR) are not responsible for what HS Tuning does or says, which is why I am asking how you tested each of the coils in your graph. I am not accusing APR of doing anything wrong here. I am suspect of HS Tuning based on their previous statements - they heavily implied a higher energy output based on oscilloscope testing and increased resistance in the coil. For a long time, HS tuning was selling R8 coilpacks as an improvement over stock, but now they are saying different, which makes me wonder, are all these coilpack upgrades useless and designed only to make money, or do they actually do something?
 

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I really can't speak for others as I don't know their testing methodology compared to ours. Our own testing found that energy output on the R8 coils was essentially the same as other oem coils, like the MK5/6 GTI/R as an example. There's variance you can see in the graph above, but I'd say that's well within the noise. We have an entire engineering team dedicated to spark deliver / ignition, and related products that mostly operates out of a different facility than the APR HQ in Alabama. I'll be working with them to do a bit more of a deep dive into the ignition world to get a little bit better info.
I understand, but what I am asking is how did APR conduct the test? When you say "our own testing" is that APR, or MSD since both companies are now owned by Holley? And if it is MSD, can we get more information on how they conducted the test? Any response is appreciated, thanks.
 

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Seems like the idea here is that they want you to buy coils because they say APR on them. The chart itself doesn't really tell you anything. Energy output.... as a function of what? The chart shows energy output in "mJ", which I'm assuming is mega-Joules, although the correct annotation is "MJ" so my assumption may or may not be correct. I'm also having a hard time figuring out why they didn't just list the watt output, since watts measure power. This would be an expression of energy output per unit of time, and is more readily understood. It's also what the graph looks like it's trying to convey, but again, I'm making assumptions. So again, I'd like to know how the test was conducted, and what the actual power output is, as well as how this will deliver a better / stronger spark regardless of the spark plug I put in (assuming proper type and gap for the engine).

Lastly, the coil itself is an inductor. It stores energy drawn from the battery. Because of the design, regardless of what is done, the draw is about 2A continuous from the battery. The release is limited based on the amount of time there is to produce a spark for the combustion cycle. It's going to be roughly limited to 24W. The coil draws, stores, and releases in milliseconds. Unless there's proof beyond the problematic chart presented, this does nothing for you or your car.

That said, I'm completely open to being proven wrong. If there's definitive proof that these things can draw, store, and release more energy than another coil, I'm all for it. But please, don't show me a graph that doesn't actually prove anything. Show me the tests. Projectfarm on youtube has a good blueprint for how to test these types of claims. Show me something like that, where there's actual controls implemented and a test that proves these things do something. In fact, I'm going to submit this to project farm as an idea for a new video.

TL;DR - Don't waste your money unless there's some evidence.
 

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Pretty sure it's millijoules, coils are always rated in millijoules as far as I've seen. If spark coils could produce 50+ megajoules pretty sure you could then just drive the car with them...powering a motor, without an engine, lol. Of course even if they were capable of that kind of output would be unpossible when powered from a 12V car battery due to conservation of energy (can't have more power out than in) and all that, but just sayin'.

Milli to mega is like 9 orders of magnitude, or a multiplier of one billion--that's one incredible amount of energy difference.

But really what we need is one point twenty one jiggawatts...for obvious reasons. Then just go back in time and have a negative 0-60 time or well 0-88 time 😁
The graph indicates mJ, which is millijoule.
Okay, millijoule. So if we convert millijoules to watt-seconds, you're saying that the APR coilpack releases approximately 3 thousandths, or 0.003 more watt-seconds. Am I reading that graph right? And if so, how does this translate to better spark and, ultimately, more fuel combustion?
 

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I already know you're claiming more spark. I'm asking for evidence. Maybe you want me to just take your word for it, or maybe you don't want my money. 🤷‍♂️
 

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I've provided evidence. We measured the coils and provided graphs of the output both stock (from various coils) and ours.

On the flip side there are many competitors that simply say: 10% more energy output, and call it a day. No evidence provided.
As I said, several times, I'm asking how the tests were conducted, and what was used to take measurements. Anyone can make a graph. I could take your graph, and then make a line above yours that "demonstrates" that the coils I made have more energy output. The graph is a fancy way of doing what you're accusing your competitors of (although I'm not sure who that is, because your competitors in this case are OEM). I also provided information that showed that tests were done previously by an APR dealer, before you offered these, that demonstrated that the R8 coilpacks provide more energy. Now they are saying something different. The only change is that APR now sells a version, and the other company is an official APR dealer.

Again, I'm open to being proven wrong. But a graph doesn't prove that these do anything. It proves that you made a graph that says "our coils have 10% more energy output" and called it a day.

Again, how does this translate to more spark? Can I use any spark plug and get the same result?
 

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I understand, but what I am asking is how did APR conduct the test? When you say "our own testing" is that APR, or MSD since both companies are now owned by Holley? And if it is MSD, can we get more information on how they conducted the test? Any response is appreciated, thanks.
Ignition coils are relatively new to the APR brand. We’ve only been in the game for a few years now, and have only a couple hundred thousand units under our belt, so far. But what you may not be aware of is we own around 70 different brands, some of which have been in the ignition game since the beginning (mostly on the domestic side). So decades of ignition coil creation and millions sold. To get into the market we had to know how to make ignition coils and that means having advanced testing equipment so we could measure the factory units and then improve upon them. I don’t know how others have tested coils, but since we own brands that physically made coils for decades, we had to own equipment to test output. Simply put engineering uses that equipment to test the coils, define what they want to improve, and then retest and present the data for the product specs.

If you're interested in seeing some of those brands, feel free to have a look: Holley - Family of Brands
I'm aware that APR is owned by Holley, who owns MSD, thanks.
 

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APR, Holley, MSD, etc are just brands. Our parent company bought the Holley group of brands years back, and then when public. Resources and employees are share across all the brands we own.
The semantics over sentinel capital isn't really important here. I'm asking, legitimately, how were these tested and how does the test of the coil actually equate to stronger spark? If you don't know, just say you don't know, and maybe you'll get back to us.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm simply saying that you haven't actually provided evidence that these coils do what you claim. I really am interested in this, but I don't want to spend money on something that provides no noticeable gains. A graph was made, but it doesn't answer my questions about how tests or research were conducted. Another reason that I'm skeptical is that you haven't recommended an increase in plug gap due to the stronger spark these supposedly create, since that larger gap would result in a larger initial flame kernel at the start of combustion (leading to a better burn of the A/F mixture and more power).

To make my point, I also made a graph. Since graphs are proof now, my custom coils that I made in my garage have the strongest output. See below:


Rectangle Slope Font Plot Parallel
 
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